Casey's nightmares

[icherish]

Ok, here is what I do not understand.. everyone claims she was sooo into Tony, killed her baby to be with him and all but- she was with other men within the same time frame! I don't think she was as invested in Tony as everyone thinks... he was one of several at the same time, IMO. She was even leading Will on during this time- talking to him on the cell until Tony got off the plane!

I agree. She was definitely a player and Tony was just another poor soul caught up in her game.
I think more than anything, she was realizing just how much Caylee was cramping her style. I don't think she appreciated the rejection (or at least partial rejection) of Tony telling her that Caylee wasn't welcome to hang out and sleep at his place at night. She'd heard as much from Tony R., and there it was again, from Tony L. That said, I don't think she directed anger at either guy for this. Any ill feelings about that were centered around poor little Caylee. If she killed Caylee intentionally, she did it for none other than herself...to be free of her burden and be with whomever she pleased, when ever she pleased.

 

[natsound]

I agree. She was definitely a player and Tony was just another poor soul caught up in her game.
I think more than anything, she was realizing just how much Caylee was cramping her style. I don't think she appreciated the rejection (or at least partial rejection) of Tony telling her that Caylee wasn't welcome to hang out and sleep at his place at night. She'd heard as much from Tony R., and there it was again, from Tony L. That said, I don't think she directed anger at either guy for this. Any ill feelings about that were centered around poor little Caylee. If she killed Caylee intentionally, she did it for none other than herself...to be free of her burden and be with whomever she pleased, when ever she pleased.

There are millions of young mothers who haven't gotten the partying out of their system, and devoting their life to their child is the last thing they want to do. There are so many grandmothers who raise their grandkids because of this. KC just took it to the extreme. She didn't want CA raising Caylee for many reasons, and KC was already a psycho sociopath (I do believe her mental issues declined rapidly in the months before Caylee disappeared).

I can't recall TonE ever stating that he didn't want Caylee at the house. KC probably just assumed that... and SHE didn't want Caylee with her anymore when she was horsing around with her friends.

 

[eg@gm]

Ok, here is what I do not understand.. everyone claims she was sooo into Tony, killed her baby to be with him and all but- she was with other men within the same time frame! I don't think she was as invested in Tony as everyone thinks... he was one of several at the same time, IMO. She was even leading Will on during this time- talking to him on the cell until Tony got off the plane!

I don't think she was all that into him either. She liked the attention from different men.

Also, I think when she was texting Amy and others, when she said she had mommie duties and couldn't go out, I think she was lying. I think she was really out with other friends or other guys and didn't want Amy to know.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Casey have nightmares about Caylee?? Naw, it probably WAS about losing TonE, Casey thinking only of herself as usual... JMO

:clap::clap:

 

[janemundane]

Y'know, cynic that I am ... I just don't buy it one bit. I don't believe for a minute that she had any nightmares. I think she was just sweating like the sick pig she is. Maybe she was running a fever. Her "boyfriend" noticed it and asked her about it. She saw an opportunity to go into drama queen mode and fed him a line about her stressing over their deep "relationship." The woman has no conscious, even when she's unconscious.

 

[cayleesangels]

Not to me! Like I said in my post above, I hope that they get more vivid and as you said worse. I'll go one step further and say that I hope that every time she closes her eyes, she sees what she has done, in slow motion. Unfortunately, I wonder if she has the capacity to feel anything except sorry for herself.

I'm with you Pondering Mind!!! I hope she sees what she has done to that precious baby every time she closes her eyes in slow motion, and that she has nightmares and wakes up in sweats every time she tries to sleep!!!!

 

[Chezhire]

Anybody other than me think those nightmares and cold sweats were about what she did to Caylee or having to handle the body?

I sure do, and if she did what I think she did, I hope they continue for a long, long, long time (ad infinitum, actually.)

 

[4Siamese]

Having nightmares and waking up in cold sweats often occur when an inidvidual is in a state of anxiety and fear. In this case, I think she was afraid of getting caught.

