Caylee's smile/behavior

[doogiesgirl]

That video of Caylee sitting on papa's lap and singing is darling and heartbreaking. At times she looks like she is daydreaming about something else (and not happy memories) almost like she is remembering something unpleasant that most likely occured recently and is frightened by her recollections. She also looks like she is still under some kind of medication, like KC medicated her to sleep the night before and the effects of the drug are still lingering in her system. But then when she is singing she seems fine. I always thought she smiled that way in the pics b/c KC smiled that way but IDK, you could be right? moo

 

[Oakley]

The part that breaks my heart in the "1 2 3 Cheese" video that is being discussed it when Caylee realizes no response is forthcoming from the videographer (most likely Casey) and she emits a very sad sigh, which to me, signals resignation. After that, she turns her back and keeps coloring. Yes, I do believe that is a form of abuse to ignore a child like that.

 

[doogiesgirl]

When I first saw a couple of these videos (where KC is silent and won't respond to Caylee while filming her) back in the fall and now watching the 123 one, I get the same feeling....like KC is stalking her, like Caylee is her prey, and she is waiting to devour her. Sorry...but thats what I get from them. They are chilling and disturbing for me to watch. moo

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

well to be honest,my daughter (3 yrs), when we take pics of her and ask her to smile...it's a fake smile, we have to catch her in the moment to catch a smile...
that being said, my daughter would definately NOT sit on anyone's lap for that long...although all children are different, caylee seemed (just watching the video) to be very sweet, kind and thoughtful

 

[mitzi]

Hi Jane,

There are other videos of Caylee where the videographer is totally silent. In one of them you can see Casey's reflection in the mirror at the beginning. It's definitely Casey's style...a contrast to the ones that George and Cindy take or participate in. In these they talk to Caylee and engage her--there's talking and laughing.

I can't imagine the context that would allow the person taking the video to ignore Caylee's question over and over again. Caylee is doing her best to ask the person behind the camera, "Is this 1-2-3 cheese? Is that what you want me to do?" At first she even answers herself.."No." But the video continues...and Caylee tries to engage the videographer over and over. She offers a crayon. No answer. "1-2-3 cheese?" she continues to ask.

Eventually she sighs and her face becomes crestfallen. I would love to see this tape evaluated by an expert in children's body language.

Indigo, ITA with you. I am not all the way thru this thread, but the video of Caylee eating in her high chair comes to my mind. In this video, again, the photographer says not a freakin' word. Never in my life have I seen any child's video, that was filmed very close to the child, not have some words of encouragement spoken to the child by the person taking the video. In this video, I also noticed that the photographer goes below the high chair and films looking up from underneath. That struck me as extremely odd and sadistic! Coupled with no conversation or love expressed for this child, and the fact that the photographer was filming from underneath, it strikes me as sick and mean-spirited!...I can honestly say that I believe that these "silent" videos are done by KC, who obviously had no real love for Caylee, and seemingly wants to put her down in the way the video is taken.

These silent videos have bothered me for the longest time and have made me sad for this precious little sweetheart, that George and Cindy could have let Caylee spend the majority of her awake hours with KC, who shows no love or affection. They had to have known how KC treated Caylee. Seems like CA was ok with this, and that makes me even sicker!

 

[mitzi]

I see what your saying, but then why would she even grab the video camera and film Caylee? It's not like she had to get the camera. If she was choosing to ignore her in the video why even bother taking the video?

To me, in these "silent" videos, it looks like KC is "studying" Caylee, like you would a bug or a white mouse in a clinical situation...it is just really strange to me, the silence on the part of the photographer, who I feel is KC.

 

[SL_Zero]

imo there is nothing wrong with not talking in vids of your kid.
its more focused on THEM than on whomever is speaking on camera, too close to the mic, and sounding like an echoey weirdo.

i always hate when i go back on videos and hear myself talking.
i don't really like the sound of my recorded voice so that is probably why.

maybe she doesnt either.

i dont see anything weird about having an observational, uninterrupted video of your kid in her/his natural environment.

also, there are plenty of ways to interact silently while filming.
who says she wasn't holding up fingers... 1.... 2.... 3 and waving around to get her to count?

i didn't have a videocamera when my daughter was little, but i bet i would do that if i'd had one. i try not to talk when taking videos with my regular camera now. the ones i end up talking in, i usually delete.

JMO but its easy to read too much into things when one is yearning for answers that will likely never come.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

The same goes for the photo of Lee and Caylee (the one where she is screaming to get away). Everyone reads so much into that picture and I just don't think its that big of a deal. I can't tell you how many photos I have of my son doing the same thing at that age. Unless he saw you everyday he hated when people would pick him up, never mind trying to get a picture. Then they would get so upset because they thought he didn't like them when in reality he just needed time to warm up to them since he didn't see them everyday. Now he loves pictures and will jump right in front of a camera.

ITA. I have always thought this about the Lee picture. I can guarantee I have pictures just like it. When a 2 year old doesn't want to be picked up, they don't want to be picked up. Or she just wanted Grandma instead of Uncle Lee. She is two, that is how two years old are. It was one moment in time, 2 seconds before or after she could have been laughing and yet that one picture made Lee sinister in alot of people's minds.

