Casey's nightmares

[OneLostGrl]

**Respectfully snipped!!!**

Wow... let me just say, as someone who suffers from PTSD, that's offensive.

I'm kind of a bleeding heart... so the idea that someone would see me as sociopathic is not only hard to believe, but it's depressing. I'm not afflicted with PTSD because I don't have empathy for goodness sake, I think it's worse because I -do-.

Boy... wish I -could- blame everything on myself.

ahhh, I think you may be able to understand my upset when people say Casey has Bipolar.. as if!

 

[Shalya]

ahhh, I think you may be able to understand my upset when people say Casey has Bipolar.. as if!

No way is she Bipolar. I've known way too many Bipolar people to buy that even for a second.

The guilt they express when not in a manic phase, for the things they've done in a manic phase (which aren't their fault anyway) is way too intense to be dismissed.

*hugs OneLostGrl* :blowkiss:

 

[DebC]

I was about to post a topic on this but then realized it may already have a thread - and of course it did, thanks to the brilliant minds and analysis of the Web Sleuthers!

This has haunted me and haunted me deeply through the entire case - this seemingly simple statement made by TL in his interview.

He stated that KC would wake up DRENCHED in sweat.

I began searching and searching for causes of night sweats, etc.

I found what many have already discussed in this thread - the subconcious mind at work.

I found some intersting links, one about the effects of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).

I also found this repeatedly through various ssearches:

those with PTSD can be characterized as sociopaths

-------

Now - the night sweats to me are very telling that KC is guilty of murdering her child.

She can escape the feelings and remorse, the sadness and guilt during waking hours, but during sleep, it will continue to haunt her for most likely the rest of her life, or until she confesses.

Ever read The Tell Tale Heart by Poe?

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart

I have had NHL since 1999, and one of my presenting symptoms was night sweats. Drenching ones. But I don't think KC has NHL, or any physical illness. I think her nightmares were a combination of dreaming about Caylee, fear of getting caught, and the stress of keeping all her stories/lies straight. Her real life caught up with her in her sleep.

 

[karenmamo]

I was about to post a topic on this but then realized it may already have a thread - and of course it did, thanks to the brilliant minds and analysis of the Web Sleuthers!

This has haunted me and haunted me deeply through the entire case - this seemingly simple statement made by TL in his interview.

He stated that KC would wake up DRENCHED in sweat.

I began searching and searching for causes of night sweats, etc.

I found what many have already discussed in this thread - the subconcious mind at work.

I found some intersting links, one about the effects of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).

I also found this repeatedly through various ssearches:

those with PTSD can be characterized as sociopaths

-------

Now - the night sweats to me are very telling that KC is guilty of murdering her child.

She can escape the feelings and remorse, the sadness and guilt during waking hours, but during sleep, it will continue to haunt her for most likely the rest of her life, or until she confesses.

Ever read The Tell Tale Heart by Poe?

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart

Casey read POE...one of the books shown in last doc dump.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I don't think she is a sociopath either. I mean, can you imagine killing your child, witnessing her body decomposing, stuffing your child in not one but two trash bags, decomp fluid in car causing a very strong odor that you had to drive around with knowing where the smell came from, dumping her body around the corner from your house, trying to live a normal life but mom and dad keeps asking about the whereabouts of your child?

That's why she was having nightmares and waking up in cold sweats, IMO.

This gets my vote. I am not sure when she bagged her, but if it wasn't right after death I think it would be difficult to do until rigor mortis subsided and by then the body would have to have been pretty horrifying to look at and handle. Not to mention the flies and the smell. I would think you could be a sociopath and still be squeamish. I mean, think of how horrific it all would be, even without the guilt factor in there. I doubt she had been around very many dead bodies before. Even cops remember their first dead body. My DH can describe his first experience in detail. Dead bodies don't faze him anymore, but it sure enough did when he was a rookie.

 

[LKR440]

The cold sweats could also be withdrawing from drugs. Those are most common in the night.

My vote is "withdrawl". AND maybe she had been doing METH. the lame excuse about nightmares about her and AL's relationship was to keep him from asking more questions. IMO

 

[mysteriew]

I find myself wondering if she is still having nightmares? Is she waking at night and looking around, no one to provide comfort, no one to talk to. Or is that too much to hope?

 

[Jolynna]

Yeah, the nightmares are actually the only thing, that I can think of, that doesn't fit with her personality.

Considering what happened, I think Casey's nightmares fit a sociopathic personality to a tee.

