Cause of Death - Charles and Braden Powell **Warning-Graphic Thread**

[Concerned Papa]

House fires caused by gasoline & a match do not cause "instantaneous" explosions to windows. They usually take SOME time to spread. They don't 'explode' or erupt in the BLINK of an eye. They just don't. The location of the bodies, the condition of the bodies doesn't seem to be consistent with an immediate ball of fire and flames. I am not holding anyone responsible other than Josh Powell for what happened. It's not a conspiracy. But common sense tells me that either ALL the details of what happened haven't been released, or what's being released isn't the whole truth. Because what's being reported simply doesn't make sense. 2-3 minutes isn't enough time to execute this crime AND start an instant blaze to a home. And then to be able to recover the bodies in such amazingly good shape is even more perplexing. I don't know. It just isn't adding up for me YET. Anything's possible... but for me it needs to be probable.

Really?

Watch how long it takes a gasoline fire to "erupt" when this rocket scientist poured 5 gallons of gas on a brush pile and lights it with a match:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4lPzxSm5A"]FAIL: Idiot Uses Gasoline To Burn Some Branches In His Backyard! - YouTube[/ame]

Now, imagine the added intensity to this fire if the brush pile had been in a confined space, like a living room, on top of carpeting that had been previously soaked with 5 ADDITIONAL gallons of gas.

Detectives called the explosion a "deliberate, planned event" in which two five-gallon cans of gasoline were used as an accelerant to blast the home apart; gas from one can was spread around the house, and the other can was apparently ignited in the center of the house, where the bodies of Josh, Charlie and Braden were found.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gasoline-found-all-over-the-house-of-Josh-Powell-138812474.html

Lighting a match or lighter to a gas soaked rag in the throat of the full gas can would have produced results that were both catostrophic and instantaneous resulting in an explosion "in the blink of an eye".

 

[Pensfan]

I still say you've GOT to be insane to do something like this to your children.

The neck consists of soft tissues, a soft esophagus, a soft trachea, and very small cervical vertebrae. I can’t see how the boys weren’t decapitated with a blow from a man swinging an ax.

 

[carole]

What I don't understand about turning the utilities off, didn't he realize that the house would be demolished? There would be no utilities after it was gone. That just didn't make sense.

BBM

The police/fire would have contacted the utilities and they would have been turned off Sunday.

Of course, it doesn't make sense. Evil/Crazy/ Demented/ never makes sense. Nothing about this makes any sense.

 

[DLT88]

Cause of death of the children seems to be reminiscent of clues left @ the "camp site" where charred logs were found. Just wondering out loud . . . a hatchet would be something people take with them camping . . . . could this be a "pattern of death from a serial killer"?

Yup! That's what I was thinking, too! There's a relation between what the did to Susan and what he did to the boys. I think this also make him a serial killer.

 

[MarthaM]

What I don't understand about turning the utilities off, didn't he realize that the house would be demolished? There would be no utilities after it was gone. That just didn't make sense.

Maybe he was referring to utilities in his name elsewhere?

 

[Pensfan]

Really?

Watch how long it takes a gasoline fire to "erupt" when this rocket scientist poured 5 gallons of gas on a brush pile and lights it with a match:

FAIL: Idiot Uses Gasoline To Burn Some Branches In His Backyard! - YouTube

Now, imagine the added intensity to this fire if the brush pile had been in a confined space, like a living room, on top of carpeting that had been previously soaked with 5 ADDITIONAL gallons of gas.



Lighting a match or lighter to a gas soaked rag in the throat of the full gas can would have produced results that were both catostrophic and instantaneous resulting in an explosion "in the blink of an eye".

Ugh....and that house was older and clapboard.

 

[wenwe4]

Who knows what the criteria is for being a contracted case worker hired by the state? What training is required and involved? What sort of certification do you have to have? I want to know as an FYI. I'm curious. PS.. it's pretty bad when the government has to hire private agencies to help manage their case loads and accommodate the PARENTS of these kids that are being neglected and/or in danger. What is going on here?? Since when do INEPT parents dictate when and where SUPERVISED visitation takes place? I am simply livid - over it all.

What I am about to tell you is not going to ease your "lividity" Paige. Please don't shoot the messenger.