 

[azwriter]

What I have noticed about Caylee videos is the one where she is going through the motions of reading that big book. She's so cute where she acts like she's reading it, pointing to the pages and turning the pages. She jabbers away really enjoying herself. We hear a couple of words that we can make out like "Mama, Pappa."
Now, think back to Casey's account to the police of when she says she last spoke with her daughter on the phone. It seems to me Casey is describing that very video as to what her daughter was saying to her on the phone.
Casey said Caylee was upbeat and happy and talking away about her book and her shoes.
This is as good as Casey gets being a liar.
And, wasn't that book found at the scene where Caylee's remains were discovered. Casey was trying to be so clever by placing Caylee, the book and the Nanny all together.
However, she immediately tries to explain to the cops that even though her daughter has not seen her for nearly a month, Caylee isn't upset hearing from her mom after all that time. But, her excuse doesn't even make sense.
And, I love the line where she tells her two-and-a-half old daughter to "put an adult" on the phone. Sue, Caylee understands the term "adult." I think the word "big person" would have been a more suitable to communicate to such a young little girl.
jmo

 

[Who_What_When]

To me, in these "silent" videos, it looks like KC is "studying" Caylee, like you would a bug or a white mouse in a clinical situation...it is just really strange to me, the silence on the part of the photographer, who I feel is KC.

I understand what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree, but I think way too much is being read into the video. I think it really has to do with differences on how people are when taking a video or being in one.

This is just one of the many moments they had with Caylee. We don't know what the day was like or if whoever was taking the video was making hand gestures to make her talk or if they just wanted to see what she would do. If you ever saw any of the videos that my mom has taken you'd think she was a stalker too. She never talks and just follows the kids around while they are talking, playing, or eating, etc. We always laugh about it, but that's just her.

Personally, I would think that if she didn't want to be bothered with Caylee at all then she wouldn't have gone through the trouble of getting the video out. I know I hate holding a video camera as it's not a lot of fun and can be a pain, but I do it because I want to capture all the moments.

 

[Who_What_When]

ITA. I have always thought this about the Lee picture. I can guarantee I have pictures just like it. When a 2 year old doesn't want to be picked up, they don't want to be picked up. Or she just wanted Grandma instead of Uncle Lee. She is two, that is how two years old are. It was one moment in time, 2 seconds before or after she could have been laughing and yet that one picture made Lee sinister in alot of people's minds.

ITA. At least in my experience this has happened a lot.

 

[JaneInOz]

JaneInOz, I see it the same way. I think way to much is being read into the photos and videos. When my mom has a video camera in her hand she never speaks. She has tons of videos of the kids where she is just filming everything they are doing and she doesn't speak in any of them. It's funny because I'm the opposite, everyone in my family picks on me because I talk throughout the whole video either to the person I'm videoing or explaining everything step by step... lol. Everyone is different. When I see the videos and pictures of Caylee all I see is a normal little girl.

The same goes for the photo of Lee and Caylee (the one where she is screaming to get away). Everyone reads so much into that picture and I just don't think its that big of a deal. I can't tell you how many photos I have of my son doing the same thing at that age. Unless he saw you everyday he hated when people would pick him up, never mind trying to get a picture. Then they would get so upset because they thought he didn't like them when in reality he just needed time to warm up to them since he didn't see them everyday. Now he loves pictures and will jump right in front of a camera.

i was one of the ones who thinks there is something odd with that photo.
call it a protective mothers hunch LOL

 

[JaneInOz]

When I first saw a couple of these videos (where KC is silent and won't respond to Caylee while filming her) back in the fall and now watching the 123 one, I get the same feeling....like KC is stalking her, like Caylee is her prey, and she is waiting to devour her. Sorry...but thats what I get from them. They are chilling and disturbing for me to watch. moo

Oh COME ON... That is really getting far fetched

 

[concentric]

Hi Jane,

There are other videos of Caylee where the videographer is totally silent. In one of them you can see Casey's reflection in the mirror at the beginning. It's definitely Casey's style...a contrast to the ones that George and Cindy take or participate in. In these they talk to Caylee and engage her--there's talking and laughing.

I can't imagine the context that would allow the person taking the video to ignore Caylee's question over and over again. Caylee is doing her best to ask the person behind the camera, "Is this 1-2-3 cheese? Is that what you want me to do?" At first she even answers herself.."No." But the video continues...and Caylee tries to engage the videographer over and over. She offers a crayon. No answer. "1-2-3 cheese?" she continues to ask.

Eventually she sighs and her face becomes crestfallen. I would love to see this tape evaluated by an expert in children's body language.

Maybe the writer who thinks that images of Caylee may have been made for nefarious means was correct. And then you wonder what videos, photos of Caylee were deleted from the computer--the ones that would appeal to KC's on-line business, perhaps? Who knows. Then I wonder if KC posed and took pictures of a knocked-out Caylee.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Oh COME ON... That is really getting far fetched

Yes. I think we think these things now because of what we know now.

No way to prove it, but if I think if we were looking at these exact same pictures at a friend's home we wouldn't have thought a thing about them except that they were cute pictures.

