Caylee's "Big Trouble..." Shirt Incl. Photos *Merged*

[Beatrice]

I just *think* that the JCPenney credit cards receipts that CA didn't want known are for a replacement Winnie-the-Pooh comforter.

And, that's when CA realized the reality of it all......

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm right there with you WBG. Hopefully JWG will pop his head in and take us to class again on computer forensics.

Whether it was the photo date, file creation date or just another one of those darn coincidences that keep popping up in this case, I have a major red flag going up about anything dated June 17th 2008.

Just Speculating....

Maybe, possibly, could KC have sent those photos to RM on 6/17 and the file was created when he opened them up? If the file creation date is 6/17/08 and assuming a few things about young bachelors not going out of their way to flip thru old photos of someone else's toddler, then my thoughts go down the path that the photos were put in front of him for a reason. The only person I can think of that would be in a position to send photos of Caylee to RM would be KC.

Sooo, going with my train of thought, we have KC (possibly) sending 5-6 month old photos of her daughter, to her ex-boyfriend, the day after Caylee goes missing and wearing the exact same shirt she would later be found in?

JUST SPECULATING.... ALL MOO

Anything is possible of course but RM claims he had no contact with KC/Caylee after June 10. Later, in July I believe, KC begins to come around again to be with Amy. They all said she wasn't around beyond June 10. So like Jesse covered his arse regarding the shower weirdness, you'd think RM would bring up that he received these pics in mid June if that were the case. :waitasec:

Also he went ahead and sold them to the Globe so they must be something Caylee related.

I'm not saying that RM is guilty of anything, and I hope LE has the explanation (I can't imagine that they don't) but I'm curious and want to know the explanation myself.

People are so mad at anybody who used Caylee to make a dime but I haven't heard much outcry regarding RM selling those pics to the Globe. Kindof icky imo.

 

[scratchthatitch]

So I guess the only question I have left is if RM emailed KC on that date, why would he not bring it up in his interview? I posted earlier:

1. RM held out on the photos (obviously not knowing about the shirt) hoping to later have something to sell that wasn't being held as evidence. Maybe thinking the pictures had no evidentiary value, he witholds them from LE?

as the only option I could think of. If there is an answer to that question, then I think it is likely that KC did contact RM and requested he email the photos to her.

Wow! Now what reason could an "innocent KC" have for that one?

 

[AZlawyer]

So I guess the only question I have left is if RM emailed KC on that date, why would he not bring it up in his interview? I posted earlier:

1. RM held out on the photos (obviously not knowing about the shirt) hoping to later have something to sell that wasn't being held as evidence. Maybe thinking the pictures had no evidentiary value, he witholds them from LE?

as the only option I could think of. If there is an answer to that question, then I think it is likely that KC did contact RM and requested he email the photos to her.

Wow! Now what reason could an "innocent KC" have for that one?

BBM

I'm not sure what you mean by this--I would think an innocent mother would be MORE likely to ask her friends to email pictures of her kid to her. I know I used to ask people for copies of photos of my daughter all the time when she was little.

I am 100% convinced of KC's guilt--I just don't think asking Ricardo for photos of Caylee is evidence of it.

 

[scratchthatitch]

BBM

I'm not sure what you mean by this--I would think an innocent mother would be MORE likely to ask her friends to email pictures of her kid to her. I know I used to ask people for copies of photos of my daughter all the time when she was little.

I am 100% convinced of KC's guilt--I just don't think asking Ricardo for photos of Caylee is evidence of it.

