Casey Returned to the Disposal Site - Theories

[AZlawyer]

:twocents: RE: post-midnight calls. Capt Obvious here...(Insert theme music)

2 observations, neither of them ground-breaking:


Cindy was on vacation this week & the "story" for this period was Casey in J-ville w/ JH, right? So:

1) The timing of these post-midnight calls is INconsistent w/ I-wanna-talk-to-Caylee motive.

2) If Casey's story was that she was, "working an event", the timing of these calls might fit w/ Cindy abiding by a Casey plea of, "I'm busy! Mom. Let's talk after I get off work" But, IIRC, Casey wasnKt claiming that she was working.

Any clues in the J-ville alibi that would explain this timing on 2 nights?

The alibi given by Casey actually changed during this time period, according to Cindy's FBI interview. If you'll recall, Zanny's tragic accident was on June 23rd, after which Casey and Zanny went to the hospital (in Tampa I think) and Juliet took Caylee and Annabelle back to the hotel. On the 26th, Zanny was released from the hospital and Jennifer had flown in to Tampa also. The whole group was staying at the hotel.

Cindy says that, on the afternoon of June 27th, Casey told her they were all back in Orlando for a "meeting"--maybe Cindy had seen the car and asked for an explanation, as suggested by one poster above??--and Jeff was in Orlando as well. Casey, Zanny, Caylee, and Jeff (and who knows which kids and roommates) stayed at the Hard Rock in Orlando until June 30.

Cindy says Casey told her that she (Casey) was going to come home on the 30th, and Jennifer was going to take all the kids to Zanny's place, because Zanny, poor thing, couldn't lift the kids because of her pain from the accident.

Cindy then says "George never saw her come home." :waitasec: But Cindy's the one who had the day off June 30. George should have been working 3-11 pm that day (his last day at that job). So Cindy expected George to see Casey come home sometime before 3 pm while Cindy was, for some reason, not home?

FROM JUNE 30 TO JULY 3, Cindy (allegedly) believed that Casey and Caylee were staying at Zanny's place (in Orlando). ON JULY 3, Casey "confessed" that they had really been in Jacksonville with Jeff and Zachary since June 30.

So Cindy didn't know about the Jacksonville alibi until July 3.

 

[AZlawyer]

Does anyone think KC's J.C. Penney purchase on Monday June 30 could have been a reason for KC to revisit Suburban?

Do you have a link to the purchases? I seem to recall there was a July 1 purchase that I thought might have been the manicure, and there was one purchase for which Amy showed up on video with Casey--but I can't remember if that was the same day.

JC Penney purchases from LE chart:

June 27 2:57 pm--Casey used Cindy's credit card to purchase clothes ($84.00). Tony was with her.

June 30 6:09 pm--Casey used Cindy's credit card ($73.40). Nature of purchase not noted in the chart. Casey is alone in the video.

July 1 4:16 pm--Casey used Cindy's credit card ($31.93). Nature of purchase not noted in the chart. Amy was with her. I thought (from the amount and the date) that this would have been the manicure, but IIRC Amy did not indicate that she accompanied Casey for the manicure.



BTW, the nightmares, according to Tony, were after July 5 when he returned from New York. But of course, she could have been having nightmares while he was out of town (June 30-July 5?) as well.

 

[TallyHo]

Add'l food for thought...

Looking at this "revisiting the disposal site" aspect opens up some interesting areas to explore further too.

For example...

1) My curiosity in the gnat's-arse details of the 7/2, 4:50AM, 14min call with Ryan is through the roof right now. And because LE is years ahead of us on all this now post-disposal discovery in 12/08...

2) ...it leads me to believe strongly that LE drilled deeeeeply into this event w/ Ryan meaning that there just HASTA' :snooty: be an unreleased interview w/ him that we haven't seen yet :woohoo: ...

C)...which leads me to believe there are other aspects (e.g. evidence) specifically related to a return visit to the disposal site that we also haven't seen yet.