 

[Who_What_When]

i was one of the ones who thinks there is something odd with that photo.
call it a protective mothers hunch LOL

Oops! Sorry! I hope I didn't offend you with my comment. I just don't think that photo is that bad. Up until he was about five, my son would freak out when someone even talk to him (if he wasn't around them for a long time), so I guess I just don't find it very odd. It was awkward for me at times, but I would tell people to just ingored him at first and he would come around. I guess he liked to scope out the situation and people at first before warming up to them, which actually was a good thing since I didn't have to worry about him going to strangers. He was friendly and loving with people who were around him all day but even when my brother in law would try to pick him up he would go into a screaming fit, and he loved his uncle!

I think people expect kids to just want to be picked up and hugged and kissed, but not all kids like that. I can't say I blame them, as adults would we just want someone to grab and hold us every we walked into a room, especially if we didn't see them all the time? LOL

As always...this is JMO

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I have to make note that one of my first posts was in regard to the fact that in many pix/vids Caylee did not look like a happy camper and sometimes mirrored behavior that a child her age should never see. I got gobsmacked for "speaking ill of the dead," so I dropped the subject.

However, over and over when I look at her pix I see a child who already had too much on her emotional plate. Children are sponges. They reflect what they see and hear. This child was a mixture of love and acceptance and criticism and confusion.

Thankfully, she's now in a place of full acceptance and nothing but happiness and joy.

 

[JaneInOz]

Maybe the writer who thinks that images of Caylee may have been made for nefarious means was correct. And then you wonder what videos, photos of Caylee were deleted from the computer--the ones that would appeal to KC's on-line business, perhaps? Who knows. Then I wonder if KC posed and took pictures of a knocked-out Caylee.

Bold is Mine -

Oh Come on - this is getting way out of hand now

Yes. I think we think these things now because of what we know now.

No way to prove it, but if I think if we were looking at these exact same pictures at a friend's home we wouldn't have thought a thing about them except that they were cute pictures.

Exactly

Oops! Sorry! I hope I didn't offend you with my comment. I just don't think that photo is that bad. Up until he was about five, my son would freak out when someone even talk to him (if he wasn't around them for a long time), so I guess I just don't find it very odd. It was awkward for me at times, but I would tell people to just ingored him at first and he would come around. I guess he liked to scope out the situation and people at first before warming up to them, which actually was a good thing since I didn't have to worry about him going to strangers. He was friendly and loving with people who were around him all day but even when my brother in law would try to pick him up he would go into a screaming fit, and he loved his uncle!

I think people expect kids to just want to be picked up and hugged and kissed, but not all kids like that. I can't say I blame them, as adults would we just want someone to grab and hold us every we walked into a room, especially if we didn't see them all the time? LOL

As always...this is JMO

Of course not LOL

Maybe even I was a bit over the top in my thoughts of that photo, and so what , even if Caylee didn't like her uncle , didn't mean anything wrong was going on , I think i was a tad OTT in regards to that photo, so no not offended in the slightest...
I actually think its just because I don't like him - his eyes ! You know how we all have this Like or Dislike for people when we look at them ...

Anyway I think the whole thing is getting ridiculously out of hand, I would lay money on it that Caylee was NOT being abused, NOT being used for pornographic means , and not being tortured in videos by her mother

I think people have gone way OTT with all this

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Bold is Mine -

Oh Come on - this is getting way out of hand now



Exactly



Of course not LOL

Maybe even I was a bit over the top in my thoughts of that photo, and so what , even if Caylee didn't like her uncle , didn't mean anything wrong was going on , I think i was a tad OTT in regards to that photo, so no not offended in the slightest...
I actually think its just because I don't like him - his eyes ! You know how we all have this Like or Dislike for people when we look at them ...

Anyway I think the whole thing is getting ridiculously out of hand, I would lay money on it that Caylee was NOT being abused, NOT being used for pornographic means , and not being tortured in videos by her mother

I think people have gone way OTT with all this

I don't think she was being physically abused. Emotionally abused...well that hat comes in many sizes, and I think one of them fit.

 

[Who_What_When]

Bold is Mine -

Oh Come on - this is getting way out of hand now



Exactly



Of course not LOL

Maybe even I was a bit over the top in my thoughts of that photo, and so what , even if Caylee didn't like her uncle , didn't mean anything wrong was going on , I think i was a tad OTT in regards to that photo, so no not offended in the slightest...
I actually think its just because I don't like him - his eyes ! You know how we all have this Like or Dislike for people when we look at them ...

Anyway I think the whole thing is getting ridiculously out of hand, I would lay money on it that Caylee was NOT being abused, NOT being used for pornographic means , and not being tortured in videos by her mother

I think people have gone way OTT with all this

ITA! I think everyone is just trying to find something to make us understand how and why something like this happened, it's human nature to want to make sense of something so horrible. I too would bet that she was not abused, tortured, etc. IMO she looked like she was a normal liitle girl who was very loved by her grandparents. Sometimes accepting that someone did this just because of whatever reason, is not easy as people want to believe that there would have been signs, etc.