No, I was merely being facetious. I certainly wouldn't see anything nefarious with requesting photos of your child, just considering the circumstances though:

1. June 17th is a pretty significant date to request them

2. The pictures were from months earlier so she had plenty of time prior to express interest in them

3. They just happen to be the only photos known where Caylee is wearing the shirt that would later be found with her remains

Thank you for all your help today AZ and Joylanna

 

[AZlawyer]

No, I was merely being facetious. I certainly wouldn't see anything nefarious with requesting photos of your child, just considering the circumstances though:

1. June 17th is a pretty significant date to request them

2. The pictures were from months earlier so she had plenty of time prior to express interest in them

3. They just happen to be the only photos known where Caylee is wearing the shirt that would later be found with her remains
Thank you for all your help today AZ and Joylanna

Hmmm. Now this is a really good point. If the 6/17/08 emails were really to Casey, and if they really had photos attached of Caylee in The Shirt (and both "ifs" are just speculation at this point), wouldn't the conversation between Casey and Ricardo that led up to him sending those emails have been pretty interesting and worth mentioning to LE?

Was Ricardo only interviewed before the body was found, though? If so, I would think LE would have called him back later and said, um, why did you pick photos of Caylee in that particular shirt to send to the Globe?

I wonder if he only had photos of Caylee in a couple of outfits because Casey kept a couple of "travel outfits" in Caylee's bag for overnight visits with boyfriends? Then washed them and returned them to the bag?

 

[scratchthatitch]

Hmmm. Now this is a really good point. If the 6/17/08 emails were really to Casey, and if they really had photos attached of Caylee in The Shirt (and both "ifs" are just speculation at this point), wouldn't the conversation between Casey and Ricardo that led up to him sending those emails have been pretty interesting and worth mentioning to LE?

Was Ricardo only interviewed before the body was found, though? If so, I would think LE would have called him back later and said, um, why did you pick photos of Caylee in that particular shirt to send to the Globe?

I wonder if he only had photos of Caylee in a couple of outfits because Casey kept a couple of "travel outfits" in Caylee's bag for overnight visits with boyfriends? Then washed them and returned them to the bag?

In the latest doc dump, just above the photos we are discussing, it states:
"The evidence files previously imaged from MR. Morales' computer hard drive in October of 2008 were loaded into a new EnCase file..."

That particular issue of the Globe with the photo of Caylee in the "Big Trouble.." tshirt is from October 8, 2008. So I would venture a guess that they seized his computer after they figured out the pics had to come from him. Now I might be wrong, but I believe they also seized his computer related to the Myspace Chloroform posting. I have not found an interview with RM regarding the Globe photos, but obviously if they had his computer and were looking for these images they must have known they were from him. So my guess is there is another supplemental interview with RM that has not been release.

Now I'm wondering again about the interview(date?) with CA, GA and LA about the pictures we know are from the Globe article. If they(LE) knew shortly after the release of that issue that the photos were from RM, why were they asking the A's if they had ever seen that photo? I can only think of one person that would connect the A's to RM and that would be KC. So did LE become aware of the email we are speculating about that would've put these photos into KC's hands on June 17th? I'm wondering if they were trying to get to the bottom of why KC wanted those images and what she did with them afterward...:waitasec:

If the interview with the A's took place after the remains were recovered (and I believe it was) then I feel very confident that RM was interviewed AGAIN and maybe that's when the email and it's value were discovered?

 

[pistolina]

snipped

I wonder if he only had photos of Caylee in a couple of outfits because Casey kept a couple of "travel outfits" in Caylee's bag for overnight visits with boyfriends? Then washed them and returned them to the bag?

AZlawyer - I am wondering the same thing. If these photos were not all taken on the same day but all taken at RM's apartment then why are Casey and Caylee both wearing what looks like the same clothes? But that just leads me to other questions that don't belong in this thread.

 

[scratchthatitch]

Regarding the clothing, I know of several other photos that either belonged to RM or were taken at his house with Caylee wearing other outfits. These particular photos were among many that ended up being sold to the tabloids. Obviously, this set of photos has a much darker relevance which makes the June 17 date all the more curious to me..

 

[scratchthatitch]

Here are a few dates I've found:

I found the date of the intereview with the A's, 8/5/09. They are asking about photos that were published in The Globe on October 8, 2008. RM's hard drive was copied(possibly other times also) in October 2008. I'm aware of at least one public site that posted the relevance of The Globe issue with the photos of Caylee in her "Big Trouble Shirt" on November 20, 2009.