First . . . it is cheaper for the State to hire out contracted visit supervisors who's only job is to
* safely transport the children to and from the visits (if they are also contracted for transportation services)
* document the interaction between the parents and children and is now down to a check off sheet (ie: greet the child/parent with hugs and kisses, parent organized play, parent gave instructions, child followed instructions, etc).
* intervene in the visit only when a Health or Safety risk presents itself during the visit (ie: if she saw Josh with the hatchet, if she entered and smelled the gas and realized thie children were in danger, a parent hits the child, etc) - - - - (IMO she did not have time to respond to the risks of harm to the children due to Josh's directly impeding her)

The requirements for visitation supervisors are:
1) high school diploma
2) pass a background check with CPS and LE
3) training on how to intervene when a crisis happens but not to be intrusive into the parent/child relationship.
4) they are not allowed to offer parenting instruction as this is visit supervision only NOT parent education nor mental health counseling.
5) watch a video about reporting child abuse/neglect and mandating reporting
6) CPR for infants & children
7) HIV/Aids training
8) clean driving record and personal insurance (if they transport children) along with access to appropriate car seats for each age/weight of children.

I am very hesitant to give a link to a recent job posting for this very type of position on the opposite side of Washington State on the board but I will pm you with the link if you want.

 

[MarthaM]

Yup! That's what I was thinking, too! There's a relation between what the did to Susan and what he did to the boys. I think this also make him a serial killer.

I'm not sure the label 'serial killer' applies when you just happen to use the same method to kill more than one member of your family.

My own feeling has been that he killed Susan in a less 'messy' way than with an ax, but I could be completely wrong about that.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Anyone have an overhead view of the house/area?

Overhead View.

 

[Mgorules]

He broke their necks, imo, so they couldn't escape. If they died of carbon monoxide poisoning, that means they were alive in the fire.

At first I thought the "gas" smell was natural gas, but are we talking gasoline? Or maybe it was both? That would explain the rapid combustion and multiple explosions.

The hatchet (rather than axe) makes me wonder if that was Susan's murder weapon as well. With the hatchet, much more physical force would be needed to kill with, but not if your aim was to incapacitate and leave to suffer and wonder (as in: Mommy in the trunk). I wonder how sharp it had been honed to be? I bet there is a file found amongst the ruins.

Josh lived a coward and died a coward. :dervish: The demons below have a new plaything, I'm sure they'll have a field day with this punk.
:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

MOO

BBM

That was my first thought as well

 

[Indy Anna]

There were many clues this guy was suicidal. If a depressed person suddenly becomes calm and starts giving away possessions-classic clues that the person is suicidal. Apparently no one figured it out. But when his relative got his voicemail I am pretty sure it was obvious. So he was taking a big risk if he actually did leave it that much before the fire and apparently before children showed up. The relatives clearly would have tried to stop it and could have ruined his plans.

It was Super Bowl Sunday. Maybe he knew that the relative whom he left an voicemail was at a Super Bowl party. Even if he sent an email to someone hosting a Super Bowl party, he'd be pretty confident they would not be on the computer watching their email that afternoon. Could be why he chose that particular day???

Just a thought. :idea:

 

[sherryk]

How do you hatchet a child in the throat? I assume you hold them down. I assume the other ran or reacted, hence the two blows.

I keep thinking of the worst case senario of how he did this.. or the best case if there is one... I hope at least he was kind and said somthing to the ok close your eyes lay down mommy came home... please God let it of been somthing that the boys did not have to see a hatchet coming down on him..
that is my best case senario.. again there really is no best case senario.

My worst case is that he was angry, violent, harsh words due to their words of what they may have seen that night... basically JP felt BETRAYED by his sons.. that equals REVENGE.. and revenge equals anger and a horrific crime and the boys probally did see and know why he was doing what he did to them.

I have a feeling that the hatchet was used on Susan also.. just JP sick mind as to say hey.. you wanna know where your mommy and what happened.. here ya go..

i am so so sad

 

[Paige SC]

Really?

Watch how long it takes a gasoline fire to "erupt" when this rocket scientist poured 5 gallons of gas on a brush pile and lights it with a match:

FAIL: Idiot Uses Gasoline To Burn Some Branches In His Backyard! - YouTube

Now, imagine the added intensity to this fire if the brush pile had been in a confined space, like a living room, on top of carpeting that had been previously soaked with 5 ADDITIONAL gallons of gas.



Lighting a match or lighter to a gas soaked rag in the throat of the full gas can would have produced results that were both catostrophic and instantaneous resulting in an explosion "in the blink of an eye".

If the house had been soaked with gasoline, fumes would have been detected long before the social worker got to the front door and no doubt the kids wouldn't have continued to run inside at lightening speed (especially when they didn't want to go see their dad to begin with!). I know this sort of thing DOES happen and it CAN happen but I don't understand how it happened IN THIS CASE according to the details provided by the only eye witness. And from what I observed and from what's been reported (inferno, explosion, ect) it only makes sense the kids would have been burned BEYOND ALL recognition. Their bodies were in tact, soft tissue and all. The house had explosive liquid in the form of gasoline, it wasn't rigged with dynamite. Josh Powell murdered those children but state allowed him to.

