Cell Phones and LISK

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CCSsalt3257 said:
goosebumps - cell phone call can register on multiple cell towers during the same call for a variety of reasons (movement mostly)...it's called a handoff. depending on time of day, if a phone pinged off a tower in close proximity to a specific hotel, the phone could actually be miles away long island i would eatimate 1-2 miles). it is also concievable that the phone was in gilgo and pinged off a tower in massapequa during those calls, as cell frequencies easily bounce off water.

just some food for thought. (modsnip)
Click to expand...

CCSsalt -
I think your reply may have been meant for me, as I posted about the Massapequa cell tower. My understanding (which is limited) of cell towers is that the last tower a call pings from ends up on the phone record -- which, in Melissa's case, was accessed by LE. A phone record (bill) obviously can't list all the towers a cell pings from but LE may have been able to narrow it down to a specific tower with more record detail. Gilgo Beach is 5 miles across the water from Massapequa but there are two towers between Gilgo and Massapequa -- they are West Gilgo Beach (40.613083 / -73.423861) and Amityville (40.672278 / -73.417278). So if the phone was accessed while standing in Gilgo the call would have had to bypass two closer towers before pinging a Massapequa location on the phone record. (Remember: the Carmans Rd tower is nearest both 2 hotels -- which is why I am thinking it could be this tower, logically).

Do you think it is possible that someone accessing her phone standing in Gilgo would bypass the 2 closest cell towers?

If so, what is the probability?

I am trying to narrow down the circumference of activity and this Massapequa cell tower question is important to me because I have tracked a POI for 5 years and have him placed 3 years after Melissa's abduction at The Seasons condos -- 250 yards from the Carmans Rd tower. He shot a YouTube video promoting his building maintenance/landscaping business at this client's location -- I have the screen captures. But this is not the only place I've been able to place him, using social media and his business records, near the "last seen" locations of the victims (GB4-SG).
 
Neptune said:
CCSsalt -
I think your reply may have been meant for me, as I posted about the Massapequa cell tower. My understanding (which is limited) of cell towers is that the last tower a call pings from ends up on the phone record -- which, in Melissa's case, was accessed by LE. A phone record (bill) obviously can't list all the towers a cell pings from but LE may have been able to narrow it down to a specific tower with more record detail. Gilgo Beach is 5 miles across the water from Massapequa but there are two towers between Gilgo and Massapequa -- they are West Gilgo Beach (40.613083 / -73.423861) and Amityville (40.672278 / -73.417278). So if the phone was accessed while standing in Gilgo the call would have had to bypass two closer towers before pinging a Massapequa location on the phone record. (Remember: the Carmans Rd tower is nearest both 2 hotels -- which is why I am thinking it could be this tower, logically).

Do you think it is possible that someone accessing her phone standing in Gilgo would bypass the 2 closest cell towers?

If so, what is the probability?

I am trying to narrow down the circumference of activity and this Massapequa cell tower question is important to me because I have tracked a POI for 5 years and have him placed 3 years after Melissa's abduction at The Seasons condos -- 250 yards from the Carmans Rd tower. He shot a YouTube video promoting his building maintenance/landscaping business at this client's location -- I have the screen captures. But this is not the only place I've been able to place him, using social media and his business records, near the "last seen" locations of the victims (GB4-SG).
Click to expand...
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Hi Neptune :seeya:

I did a lot of research on cell phone towers in the Steven Avery thread. Do you happen to know what sector the phone pinged off of? That would help narrow it down. There is a lot of info in that thread, don't know if it will help, but worth checking out..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298353-Phone-Calls-and-Phone-Records
 
Neptune -

Sorry that was meant for you. I know cell phone towers really well...I do this for a living. The call detail records obtained by Suffolk County will just show the first and last tower where the calls registered off of. They should have gotten additional records from the provider which would show every handoff made during the call. The call could have easily pinged off a tower in Massapequa if it was still in Giglo. It would depend on a variety of factors including weather, mountains/high buildings, call volume (although this is not much of an issue anymore this today, it was a few years back). The call direction, or sector, it the most important part when reading the call detail records. It would have had to register off sector 2 (southeast) which would confirm that it was maybe in Gilgo. Water basically acts as a mirror for the radio frequencies, which may be an easier way to think about it.