 

[Jolynna]

IF Ricardo sent that photo to KC on June 17, 2008, it didn't have to be because KC requested it.

Only one week before KC and Caylee had "stayed over" and KC and Ricardo had had sex. Maybe at 9 p.m. on June 17 Ricardo wanted a repeat of the week before and was hopefully sending KC a picture of her and Caylee with a message like..."Missing my girls". They say competition increases ardor. The phone call with KC earlier in the day may have sparked Ricardo's urges if she turned him down earlier and gave Tony as the reason.

Or Ricardo could have emailed somebody else a photo to show them what his ex looked like.

The only thing we know for sure is that there is an artifact of that photo tied in with Ricardo's email that day.

 

[scratchthatitch]

IF Ricardo sent that photo to KC on June 17, 2008, it didn't have to be because KC requested it.

Only one week before KC and Caylee had "stayed over" and KC and Ricardo had had sex. Maybe at 9 p.m. on June 17 Ricardo wanted a repeat of the week before and was hopefully sending KC a picture of her and Caylee with a message like..."Missing my girls". They say competition increases ardor. The phone call with KC earlier in the day may have sparked Ricardo's urges if she turned him down earlier and gave Tony as the reason.

Or Ricardo could have emailed somebody else a photo to show them what his ex looked like.

The only thing we know for sure is that there is an artifact of that photo tied in with Ricardo's email that day.

That's a plausible scenario especially considering KC considered RM to be expressing regret about the relationship falling apart, the "too little too late" convo with Amy I believe...

But, and I feel like I've asked this a million times in this case, What are the odds?? On the day after Caylee goes "missing", RM suddenly goes to the set of pictures that show Caylee in THE SHIRT? The same shirt that only the person that took her life would know she was dumped with? We know that's not the shirt described by anyone in the official Missing Reports. I dunno...

 

[scratchthatitch]

One of those photos was uploaded to RM's computer in February. Its file number IMG_0285.JPG is not of the same sequence as the other 5 pictures. Caylee's bangs are shorter and cut neatly in that picture.

JPG image files: IMG_0404, IMG_0408, IMG_0409, IMG_0401., and IMG_0400 are all in close file number sequence,show KC and Caylee in a different room and Caylee's bangs are down in her eyes.

Just so it's clear for me because my eyesight is horrible, is Caylee wearing the same shirt in all of the photos? And these photos were taken on separate dates? To me it appears that someone was interested in something specific and not just random photos of their child or a reminiscing type scenario.

 

[AZlawyer]

One of those photos was uploaded to RM's computer in February. Its file number IMG_0285.JPG is not of the same sequence as the other 5 pictures. Caylee's bangs are shorter and cut neatly in that picture.

JPG image files: IMG_0404, IMG_0408, IMG_0409, IMG_0401., and IMG_0400 are all in close file number sequence,show KC and Caylee in a different room and Caylee's bangs are down in her eyes.

Yes, it looks like IMG_0285.JPG (Casey and Caylee on the bed) was taken 1/28/08 at 11:03 PM (after a party at Ricardo's--I think it was the one where the girls were wearing the "beer wench" shirts and the guys had sombreros), and the others were taken 03/19/08 around 6:15 in the morning. I was thinking it was 3/18/08 and therefore the morning after St. Patrick's day, but apparently it was the day after that, which I think is Casey's birthday. This was also right around the time Casey was searching how to make chloroform, etc.

 

[JusticeSeeker1960]

Hmmm. Now this is a really good point. If the 6/17/08 emails were really to Casey, and if they really had photos attached of Caylee in The Shirt (and both "ifs" are just speculation at this point), wouldn't the conversation between Casey and Ricardo that led up to him sending those emails have been pretty interesting and worth mentioning to LE?

Was Ricardo only interviewed before the body was found, though? If so, I would think LE would have called him back later and said, um, why did you pick photos of Caylee in that particular shirt to send to the Globe?

I wonder if he only had photos of Caylee in a couple of outfits because Casey kept a couple of "travel outfits" in Caylee's bag for overnight visits with boyfriends? Then washed them and returned them to the bag?

