Casey's Move-in-w/Amy Plans Explained

[suggie]

Good work JB & TO, I speculate and my speculations are the same. I do think KC used myspace constantly, not hard to find info on anyone that does the same thing. My DD, 20yrs old, is on these sites constantly despite my warnings to ban her!!! :woohoo::woohoo: We are getting somewhere!!

 

[ConcernedMom]

I agree 100% with your thoughts here. She could have had a prepaid phone, or for that matter, a "dummy" phone or whatever they call it these days. My son tells me you can go on the internet and buy phones where you don't have to even have a service contract. I don't know how all that works because I, like most people, have the kind of phone that comes with a bill every month!


AND I APOLOGIZE THAT THIS IS O/T. But there are soooo many threads, they seem to all go off topic at one point or another. It seems counterproductive to start yet another thread.

Yes, absolutely on the phone. I had to buy a prepay phone at Walmart while my husband was in school because we were trying to be cheap and just have a phone when we needed it. This phone has no service contract, you just by minutes cards and add them. The only way they could trace those calls is for her to give them that specific phone number. The phone I got was a Nokia and it did not keep my outgoing calls and it also only kept a small amount of incoming and outgoing calls at any one time. If she had one of these phones, the only way to find out (other than her telling you, ha!) is if she paid with check or cc at a store and the store has that info.

 

[future criminologist]

unless...Casey "knew" ZG but ZG didn't "know" her. I speculated this in another thread - you know how a friend of yours might talk about their friend "Bob" and maybe you have seen a picture of them but never met them, but you hear all about them through your friend? or, maybe you heard through a high school friend how someone else from high school is doing now - they got married, they got divorced, they got plastic surgery, etc. and now you know more about them than they know about you (or you think they know about you). Maybe it was a case of, Casey had "heard" about this ZG person somewhere else and was able to glean other information from her myspace page. People really spill their guts on there.

either way, I think LE needs to go back and re-interview her and ask her who else she would have told about viewing the apt. and also, get more background on her - where did she go to HS? to college? where has she worked? all possible places she could have met Casey and didn't remember.

I do however just have a hard time believing that Casey really put that much planning into all of this...like someone else said, she goes with one thing until it doesn't work for her anymore...then she moves on to another lie. there's no long-term planning with this girl, it's more like survival mode. I just don't think she's smart enough to have all these future "plans" IMO.

 

[ConcernedMom]

Then maybe it was as simple as KC and ZG being in the same leasing office and ZG going out and KC coming in and then seeing the visitor log right after her????

Maybe I'm grasping at staws because no matter what, I still find it hard to chalk the visit by ZG to Sawgrass up to a coincdence. That would have to be impossible odds. So they have to had met by chance somewhere prior. And not a meeting where ZG would remember KC. KC would of course lie and say she didn't know THAT ZG if she were sitting in front of her. Because she is not the nanny, she is an excuse being used by KC.

I don't think it was a coincedence either and I also dont' think she was her nanny. I have a couple theories, but whenever I mention them they get blown off as it being too complicated or too much of a conspiracy. This is definently one of the bigger mysteries surrounding this case (IMO).

 

[ConcernedMom]

unless...Casey "knew" ZG but ZG didn't "know" her. I speculated this in another thread - you know how a friend of yours might talk about their friend "Bob" and maybe you have seen a picture of them but never met them, but you hear all about them through your friend? or, maybe you heard through a high school friend how someone else from high school is doing now - they got married, they got divorced, they got plastic surgery, etc. and now you know more about them than they know about you (or you think they know about you). Maybe it was a case of, Casey had "heard" about this ZG person somewhere else and was able to glean other information from her myspace page. People really spill their guts on there.

either way, I think LE needs to go back and re-interview her and ask her who else she would have told about viewing the apt. and also, get more background on her - where did she go to HS? to college? where has she worked? all possible places she could have met Casey and didn't remember.