This would be my guess, too.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

But they didn't even know KC was unemployed. Jeez, her father said she left for work that day (the 16th?) with gray dress pants on. They believed her about the imaginary Zani for however long. I really don't think they saw it, or they didn't take it seriously enough. :waitasec:

They CONTINUE to live by the old "don't ask the questions that you don't want the answers to" motto. If the truth doesn't bite them in the heel with enough venom, they swear it was a sand spur and keep on walkin' away from the rattlesnake. I think they KNEW she wasn't employed, but they weren't up for the conflict and just let it go.....like so many other things. If they really believed her employment status she wouldn't have had to fabricate e-mails to herself about work schedules and payroll mishaps. They don't ever take her seriously, they just let her live in her own little world because it is easier to play by KCs rules than try to fight her, especially with Caylee caught in the middle. JMO

 

[Clock's Tickin]

I don't think KC was "in love" with TL. She just seems to need the men in her life to be at that "want you ,need you, can't live without you" level, and she'll keep playin' the field until they are. As soon as the new wears off, it's time to move on. I think this was one fella that wasn't so gaga and it had her fearing she'd lost her touch. She'd invested stolen groceries and housekeeping effort in this one...what a nightmare! It doesn't matter what the guy has to offer...he doesn't have to be all that...he just has to seem interested and play a little hard to get. KC likes the game and she likes winning it-she's just never satisfied with the prize. She probably has nightmares about all of them leaving before she can win them...

 

[Seebra]

I was about to post a topic on this but then realized it may already have a thread - and of course it did, thanks to the brilliant minds and analysis of the Web Sleuthers!

This has haunted me and haunted me deeply through the entire case - this seemingly simple statement made by TL in his interview.

He stated that KC would wake up DRENCHED in sweat.

I began searching and searching for causes of night sweats, etc.

I found what many have already discussed in this thread - the subconcious mind at work.

I found some intersting links, one about the effects of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).

I also found this repeatedly through various ssearches:

those with PTSD can be characterized as sociopaths

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Now - the night sweats to me are very telling that KC is guilty of murdering her child.

She can escape the feelings and remorse, the sadness and guilt during waking hours, but during sleep, it will continue to haunt her for most likely the rest of her life, or until she confesses.

Ever read The Tell Tale Heart by Poe?

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart

 

[eddeva]

those with PTSD can be characterized as sociopaths

*resp. snipped.
WHAT??
i've never heard this in my life.
it doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Seebra]

*resp. snipped.
WHAT??
i've never heard this in my life.
it doesn't seem right to me.

I KNOW! I felt the same shock and "this doesn't fit" but rendering a search of PTSD and sociopath returns many results which support this theory - I only included it because I have long felt that sociopathic disorder is to a certain extent a "disease" of the conscious state and not the unconscious state. That part (the disorder being a conscious disease and not unconscious) is my opinion only.

 

[eddeva]

I KNOW! I felt the same shock and "this doesn't fit" but rendering a search of PTSD and sociopath returns many results which support this theory - I only included it because I have long felt that sociopathic disorder is to a certain extent a "disease" of the conscious state and not the unconscious state. That part (the disorder being a conscious disease and not unconscious) is my opinion only.

seebra, w/ my experiences in life (military) you can imagine i've met what would seem to most people, an unusually high number of people suffering from PTSD and i would never say any of them could be characterized as sociopaths. i can pretty much guarantee that they'd be so far beyond offended and terribly hurt if i did that they'd never speak to me again, and rightly so.
we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[Tinsel]

I always remember KCs voice when she was telling the police how much she regretted stealing and being selfish with respect to her mother. She did sound sincere, but we know she wasn't really sorry about stealing or lying, because she did it again so quickly and still has no remorse about that. So maybe she was coping with suspressed guilt over the killing, and it also came out as nightmares.