Sociopaths very much care about THEMSELVES and worry about what might happen to THEM. Remember Casey in the Blockbuster video and out at Fusian on June 20? Tony doesn't report nightmares. The day Caylee died Casey was smooching in public. On "Hot Body Night",she had big grins on her face and was laughing and yucking it up. No worries about what she did to Caylee.

Then Cindy and Lee start to hunt Casey down.

July 3, Cindy writes on myspace about how she wants to see Caylee and makes it clear she won't give up. Lee calls Annie. July 2, Lee heads for a nightclub Casey is at. Cindy calls Bryon. Casey's friends warn her that her family is looking for her.

By July 5, Casey starts having nightsweats. She posts the anti-death penalty Teddy bear cartoon.

It is not that Casey can't cry. Casey shed real tears when they were holding the grand jury and the word was out that she was going to be charged with Murder 1.

Ted Bundy was said to have sniveled and been unable to walk while being led to his execution.

Lots of sociopaths cry while being led to execution. It isn't because of guilt or remorse.

IMO

 

[Seebra]

I have had NHL since 1999, and one of my presenting symptoms was night sweats. Drenching ones. But I don't think KC has NHL, or any physical illness. I think her nightmares were a combination of dreaming about Caylee, fear of getting caught, and the stress of keeping all her stories/lies straight. Her real life caught up with her in her sleep.

Thank you kindly. Exactly the point I was trying to make, but your comments sum it up much classier than mine did.

 

[OneLostGrl]

No way is she Bipolar. I've known way too many Bipolar people to buy that even for a second.

The guilt they express when not in a manic phase, for the things they've done in a manic phase (which aren't their fault anyway) is way too intense to be dismissed.

*hugs OneLostGrl* :blowkiss:

It is offensive to people with legit illnesses including PTSD to be compared to someone such as Casey, especially when the symptoms of said illness are nothing like the ones she exhibits. Things like that are one of the reasons stigma is still so horrid in this day and age. IMO.

*hugs* back atcha!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Considering what happened, I think Casey's nightmares fit a sociopathic personality to a tee.

Sociopaths very much care about THEMSELVES and worry about what might happen to THEM. Remember Casey in the Blockbuster video and out at Fusian on June 20? Tony doesn't report nightmares. The day Caylee died Casey was smooching in public. On "Hot Body Night",she had big grins on her face and was laughing and yucking it up. No worries about what she did to Caylee.

Then Cindy and Lee start to hunt Casey down.

July 3, Cindy writes on myspace about how she wants to see Caylee and makes it clear she won't give up. Lee calls Annie. July 2, Lee heads for a nightclub Casey is at. Cindy calls Bryon. Casey's friends warn her that her family is looking for her.

By July 5, Casey starts having nightsweats. She posts the anti-death penalty Teddy bear cartoon.

It is not that Casey can't cry. Casey shed real tears when they were holding the grand jury and the word was out that she was going to be charged with Murder 1.

Ted Bundy was said to have sniveled and been unable to walk while being led to his execution.

Lots of sociopaths cry while being led to execution. It isn't because of guilt or remorse.

IMO

They are cowards is all..

 

[OneLostGrl]

I find myself wondering if she is still having nightmares? Is she waking at night and looking around, no one to provide comfort, no one to talk to. Or is that too much to hope?

I have the same hope!

 

[Jolynna]

**Respectfully snipped!!!**

Wow... let me just say, as someone who suffers from PTSD, that's offensive.

I'm kind of a bleeding heart... so the idea that someone would see me as sociopathic is not only hard to believe, but it's depressing. I'm not afflicted with PTSD because I don't have empathy for goodness sake, I think it's worse because I -do-.

Boy... wish I -could- blame everything on myself.

Shayla,

I also suffer from PTSD and I agree that people with PTSD are usually the opposite from sociopaths.

I think the poster you responded to got anti-social personality disorder (sociopath) mixed up with avoidant personality disorder. They aren't the same.

But, it's a common mix up.

Avoidant personalities desperately WANT to connect. They are the opposite of uncaring and can be bleeding hearts. They are scared. They don't rob, lie and live on the edge, just the opposite. They are usually shy, withdrawn or even agoraphobic.

Many with avoidant personality disorder also have PTSD stemming from trauma or abuse.

People often confuse the disorders:

• "Avoidant personality disorder is often confused with antisocial personality disorder; clinically, the term antisocial denotes a disregard for society's norms and rules, not social inhibitions." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

Agoraphobia is linked to both avoidant personality disorder and PSTD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoraphobia
​

 

[Seebra]

Considering what happened, I think Casey's nightmares fit a sociopathic personality to a tee.