I do however just have a hard time believing that Casey really put that much planning into all of this...like someone else said, she goes with one thing until it doesn't work for her anymore...then she moves on to another lie. there's no long-term planning with this girl, it's more like survival mode. I just don't think she's smart enough to have all these future "plans" IMO.

That is why I think someone else is involved and i do agree that she (ZG) may not know KC at all. OR MAYBE just MAYBE ZG is a liar too.....

 

[jeepgirlva]

This is something that has been buggin me for a while...

Does anyone really think that IF this was the actual "ZG" that she would walk in to the police station and say, "Yes officer, I know KC and have taken care of her daughter for her before."

If there was something illegal going on regardless of what it was, involving her and KC, she would still want to remove herself from any association with KC at all I would think. Especially since this case has been very public since day one so it would have been no secrect about what they were questioning her in regards to.

Besides, KC has said many things like "I don't know where Caylee is" and countless other things... 90% of the people following this case do not believe her, so why would we just assume that this ZG would be totally honest? I know that there have been many lies proven that KC has told, but do we know just how much they investigated this ZG person aside from the short Q/A and denying she recognized KC in the pic? She could be just as dishonest as KC is.

The other thing I thought of, a bit off subject though - is what if the blackjack was pre-paid? would they be able to trace that phone? She would more than likely not be switching the SIM card back and forth if that was the case, but so that there was no bill going to anyone's house for that phone and it would be more believable that it was for "work".


Of course, this is all IMO. I do not post with the intent to offend or suggest that anyone else may be incorrect... I guess sometimes I post (rare as it is) in the hopes that something I say will trigger a thought for someone else and so on until something is really discovered that could help find out where Caylee is (alive or not).

The ZG that was looking at the apartment said she didn't know KC and KC also said that she did not know this ZG it was a different ZG...but didn't other friends and family say that she had spoke of Zanny the Nanny prior to Caylee missing..

 

[CaliKid]

KC said she spoke to Zanny. IIRC, nobody else has ever seen Zanny.

 

[ibyoungr]

I just had something pop into my head.

How about while Casey was out searching for apartments, that is where she happened to run into Zenaida - at ANOTHER complex besides Sawgrass - and she just happened to give her a friendly hint that maybe she (ZG) might want to look at apartments at Sawgrass. B-I-N-G-O - there is the connection between KC and ZG. It was probably just a chance meeting. I would be interested to know if LE has followed up to see if KC and ZG visited some of the same apartment complexes.

I think if we can explain away ZG - that whole aspect of this case is completely removed. There is no babysitter, there was no meeting at JB Park or Sawgrass or whatever the story today might be. All of the remaining "believers" that Caylee is alive have nothing to stand on because ZG was just an innocent person who happened to cross paths with KC and has been used in her web of lies.

Could it be so simple that when Casey was getting her "Bella Vida" tattoo around July 2nd that she overheard Zenaida's name at Cast Iron Tattoos? We have already proven that Zenaida has friends/family that work there via the REAL ZG's myspace. Maybe Casey just overheard them talking. I know when I am at a beauty shop it is not hard to overhear other peoples' conversation. There is no ZG that watched Caylee. IMO Casey overheard the name at Cast Iron Tattoos..it stuck in her head and she just happened to use Sawgrass apts because she had a friend that lived there and it was the first apt complex that popped into her mind. Just pure concidence and bad luck for the real ZG that she actually did look at apartments there. Not everything has to tie together.

If Casey would have "ran into" the real ZG while apartment hunting. The real ZG might have said.. " I ran into her while looking at apartments.... but that is all I know about her."

 

[Fairfaux08]

I believe that LE checked out ZG's story well enough to dismiss her. I don't think that particular model of phone is available as a pre-pay.