It's one of the many things about her that indicate mental illness and a lack of a normally developed conscience.

 

[Seebra]

seebra, w/ my experiences in life (military) you can imagine i've met what would seem to most people, an unusually high number of people suffering from PTSD and i would never say any of them could be characterized as sociopaths. i can pretty much guarantee that they'd be so far beyond offended and terribly hurt if i did that they'd never speak to me again, and rightly so.
we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I do not disagree with you at all. On the contrary, I lean towards agreeing with you and remaining shocked by that theory, as I too have been in close contact with people suffering from PTSD, though on a personal level and probably not to the extent that you have, however...

What the comment I posted suggests, and in several articles, the psychologists report that the two share certain aspects and in SOME cases overlap - not in all cases - meaning that not all people with PTSD are sociopaths, but that they may be characterized as such. I know it's confusing to me too - basically, if someone is not a sociopath and gets PTSD, they will not BECOME one because of the PTSD, but if they already have characteristics of being a sociopath, PTSD can be determined readily.

There are several lengthy articles - one is The Psychological Impact of War Trauma on Civilians, and several others are available that discuss how PTSD can "trigger" dormant anti-social behavior through avoidance.

I am in NO WAY stating my opinion about this whether it is true or not true, proven or unproven, nor do I believe that PTSD sufferers are sociopaths - merely bringing up an interesting theory on KC, in which if she did indeed experience PTSD through her subconscious and avoidance of the act she carried out could have pushed her so far off the edge of reality, she will never recover.

 

[eddeva]

I do not disagree with you at all. On the contrary, I lean towards agreeing with you and remaining shocked by that theory, as I too have been in close contact with people suffering from PTSD, though on a personal level and probably not to the extent that you have, however...

What the comment I posted suggests, and in several articles, the psychologists report that the two share certain aspects and in SOME cases overlap - not in all cases - meaning that not all people with PTSD are sociopaths, but that they may be characterized as such. I know it's confusing to me too - basically, if someone is not a sociopath and gets PTSD, they will not BECOME one because of the PTSD, but if they already have characteristics of being a sociopath, PTSD can be determined readily.

There are several lengthy articles - one is The Psychological Impact of War Trauma on Civilians, and several others are available that discuss how PTSD can "trigger" dormant anti-social behavior through avoidance.

I am in NO WAY stating my opinion about this whether it is true or not true, proven or unproven, nor do I believe that PTSD sufferers are sociopaths - merely bringing up an interesting theory on KC, in which if she did indeed experience PTSD through her subconscious and avoidance of the act she carried out could have pushed her so far off the edge of reality, she will never recover.

many thanks for the clarification, seebra and the time taken to post it, i see where you're coming from now.

 

[Nore]

I'm with you Pondering Mind!!! I hope she sees what she has done to that precious baby every time she closes her eyes in slow motion, and that she has nightmares and wakes up in sweats every time she tries to sleep!!!!

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I hope so also.I think she will,forever.She had no idea what happens to a body after death.From reading about it I believe she must have been very upset when she looked in the trunk.Imagine! KC had to touch that! I pray the child was drugged before her "actions".

 

[eddeva]

---------------------
I hope so also.I think she will,forever.She had no idea what happens to a body after death.From reading about it I believe she must have been very upset when she looked in the trunk.Imagine! KC had to touch that! I pray the child was drugged before her "actions".

i know i keep saying this but .... i don't believe casey has the required emotions to care about what she did to caylee and spend time looking back on it. i don't think she would be upset w/ her actions or the result of them. touching her childs remains would perhaps have prompted a 'YUCK MUCH!', and that's about it imo.

 

[chastity]

I really do think she was having nightmares about Caylee. She could escape it in her waking hours by keeping busy with other things, and enjoying life. But when you are sleeping, there is no control what seeps through your mind. I think she will forever be haunted with these kind of dreams. This, I believe, is one thing neither her or Cindy can control.