Sociopaths very much care about THEMSELVES and worry about what might happen to THEM. Remember Casey in the Blockbuster video and out at Fusian on June 20? Tony doesn't report nightmares. The day Caylee died Casey was smooching in public. On "Hot Body Night",she had big grins on her face and was laughing and yucking it up. No worries about what she did to Caylee.

Then Cindy and Lee start to hunt Casey down.

July 3, Cindy writes on myspace about how she wants to see Caylee and makes it clear she won't give up. Lee calls Annie. July 2, Lee heads for a nightclub Casey is at. Cindy calls Bryon. Casey's friends warn her that her family is looking for her.

By July 5, Casey starts having nightsweats. She posts the anti-death penalty Teddy bear cartoon.

It is not that Casey can't cry. Casey shed real tears when they were holding the grand jury and the word was out that she was going to be charged with Murder 1.

Ted Bundy was said to have sniveled and been unable to walk while being led to his execution.

Lots of sociopaths cry while being led to execution. It isn't because of guilt or remorse.

IMO

All I can say (type, think) is WOW. This makes perfect sense. I am impressed, this is an amazing explanation.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

IMO - I think her dreams were all related to whatever it is she has done to Caylee. She spent so much time hiding, putting on an act that all was normal and peachy. Night time was the only time she couldn't control her thought process. I truly believe this was the stress of all her wrong doings coming out.

 

[Seebra]

Wow - I completely apologize because I NEVER meant to insinuate that people with PTSD are sociopaths and I agree 100% that sociopaths are not capable of suffering from PTSD.

I was not confusing the avoidance disorder with sociopathic behavior and if you read back through my replies, I stress that just because someone suffers from PTSD DOES NOT AT ALL IN ANY WAY make them a sociopath.

However, there are cases of people (especially children and adolescents) who suffer from PTSD that, if left untreated, can absolutely lead to the person externalizing symptoms and COULD lead them on a path to Sociopathic behavior.

My very original post did not imply that all people who suffer from PTSD are sociopaths, I simply was wondering and questioning whether KC, who could be a sociopath - could in fact have suffered from PTSD due to the fact that she killed her daughter - OR IF, was she not already a sociopath before this but on a borderline, if she could have experienced PTSD and crossed the line into sociopathic behavior that she will not recover from.

To anyone who suffers from PTSD - PLEASE do not take my posts personally, as I want to stress again that I would never mix up the disorders and claim that just because one has PTSD they are NOT automatic sociopaths. I know what PTSD can do, and it breaks my heart. As one who actually has suffered from panic and anxiety for most of my life, I understand the fear and stress involved.

 

[BetsyB]

As far as I'm concerned, it's likely that Casey fabricated nightmares to deliver a message to Tony about her relationship concerns.

I don't believe she's in any way conscience-stricken about her actions.

 

[natsound]

IMO - I think her dreams were all related to whatever it is she has done to Caylee. She spent so much time hiding, putting on an act that all was normal and peachy. Night time was the only time she couldn't control her thought process. I truly believe this was the stress of all her wrong doings coming out.

I think you're right on. It makes perfect sense... kill your daughter... have bad dreams and sweats.

I don't think KC was a heavy drug user. She may have dabbled a bit. But if she was using meth, it would have shown. She looks reasonably good and reasonably healthy.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I think you're right on. It makes perfect sense... kill your daughter... have bad dreams and sweats.

I don't think KC was a heavy drug user. She may have dabbled a bit. But if she was using meth, it would have shown. She looks reasonably good and reasonably healthy.

She really did look too healthy (physically speaking) for me to believe she was a meth user. I'm a firm believer of the subconscious mind speaking even when you don't want to hear/face it in an awake state. Her mind and body needed someway to release all that stress. She could only drink and party it away so much. It was going to come out in some way or another. In her dreams seems most logical as she had no defenses for how her dream process would work. It is one of our most primal moments of mind speaking to body.

She doesn't even need to feel true guilt for this to happen. It's could very well be a rehash of all the adrenaline and fear she had when originally committing this heinous deed.

 

[passionflower]

KC and co, had allot of pix with lollipops in their mouths........now on another thread I just learned of 'meth pops'.........anyone know or can ID that.........esp at Halloween party, at the beach photos........just wondering.

also do sociopaths ever have a guilty conscience enough to have nightmares?
any doctors in the group? TIA