Realistically, a call could register off a cell phone tower up to 32 miles away. Does that happen often? No. It usually happens in rural areas like Montana. Just remember that cell phone "pings" ideally give you a location within a mile. It is not like a GPS tracking device so although there are two hotels in that area, the phone could have easily been at least a mile away.
 
CCSsalt3257 said:
Neptune -

Sorry that was meant for you. I know cell phone towers really well...I do this for a living. The call detail records obtained by Suffolk County will just show the first and last tower where the calls registered off of. They should have gotten additional records from the provider which would show every handoff made during the call. The call could have easily pinged off a tower in Massapequa if it was still in Giglo. It would depend on a variety of factors including weather, mountains/high buildings, call volume (although this is not much of an issue anymore this today, it was a few years back). The call direction, or sector, it the most important part when reading the call detail records. It would have had to register off sector 2 (southeast) which would confirm that it was maybe in Gilgo. Water basically acts as a mirror for the radio frequencies, which may be an easier way to think about it.

Realistically, a call could register off a cell phone tower up to 32 miles away. Does that happen often? No. It usually happens in rural areas like Montana. Just remember that cell phone "pings" ideally give you a location within a mile. It is not like a GPS tracking device so although there are two hotels in that area, the phone could have easily been at least a mile away.
Click to expand...

Does GPS work the same way? I live1 mile from the river, and notice when I look at my gps, notice it comes up across the river sometimes, there is a cell tower over there but one closer to me. It doesn't do it all the time, but I have noticed it has happened. I know the iPhone has location tracker that will show police gps location of user. Whose phones were pinging at the same time the women's phones were pinging, its probably a lot but worth going through. I would check the ones that ping the most in that area. One phone should stand out. Unless he leaves his phone at home (if he has one). He chooses these women because he knows the police won't want to work as hard to solve the murder of a "working girl" than a suburban mom.
 
IndieCindy -

No, works nothing like GPS. GPS is based off satellites where as cell phones register off different towers (probably located at least 1/2 mile away from each other). On star does not preserve historical GPS locations and you would have to have a suspect vehicle in order to actively track a car/truck through On Star. Same with LoJack.
 
CCSsalt3257 said:
Excerpts:

The call detail records obtained by Suffolk County will just show the first and last tower where the calls registered off of. They should have gotten additional records from the provider which would show every handoff made during the call.

The call direction, or sector, it the most important part when reading the call detail records.
Click to expand...

BBM

CCSsalt –
I’m most grateful to you for the detailed explanation.

I hope you are correct in that LE accessed additional records for Melissa’s cell and that is the reason they specifically went to the 2 motels in Massapequa. The tower that appears closest to the Budget Inn and Best Western and was erect at that time (because cell towers shown today don’t necessarily mean the tower was standing back in 2009) is the one on Carmans Rd.

So it really depends on how in-depth SCPD looked into her records – something we just don’t know.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
.
Hi Neptune :seeya:

I did a lot of research on cell phone towers in the Steven Avery thread. Do you happen to know what sector the phone pinged off of? That would help narrow it down. There is a lot of info in that thread, don't know if it will help, but worth checking out..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298353-Phone-Calls-and-Phone-Records
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the info on the Massapequa tower is scant. I'll read up on the cell thread -- thanks for the lead, BCA!
 
Neptune said:
Unfortunately the info on the Massapequa tower is scant. I'll read up on the cell thread -- thanks for the lead, BCA!
Click to expand...
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Do you know how big the tower is? I found that some are registered with the FCC. Maybe you can track it down that way?
The range on towers are about 20 miles, and about 30+miles in rural areas if that helps.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
.
Do you know how big the tower is? I found that some are registered with the FCC. Maybe you can track it down that way?
The range on towers are about 20 miles, and about 30+miles in rural areas if that helps.
Click to expand...

Maybe this will help Neptune?
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProASRLookup.php?sASR=1252793&tabSearchType=ASR+Search
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProASRLookup.php?sASR=1267207&tabSearchType=ASR+Search
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProASRLookup.php?sASR=1237189&tabSearchType=ASR+Search
 
BigCityAccountant said:
.
Do you know how big the tower is? I found that some are registered with the FCC. Maybe you can track it down that way?
The range on towers are about 20 miles, and about 30+miles in rural areas if that helps.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what tower it is. In his book Kolker reported that it was a Massapequa tower. But, as you've probably learned, there are only a few that were standing in 2009 that have a location listed with the FCC as "Massapequa". I guessed that it is the Carmans Rd tower (40°41'3.10"N 73°25'53.44"W) based on where the police checked the hotels.