I contend that you are correct on both points. The total amount of information that LE has on ZG may be one of those "things" that LE is keeping to itself and will only release when they are ready to charge. Plus, from what I seen on the "supposedly real" ZG MY Space page, Casey used this information to build the kidnapping character. The only connection I could not make was how Casey knew that ZG went to Sawgrass to look at that apartment. Could it have been possible that ZG mentioned it in a My Space comment to another My Space friend? In an earlier post (liltigress post #28), the suggestion was made that they had a common acquaintance. It could be possible that there is a Six degrees of separation between actual or My Space acquaintances. Regarding the service for the Samsung Black Jack, the J&R website says that prepaid thru AT&T is not available. CAsey did say it was AT&T in the jail house phone transcripts, did she not? ......I'm starting to get soooo burned out....:crazy:
http://www.jr.com/at-t-wireless/pe/CGR_BLACKJACK/

 

[librarian_mama]

We don't really "know", but, here's my speculation based on the facts...

BTW...June 15th or 16th

*Caylee was setting up to have Amy babysit Caylee @ a new rental [a.k.a. house#1]. She used the 'mini-vacation' 6/10-6/14 to search for house#1.

* On 6/5, Casey sends a Facebook message to Amy all giddy about getting her moved in "by the end of next week" which would be Sat., 6/14.

*Casey's m.o. is to spend nights @ Tony's starting on 6/10 w/o Caylee. Caylee NEVER spent the night @ Tony's, which was different than her arrangement w/ past boyfriend Ricardo - they all 3 shared the same bed. Casey may have thought Caylee's presence would ruin her chances w/ Tony and she wanted to (was) keeping Caylee out of Tony's life @ night until things were set.

All IMHO, of course.

Why do you think that Amy would be up for nightly babysitting? Her lifestyle was no different than Casey's--big on the nightlife, party lifestyle. Was she going to do this for free? If not, who was going to pay her--Casey?

Even if Casey stole an identity, how in the world could she rent a house with the new ID? Generally, stolen identities are used for fast shopping sprees--not to rent a house. The victim would easily and quickly track down the theft--it would appear on a credit report, at least & the perp would be sitting there in the home for LE to pick up.

Also--why would she even need to make up the "mini-vacation" story just to look at houses? She didn't have anything to do all day long--she was unemployed. Why make up that story? She could just say she's "going to work" just like any other day of her life.

 

[Marple]

Cranes Landing Apartments are 8/10 miles from AL's existing apartment. Could a dumpster at those apartments be the one LE may be focusing on? KC was there on June 19th... IF Caylee died on the 15th the smell would have been quite bad by the 19th. This is also approx. 8 days before the car abandoned at Amscot.

Cranes Landing is about three minutes from Sutton Place. Just about one mile.

 

[librarian_mama]

Sorry for the second post, but just remembered this from last night's posting:

If I have this right, it looks like from the verbal & written statements, Caylee was probably with Cindy & George at night until the 16th of June.


All of the family's statements say that they haven't seen Caylee for "a month"--statements made on July 16th.


According to the interviews and written statements of friends, Casey was often out all night and Caylee was at the grandparents' home.

TonE told LE that Casey would often just grab a change of clothes when she spent the night with him; later in June, she moved clothes to his house. Caylee never spent the night at his apt.--even during the dates that prove Caylee was alive--she was with the grandparents.

TonE stated that during the day when he went to class, Casey would leave "to go to work" or run errands, and always be there when he got home. During the day, Cindy & George were not available to watch Caylee, and friends saw Casey with Caylee during the daytime. This would be early to mid June.

Cindy and Lee's written statements definitely state that both Casey AND Caylee have been "M.I.A." for "about a month" on July 16th.

Some of Casey's friends state that in addition to Caylee being with "the nanny," Casey said she was also sometimes with Cindy at night.

She only told TonE (boyfriend) that Caylee was with "the nanny" --TonE states that Casey moved in with him due to tension at home between her parents--George having an affair and Cindy not being able to leave him, etc. etc. He states that Casey did not want Caylee involved with the tension there.

During this time, several friends saw Casey with Caylee during the day/afternoon on different dates. None after the 15th.