 

[Thinker Belle]

"He also sent e-mails to his pastor and others just minutes before the fire, giving instructions on how to handle his end-of-life business, according to Troyer. The sheriff's department has copies of some of the e-mails sent to the attorney, family and friends, saying "he couldn't live with what was going on," Troyer said."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/07/justice/washington-powell-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Well, that's fine if he couldn't live with what was going on, my guess is out of guilt of having to lay his head on his pillow every night knowing what he did to his wife, knowing that he robbed his children of their mother. But his children could have lived with it, resilient as they often are, they could have went on with their lives living with their beloved grandparents, went on to blossom into adults and have a bright future. They should have been allowed to. WHY DID HE HAVE TO TAKE THEM WITH HIM? How completely selfish and evil even in death.

I am so incredibly angered by this. And then to learn he chopped at them with an axe? They suffered before they died. They were in pain and felt terror and agony. I was praying that they did not and now I know that the last images they witnessed before they departed this earth was their own father chopping at them with an axe? I really wished I would not have clicked on this story right now. I have one more hour of class today and I cannot get that horrific image out of my head. May justice be swift in the court of a higher power.
MOO

 

[mamamia54]

I keep thinking of the worst case senario of how he did this.. or the best case if there is one... I hope at least he was kind and said somthing to the ok close your eyes lay down mommy came home... please God let it of been somthing that the boys did not have to see a hatchet coming down on him..
that is my best case senario.. again there really is no best case senario.

My worst case is that he was angry, violent, harsh words due to their words of what they may have seen that night... basically JP felt BETRAYED by his sons.. that equals REVENGE.. and revenge equals anger and a horrific crime and the boys probally did see and know why he was doing what he did to them.

I have a feeling that the hatchet was used on Susan also.. just JP sick mind as to say hey.. you wanna know where your mommy and what happened.. here ya go..

i am so so sad

Either that or he said, we are going to go see mommy now.

 

[Indy Anna]

It was Super Bowl Sunday - I have to wonder if this was not another part of his "plan" - that people wouldn't be paying as much attention to emails and/or text messages as they were either preparing for the game (shopping, food preparing etc) or watching the pre-game, game etc and so were not as attentive as they might normally have been to messages coming in.

cinsbythesea, I should have read all of the posts first. That's exactly what I was thinking. Many people have parties the whole afternoon on Super Bowl Sunday.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't know where the story is coming from that says the kids ran ahead of the CPS lady.

The head detective in the case says they did not run ahead of her. They were all on the porch and Josh let the boys in and shut the door on her. There was no running ahead.

You can hear him say it here.

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=38755&p=&n=AudioClip

 

[jjenny]

It was Super Bowl Sunday. Maybe he knew that the relative whom he left an voicemail was at a Super Bowl party. Even if he sent an email to someone hosting a Super Bowl party, he'd be pretty confident they would not be on the computer watching their email that afternoon. Could be why he chose that particular day???

Just a thought. :idea:

But the people who he send the e-mails to did call police. It wasn't in time to save the children, but clearly they got the e-mails quickly. The emergency services arrived after the fire already started, but clearly these people were not all out not checking their e-mails/voice mails.

"Leach said he frantically called his sister along with Josh's sister and brother, Alina and Michael Powell. He said he even called 911 from his home in Texas to get emergency services over to Powell's house in Puyallup, Wash., The Salt Lake Tribune reported Monday."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...-to-e-mails/UPI-41801328577662/#ixzz1likS1BAt

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/02/06/Powell-family-reacts-to-e-mails/UPI-41801328577662/

 

[jjenny]

I don't know where the story is coming from that says the kids ran ahead of the CPS lady.

The head detective in the case says they did not run ahead of her. They were all on the porch and Josh let the boys in and shut the door on her. There was no running ahead.

You can hear him say it here.

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=38755&p=&n=AudioClip

Yep, there are quite a few variations in the story as reported by the media.

 

[jjenny]

cinsbythesea, I should have read all of the posts first. That's exactly what I was thinking. Many people have parties the whole afternoon on Super Bowl Sunday.

The people who got his e-mails called 911 so they weren't all out partying.
It was too late to save anyone but they weren't all out partying and not checking their e-mails and voice mails. And JP would presumably know that they could call 911 after getting his messages.