Budget Inn 40°40'40.19"N 73°25'55.97"W
Best Western 40°40'39.54"N 73°26'44.70"W​

But good website reference for the tower descriptions!
 
Meltruth said her sisters phone pinged off the tower on Fire Island. Her sister is Maureen. This occured a couple of weeks after she went missing.. Family was notified of this in 2008. She went missing on 2007.
 
Neptune said:
I'm not even sure what tower it is. In his book Kolker reported that it was a Massapequa tower. But, as you've probably learned, there are only a few that were standing in 2009 that have a location listed with the FCC as "Massapequa". I guessed that it is the Carmans Rd tower (40°41'3.10"N 73°25'53.44"W) based on where the police checked the hotels.
Budget Inn 40°40'40.19"N 73°25'55.97"W
Best Western 40°40'39.54"N 73°26'44.70"W​

But good website reference for the tower descriptions!
Click to expand...
.
Hi Neptune! :seeya:

Were you able to find a cell tower on Fire Island? If so, do you have coordinates? I wasn't able to find a cell tower on Fire Island, but I was able to find one close to Oak Island and one close to Jones Beach. Sometimes when they are not over 250' they don't have to register with the FCC.

TIA!!
 
(Some of these gals also put an ad on: backpage.com) Amber Costello did. (one name she used was: "Carolina")
Regarding Amber Costello, the "$1500" amount that was mentioned:
I found online, about some of the actual ads that were placed by the gals (on backpage.com),
and the common amount for an "overnight stay" was: "$1500" (some gals charged, "$2,000", for an "overnight stay")

It goes without saying that: This "serial killer" did not pay these victims. (He could "say" anything.)
Even "if" he did pay them at the beginning (before he killed them), you know good and well that he then got the money back from them.
(i.e., you know that this guy was getting "freebies") (and he could "say" anything)

He possibly "told" all of his victims, that he would give them "$1500"
(which was the common amount for, an "overnight stay")

"Saying" an overnight stay, would also be to HIS benefit.
(Reason being: Well say that the gal told her boyfriend, friend, or whoever, that she wouldn't be back that night. Noone would suspect anything, until she didn't come back home, the "next" day.) This scenerio gives the killer some "time", before anyone starts suspecting anything.

But anyway, this shows that the amount of: "$1500",
was (& most-likely, still is) commonly-stated by gals (who were prostitutes),
for,
an "overnight stay".
 
Maybe that's the reason they didn't bring their phones. The killer using the excuse "he wants their full attention"/ dont want to be interrupted with the women answering their phones. He's paying for a "overnight" and wants all time spent with/on him.
 
ps149 said:
There are more cell towers today than there were then AND not (especially back then) competing cell phone companies don't share their towers as much as you might think. That's part of thr problem in drawing any radius. Second thing is that cell phone radio frequencies are extremely linear. I've been on the water off of Gilgo and had cellphones connect to towers as far away as New Jersey, Brooklyn and even Connecticut.
Click to expand...
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I think it is possible to reasonably assuming that LISK did NOT turn the cell phone on. But, then who did? A girlfriend, wife or child perhaps?
 
Tower information is going to be hard to come by. You first need to know what service provider LISK used when he made those calls. Not every tower services every provider (Verizon, Sprint, ATT, Boostmobile-Metro).

John Bittfolff still makes way too much sense for me...at least as a suspect who committed some of the murders and dumped after the original 4 were found
 
BigCityAccountant said:
.
Hi Neptune! :seeya:

Were you able to find a cell tower on Fire Island? If so, do you have coordinates? I wasn't able to find a cell tower on Fire Island, but I was able to find one close to Oak Island and one close to Jones Beach. Sometimes when they are not over 250' they don't have to register with the FCC.

TIA!!
Click to expand...
The tower is on the south side of the Robert Moses bridge.
 
Does anyone have links or screenshots of the girls last postings on Craigslist or backpage?
 
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