What can I say? :doh: I'm easily led

I think there may be a clue as to the nature of that phone call in Ryan's interview on 7/30. He states that he spoke with her about a week and a half before Caylee was reported missing", which would put it squarely within the right time frame to be "that" call. He doesn't mention that she called him so early in the morning, but what he does say is that she was confessing her drug use to him (her words - "pot and whatever else is around"). SHe was apologetic to him about it. If that was the 4:00 in morning call from the near the disposal site, do you think she was trying to partially confess some things to him, or to get that off her chest to try and figure out for herself why she did what she did??:waitasec:

Bond - I am 100% with you on thinking that phone call is very important, and just from listening to the interview with him, I think he may end up being on of the most important witnesses in this case. I think he knew Casey and Cindy and the nature of their relationship better than anyone else, possibly better than even Jessie Grund did at that point. Cindy was confiding a lot to Ryan, not so with Jessie.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHW8YPV9xA&NR=1[/ame]

 

[BondJamesBond]

Certainly not outta the question, belle.

 

[BeanE]

My laptop is in the shop and I am on my other one thus I do not have access to my Word document with a timeline and links. I am sure the night sweats and nightmares were noted when Tony got back from New York on July 5th and after. He stated they occured 2 to 4 times.

Thanks, Harmony, my friend :blowkiss:

after Tony came back from NY - after July 5 - maybe two, maybe four times

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1553039...-Taped-Interview-Casey-Anthony-Case-Documents

Page 3 and 4

 

[BeanE]

Apple skull pic was uploaded on June 26.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506774,00.html

 

[BondJamesBond]

If someone is willing to ck the "..Receipts..." Thread in the main forum, I believe a sleuther called JCP and got the price of a mani, calc'd sales tax, etc. IIRC - emphasis on the IIRC . A keyword search for, "mani" on that thread might get it...just don't litigate if I imagined that pls.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Any forensics on either computer specific to this period that might shed some light (e.g. Cindy activity before either flurry call episodes)?

 

[treeseeker]

It may be of interest that the 4:48 -4:50 am pings July 2 were off of a tower directly across the street from the Goldenrod Self Storage.

One of those early am calls did not have a lat/lon - could that indicate that the call was very close to the tower?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thanks treeseeker. Pulled my map from the ping thread over here....it highlights these pings specifically :thumb: I think you'll like what you see

The area shaded in red in the illustration above shows the area pinged @ 4:50AM 7/2 when Casey talked w/ Ryan. The illustration is a little simplified since I only extended the radius 1.5 miles away from the cell towers and the coverage can extend well beyond that range. I also didn't show the tower that is located south of G&C's for simplicity. Need to stress that this isn't conclusive...IOW, Casey could've been anywhere in the shaded area or even slightly beyond it in the same direction as shown...to a limit where other towers would be more likely to pick up & carry her calls.

One observation worth noting is that the disposal site (and Lee's house, and Brackenwood house) are slightly closer to the tower that carried the 4:50AM calls than the tower to the east shown with blue radii. This supports Casey being in the area of Lee's, Brackenwood, and G&C's houses somewhat since had she been closer to the 'blue' tower, it would've been more likely to carry the calls.

I also used Google to check the travel time per Shadow's thinking above. Depending on the route taken, the time to drive from Ricardo & Amy's Glenwood apt. to the Suburban Dr. disposal site ranges between 19-25 minutes. So, with the pings between the two locations being 46 minutes apart (4:02AM last ping @ R&M's & 4:48AM first ping in the sector shown), there was ample time to make the trip.

In context, IMHO, it is highly, highly likely Casey returned to the disposal site 7/2 sometime after 4:30AM.

 

[Intermezzo]

great thread!! my thought is that cindy did see the car at amscot on her way home from work that friday and called casey to get an explanation. if you notice she starts texting people asking for help with gas. she gives her mom whatever explanation as to why the car is there or tells her no ma thats not my car. the second she drops off tony shes at amys getting gas cans but doesnt got to car with amy, waits for her to go to work. goes back to discover that car is gone. oh no! what do i do now?? is it possible that she did store caylee in a container in amys car and thats why she pings back at tonys when he clearly is not there. and the reason she went back for the car was to finish what she started but when car wasnt there had no choice but to use tonys hence washing of tonys car. is it possible that she put caylee in amys car after amy came to see the car on the 19th and the stain in caseys car happened during the transfer of caylee into amys car. wouldnt that fit the 2.6 days of decomp un caseys car. if caylee died in car evening of 16th while she was at blockbuster on the 16th it could fit. i believe the phone calls from and to cindy from the 27th on is explanations from casey as to why the car was there at amscot. how did george know it was there and out of gas??