It isn't until after Father's Day that the Anthony family does not see or hear from Caylee & Casey. Despite Cindy's statements at the bond hearing that she was in "constant contact" with Casey, Lee's statement makes it clear that Casey was "basically MIA...with Caylee."

 

[AZRiverRat]

Yes, absolutely on the phone. I had to buy a prepay phone at Walmart while my husband was in school because we were trying to be cheap and just have a phone when we needed it. This phone has no service contract, you just by minutes cards and add them. The only way they could trace those calls is for her to give them that specific phone number. The phone I got was a Nokia and it did not keep my outgoing calls and it also only kept a small amount of incoming and outgoing calls at any one time. If she had one of these phones, the only way to find out (other than her telling you, ha!) is if she paid with check or cc at a store and the store has that info.

One of the bad checks that c wrote was to AT&T, and it was an electronic transfer. I saw it somewhere in the docs today...

http://www.ocso.com/Default.aspx?tabid=547

 

[nursebeeme]

Phew! For the first time I think I can finally put the ZG insanity to rest. That seems to fall into place enough to me for now.

It falls into place for me too Tigger...and the reason being is that there is no zg. I just know there has to be some reason she used those names (in that they are somehow known by her...perhaps by several degrees of separation.)

Great catch on the TWO HOUSES Bond! What you are hypothesizing makes a lot of sense to me.

Whenever my mind gets jiggy during this case I go back to what I know about Casey and that is her life is all about her and all about her lifestyle and all about her men. Even in the 400 page document Amy said that Casey was slow to warm to females but all over men. She used poor Amy from the getgo.

Bond...do you really think she was looking for house number one or do you think she could have made that up as well. I do not see her being industrious enough to do anything on her own. I rather think she would have had someone else do it for her (like Jesse). She had no credit in her name and no job. Unless she had lifted another identity to do this I just don't see her house hunting. (imhoo)

 

[nursebeeme]

Then maybe it was as simple as KC and ZG being in the same leasing office and ZG going out and KC coming in and then seeing the visitor log right after her????

Maybe I'm grasping at staws because no matter what, I still find it hard to chalk the visit by ZG to Sawgrass up to a coincdence. That would have to be impossible odds. So they have to had met by chance somewhere prior. And not a meeting where ZG would remember KC. KC would of course lie and say she didn't know THAT ZG if she were sitting in front of her. Because she is not the nanny, she is an excuse being used by KC.

She nor her daughter have ever been seen at Sawgrass apartments. LE canvased there as well.

I also just thought of this!!!!! Remember how Casey has now backtracked and said she never dropped the baby at sawgrass...but now at blanchard park? Well....do you all remember when media asked why doesn't Cindy hang missing posters at sawgrass apartments (this was LOOOONG before her first bond out and a few days after her arrest) and Cindy replied that they don't need to hang them there...it wouldn't help... well that is strange skippy! Who WOULDN'T hang posters up at the place that a child was last seen???????

 

[mandif3]

unless...Casey "knew" ZG but ZG didn't "know" her. I speculated this in another thread - you know how a friend of yours might talk about their friend "Bob" and maybe you have seen a picture of them but never met them, but you hear all about them through your friend? or, maybe you heard through a high school friend how someone else from high school is doing now - they got married, they got divorced, they got plastic surgery, etc. and now you know more about them than they know about you (or you think they know about you). Maybe it was a case of, Casey had "heard" about this ZG person somewhere else and was able to glean other information from her myspace page. People really spill their guts on there.

either way, I think LE needs to go back and re-interview her and ask her who else she would have told about viewing the apt. and also, get more background on her - where did she go to HS? to college? where has she worked? all possible places she could have met Casey and didn't remember.

I do however just have a hard time believing that Casey really put that much planning into all of this...like someone else said, she goes with one thing until it doesn't work for her anymore...then she moves on to another lie. there's no long-term planning with this girl, it's more like survival mode. I just don't think she's smart enough to have all these future "plans" IMO.