Or, is it possible that she left a couple suits of clothes at his house for when she was there spending the night?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks everyone for all the discussion and research surrounding these photos. I was catching up on some other threads (eye strain) and now there's a big weather change in my area (sinus pressure); so I'm reading your posts and can't make any sense of any of it (me not you). I'll have to try later when I'm fresh and can concentrate.

It's difficult to understand - harddrive versus email, date created versus file created, last accessed, EXIF vs. EMIX. Nothing is easy.

 

[scratchthatitch]

A final thought as I run thru the different scenarios for the possible 6/17/08 files we are speculating about,

Although I believe otherwise, an argument could be made that if KC was trying to locate these photos she may have been trying to destroy any evidence of the shirt being tied to her.

Giving the description of Caylee last seen in another outfit leaves some room to say "Zanny" put her in that shirt. None of the A's supposedly recognized it. Maybe it was a shirt KC bought as a joke to be shared with friends but felt CA wouldn't approve of the message. It could have been a shirt that was only kept at RM's or with KC but never brought home.

But for that theory to work, I'd have to imagine KC spending money on Caylee and that is hard to imagine!

 

[Jolynna]

I am not sure KC asked Ricardo for any photos of her and Caylee when she talked to him on the phone on June 17. There are other options.

Only 1 week before June 17, KC and Ricardo had sex.

Two weeks before June 17, KC also stayed "overnight" with Ricardo.

I could see Ricardo,a young man with normal urges, wanting a repeat "get together" the week of June 17, but being told no by KC because she was now "with" Tony & she couldn't do "that" (never mind that she already had done "that").

What did Ricardo have to offer that his rival Tony didn't???

Tony wouldn't let Caylee spend the night.

Wouldn't sending KC a picture of her and Caylee at "his" place be a good way for Ricardo to remind KC how he was willing to offer his home to Caylee when his rival, Tony, wouldn't? The word had gone out on June 16 that KC was looking to move out from the Anthony's. According to Jesse and Amy, KC said then she had to move because her parents were fighting over their impending divorce and that their house was a bad environment. KC also told Tony that the Anthony home was a bad place for both her and Caylee because of the fighting.

An email attachment archive could be from an email received as well as an e-mail sent. KC could have emailed the photo to Ricardo for some oddball reason (taunting or to remind him of her prettiness so he'd like her again).

All we know is that there were two emix files on Ricardo's computer from 6/17/08.

 

[Jolynna]

A final thought as I run thru the different scenarios for the possible 6/17/08 files we are speculating about,

Although I believe otherwise, an argument could be made that if KC was trying to locate these photos she may have been trying to destroy any evidence of the shirt being tied to her.

Giving the description of Caylee last seen in another outfit leaves some room to say "Zanny" put her in that shirt. None of the A's supposedly recognized it. Maybe it was a shirt KC bought as a joke to be shared with friends but felt CA wouldn't approve of the message. It could have been a shirt that was only kept at RM's or with KC but never brought home.

But for that theory to work, I'd have to imagine KC spending money on Caylee and that is hard to imagine!

Since Caylee was found with the "Big Trouble" t-shirt on, it probably wasn't a shirt only for being at Ricardo's. KC and Caylee weren't at Ricardos to get the shirt on June 15-16. Amy told LE she had never seen the shirt before. Amy was living at Ricardo's and was with KC and Caylee and Ricardo on June 9-10.

 

[AZlawyer]

Since Caylee was found with the "Big Trouble" t-shirt on, it probably wasn't a shirt only for being at Ricardo's. KC and Caylee weren't at Ricardos to get the shirt on June 15-16. Amy told LE she had never seen the shirt before. Amy was at Ricardo's with KC and Caylee on June 9-10.

But it could have been a shirt kept in the diaper bag in case Caylee needed a change of clothes for some reason--like if Caylee spilled her juice on her clothes, or if Casey unexpectedly decided that she wanted to spend the night with Caylee in the bed of some man and Caylee needed something to wear the next day.