HI Belle
BBM
Respectfully disagree. I do not believe Cindy saw their white pontiac parked at the Amscot.
Cindy would have been trying real hard to look at the scenery instead of having her eyes on the road.

I have driven and have been stopped at the red light at the intersection of Colonial and Goldenrod (a large and busy intersection) where Amscot is, I do not believe Cindy would have been able to clearly make out that a white car parked on the opposite corner at the furthest spot north on that property would be theirs. And forget about reading the license plate..no way.

Amscot is on Goldenrod facing west, Cindy would have been driving Eastbound on Colonial, the car was parked next to a dumpter along a fence at the northern part of that property while Cindy who was driving eastbound would have been on the opposite southwest corner..from the property that Amscott shares with other businesses.
Also, Colonial at that time was under construction.
I have tried to insert a map of that intersection but I haven't been able to..even though I have done it in the past..:waitasec: :crazy:
Anywho...that is my :twocents: I may be wrong. :blushing:

Agree. Great Thread

 

[Harmony 2]

Possible sleep pattern chart and analysis for comparison purposes:
6/13/08 to 7/16/08

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5410833/Casey-Anthony-possible-sleep-pattern

 

[BeanE]

If someone is willing to ck the "..Receipts..." Thread in the main forum, I believe a sleuther called JCP and got the price of a mani, calc'd sales tax, etc. IIRC - emphasis on the IIRC . A keyword search for, "mani" on that thread might get it...just don't litigate if I imagined that pls.

Bond, I tried, but I'll be darned if I can find anything. Maybe I'm just not thinking of the right keywords.

 

[belle3]

HI Belle
BBM
Respectfully disagree. I do not believe Cindy saw their white pontiac parked at the Amscot.
Cindy would have been trying real hard to look at the scenery instead of having her eyes on the road.

I have driven and have been stopped at the red light at the intersection of Colonial and Goldenrod (a large and busy intersection) where Amscot is, I do not believe Cindy would have been able to clearly make out that a white car parked on the opposite corner at the furthest spot north on that property would be theirs. And forget about reading the license plate..no way.

Amscot is on Goldenrod facing west, Cindy would have been driving Eastbound on Colonial, the car was parked next to a dumpter along a fence at the northern part of that property while Cindy who was driving eastbound would have been on the opposite southwest corner..from the property that Amscott shares with other businesses.
Also, Colonial at that time was under construction.
I have tried to insert a map of that intersection but I haven't been able to..even though I have done it in the past..:waitasec: :crazy:
Anywho...that is my :twocents: I may be wrong. :blushing:

Agree. Great Thread

iirc i thought cindy said at some point that if the car was at amscot she wouldve seen it because she drives past that amscot everyday or something to that effect. not that i couldnt be wrong though, it happens alot. lol!

 

[nostoneunturned]

In the wee hours of the night, when GA/CA are laying in the bed..sleeping in the house where the ghost of Caylee and even Casey must seem as if they are just around the corner,they know....
That is why I feel such disgust when I see them..they knew,they know and yet they milked this tragedy for every penny they could get...
take another cruise Anthony's, take another one for Caylee cause I know it ate Casey up.
sorry to rant..back to topic
I believed she did revisit,but the water was to high and she was unable to locate the bag..
I don't believe she had any idea, that the smell would be so overwhelming. I think she was driving around with Caylee in the back looking for a place to dispose of her body..perhaps in Blanchard Park but there were to many people there ..she returned home and GA confronted her about the gas cans and she almost got caught with Caylee in the back..she left there and stopped along the road and carried Caylee to the disposal sight..
George said she jumped in the car and took off after throwing the cans out of the trunk..I think she was afraid, George might even have smelled the car and in a panic she had to get rid of her quick...and that is why it was so close to the house..
I think she would have hid her body deeper if she had got the chance..but she was so busy having such a good time, with the new boyfriend and new friends... she just hadn't got around to it...
I wish the arrests had not stopped with CA....the usery of Caylee is a crime too.