Exactly! Maybe all Casey knew was that ZG looked at the sawgrass apartment. By the time it was known that Caylee was gone she could have lived there for all Casey knew (hence the lie). Maybe she wasn't expecting LE to take her to the sawgrass apartment to show them which one. she may have figured if she said ZG at sawgrass that they would find her and arrest her (ZG) from there. ZG probably does not know Casey nor was she aware that Casey knew of her.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Exactly! Maybe all Casey knew was that ZG looked at the sawgrass apartment. By the time it was known that Caylee was gone she could have lived there for all Casey knew (hence the lie). Maybe she wasn't expecting LE to take her to the sawgrass apartment to show them which one. she may have figured if she said ZG at sawgrass that they would find her and arrest her (ZG) from there. ZG probably does not know Casey nor was she aware that Casey knew of her.

Mandif3 & Future C: You've both pretty much sewn this up, IMHO.

FYI...IIRC, the real ZFG's ex-boyfriend, Jonathan, was recently tattoo'd @ Cast Iron. Cast iron was a hangout for Casey for some time (weird, I know) and also where she received her Bella tat 7/2, knew several of the people there, including, IIRC, Dante S. who also lived @ Sawgrass. While I haven't completely connected all those dots, I'd say you've got your arms around the how'd-Casey-get-ZFG-info story.

I've also considered if Casey was looking @ rentals 6/10-6/14 she may have crossed ZFG's path in-person or in an office @ one of the properties.

On a related note, recall that Casey took LE to the Glenwood location 7/16(Ricardo & Amy's) but pointed out the address across the street as having belonged to ZFG at one time. She didn't mention anything about her personal connection to the Glenwood Apt. IIRC, the Sawgrass apts. may be very nearly located to Kio's apt, and, there was another complex LE drove her through 7/16, and they knocked on some doors together w/ no one knowing a ZFG. Sorry, I'm being lazy about looking up source info here, but, if you're interested in re-reading the original arrest affidavit narratives, its in there to feed your inquisitive, sleuthing curiosities! Take this last paragraph with a whole salt-shaker full of salt, 'cause I'm just gettin' too lazy to re-check my facts.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Great catch on the TWO HOUSES Bond! What you are hypothesizing makes a lot of sense to me.

Bond...do you really think she was looking for house number one or do you think she could have made that up as well. I do not see her being industrious enough to do anything on her own. I rather think she would have had someone else do it for her (like Jesse). She had no credit in her name and no job. Unless she had lifted another identity to do this I just don't see her house hunting. (imhoo)

Yes, NurseBee, IMHO, there truly was intent to get house#1. It served Casey's needs to (a) continue her pursuit of Tony, and (b) get out from underneath Cindy's thumb, and (c) have someone else share significant responsiblity for Caylee's care. It all suited Casey's needs and she was stealing money & puttin' the wheels in motion.

 

[OakIceShimmer]

Would it serve any useful purpose (or has it already been done) to contact the Florida or Orange County/Seminole Cty or Orlanda, etc. Real Estate Boards for assistance in tracking down 1) the location of any Open Houses on these dates 2) records of private tours of any available properties on these dates 3) they may not release their records to someone off the street but would to LE. Unless they can be enlisted in the search for Caylee in that way i.e. has any real estate agent in the area seen C & Caylee. I imagine that they would already have come forward with any info but you never know. They could be willing to help.

I look forward to your Posts Mr. Bond; always thought provoking and thoughtful. You always manage to give us another angle to chew on.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Would it serve any useful purpose (or has it already been done) to contact the Florida or Orange County/Seminole Cty or Orlanda, etc. Real Estate Boards for assistance in tracking down 1) the location of any Open Houses on these dates 2) records of private tours of any available properties on these dates 3) they may not release their records to someone off the street but would to LE. Unless they can be enlisted in the search for Caylee in that way i.e. has any real estate agent in the area seen C & Caylee. I imagine that they would already have come forward with any info but you never know. They could be willing to help.

I'll PM you.