 

[Jolynna]

If someone is willing to ck the "..Receipts..." Thread in the main forum, I believe a sleuther called JCP and got the price of a mani, calc'd sales tax, etc. IIRC - emphasis on the IIRC . A keyword search for, "mani" on that thread might get it...just don't litigate if I imagined that pls.

I have this link from my notes from way back when: page 1 is Lee's list of Casey's receipts http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/la092308.pdf $31.93 for getting your nails done and the tip sounds right to me.

To my knowledge, whatever item(s) Casey charged from J.C. Penney @ Fashion Square on June 30 for $73.40 has never been released.

 

[Harmony 2]

I don't trust my memory on the timing of Casey's nightmares, etc. If that is the case it would seem to fit w/ some 'reality' to what a revisit to the remains might bring. IIRC, Tony witnessed Casey crying while watching a video of Caylee on the PC when he awoke late this week, but, that's IIRC.

I tend to think Casey wouldn't have wanted to interact w/ the remains. Need to firm up the timing of Casey allegedly washing clothes first-thing in the morning @ Ricardo's. IF that was 7/2 morning immediately after this visit one possibility might be that Casey retrieved some article that was in/near the remains and the decomp got on clothing for which she didn't have a change. IOW...she got back to Rick & Amy's wearing something that had a little decomp on it and decided to toss it in the wash vs. throw it in the trash.

To add to AZ's list of Casey's actions 7/2...actions that might be indicative of a disposal site visit...the last viewing of the nursing home pic of Caylee @ the time of penning Diary of Days may also be a need to remember Caylee as she was vs. as she had possible come very close to witnessing.

Thinking the initial disposal was very, very quick...necessitating a return to retrieve or check for some article that might tie her directly to the scene.

Can't ignore the potential memorial from JCPenney though. Even though we heard Cindy say a WTP was missing. Is there a scenario that might've had Casey purchase a new WTP blanket to place w/ Caylee (sentimentally)?

(bolded and underscored by me)
Re: the WTP blanket

The WTP blanket was sold exclusively at Target and was a discontinued item.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3264687&postcount=20"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Lee's Handwritten List of Receipts from Casey's Purse[/ame]

That single post can be found in this thread:
[ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3264687#post3264687]Lee's Handwritten List of Receipts from Casey's Purse[/ame]

 

[Intermezzo]

iirc i thought cindy said at some point that if the car was at amscot she wouldve seen it because she drives past that amscot everyday or something to that effect. not that i couldnt be wrong though, it happens alot. lol!

Yes, you're right belle3 I also recall Cindy saying that..
And yes she did drive by the intersection where the Amscot is located and in hindsight of course she would say she would have noticed the car...

I just don't see her being able to clearly make out, looking beyond the other parked cars, that a white car parked next to a dumpster at a business on the northeast section of the intersection was theirs., while she was on the opposite side of the intersection heading eastbound.

I've been stopped at a red light at that intersection and I just don't see her clearly being able to identify that car as theirs.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...:twocents::crazy: until it can be proven that I am wrong of course, and then I reserve the right to change my mind :blushing:

 

[JWG]

And recall that KC dumped the car on Friday the 27th just before noon, and it was towed Monday AM the 30th, Cindy's first day of vacation. Thus, Cindy had exactly one chance to "notice" the car - her commute home that Friday afternoon. We will forgive her missing it that one time. :blowkiss:

 

[JWG]

Bond, I tried, but I'll be darned if I can find anything. Maybe I'm just not thinking of the right keywords.

Closest I could find, BeanE, was [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2786811&postcount=285"]this post[/ame] on an old NG thread. Hardly proof. I do sorta recall the post BJB is referring to, but darned if I can find it. :banghead: