Cell Phones and LISK

[Dave K]

I had thought about that, too, like really cheap disposable burner phones that you can buy anywhere in stores and online. But, I gather the girls used and left behind their own cell phones. I may be wrong, but that is what I gathered from researching the case.

Does anyone know exactly which victims left their cell phones behind? I know Amber Lynn Costello did. In this 2011 CNN article it states:



http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/30/long.island.killings/

Originally Posted by Kodiak
My theory about how LISK convinces the girls to leave their cell phones at home...

He tells them he suffers from an arrhythmia medical condition. And because of his cardiac pacemaker, or an implantable cardioverter defibrillator in his chest, he cannot be around cell phone technology. Whether this is a lie he uses, or the possibility that he really does have an implanted device, it's a good and quick way of getting the girls to let their guards down and leave their phones behind.

That doctor who interjected himself into Shannan Gilbert's case has an ICD. I remember seeing this interview where he was being filmed and his ICD starts giving him trouble and he falls to the ground. It can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/m185JCscuWo?t=4m43s

Megan Waterman & Amber Lynn Costello, left their phones behind… Megan is the one that her mother was adamant that it would only be something really rare for her to not take her phone, I think she said that, she believes that Megan must have talked with him at least 5 or 6 times, to get her to do that… something like that… Amber had the guy room mate, who said that this one guy kept calling, a number of times, (it occurred to me that he may have been calling her over a period of days), so, I’m thinking he really worked on them to get them to leave their phones behind… he (the roommate) said he tried to talk her into taking her phone, but, she said… “no, that’s not what he wants”… I really like the thinking of that the guy could have presented that he had some form of heart implant and could not be around cell technology… this is really something to consider, whether it's true or not… in other words… whether the guy had the condition or not, or, even whether there is any such a condition that required that… he could have just made it up, and, if he was convincing enough, and he’d otherwise made them feel comfortable with him… then, he got them to leave their phones behind… I think it’s a big point… in both cases, it appears that it was really a big thing for the girls to leave their phones behind… I had been thinking that he’s doing it by offering $1,000-$1,500 and just convincing them that he doesn’t want their time interrupted, or to find them scrolling and texting while their with him… but, the heart thing is a good consideration…

Of the GB4… the other two… Melissa Bartholemy & Maureen Brainard Barnes… he called the sister of one and the friend of the other… from their cell phones…

 

[Kodiak]

Megan Waterman & Amber Lynn Costello, left their phones behind… Megan is the one that her mother was adamant that it would only be something really rare for her to not take her phone, I think she said that, she believes that Megan must have talked with him at least 5 or 6 times, to get her to do that… something like that… Amber had the guy room mate, who said that this one guy kept calling, a number of times, (it occurred to me that he may have been calling her over a period of days), so, I’m thinking he really worked on them to get them to leave their phones behind… he (the roommate) said he tried to talk her into taking her phone, but, she said… “no, that’s not what he wants”… I really like the thinking of that the guy could have presented that he had some form of heart implant and could not be around cell technology… this is really something to consider, whether it's true or not… in other words… whether the guy had the condition or not, or, even whether there is any such a condition that required that… he could have just made it up, and, if he was convincing enough, and he’d otherwise made them feel comfortable with him… then, he got them to leave their phones behind… I think it’s a big point… in both cases, it appears that it was really a big thing for the girls to leave their phones behind… I had been thinking that he’s doing it by offering $1,000-$1,500 and just convincing them that he doesn’t want their time interrupted, or to find them scrolling and texting while their with him… but, the heart thing is a good consideration…

Of the GB4… the other two… Melissa Bartholemy & Maureen Brainard Barnes… he called the sister of one and the friend of the other… from their cell phones…

Dave K,

Great post. Thanx for clarifying which girls left their phones behind. I knew Amber was one, but it was Megan I must have forgotten. Yeah, I honestly believe the cell/health/ICD theory has to be what's convinces them to leave the phones. And it is interesting that Dr. Hackett has one, himself. It's almost like LISK knows about his ICD and is almost setting him up–if indeed the ICD ploy is used by LISK.

 

[Kodiak]

Also, from research, the medical field states that persons with ICD's should have cell phones at least 6 inches away from them so that it doesn't cause interference with the device. But the girls wouldn't know that unless they previously knew someone who had one, or if they took the time to research it online. It makes me want to post a Backpage listing asking any escorts if they've ever encountered a client who has mentioned having such a device and told them not to bring their phones.

One could argue that LISK uses a cell phone in their company, but I bet he solely communicates with it via his car's bluetooth system... to pad his ICD ploy further!

Pairing a vehicle's bluetooth with a cell phone for text messaging:

[video=youtube;FEupd-2shzY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEupd-2shzY[/video]

 

[Kodiak]

This case really piqued my interest. I didn't know anything about it until a few days ago, and there is so much to it. The use of cell phones and internet is bugging me. It seems obvious that the use of the victims' cell phones, or cell phones in general would yield better results in narrowing down a search area. He used at least one computer and/or cell phone in order to make contact with these girls, and he used victims' cell phones in order to call their families/friends to taunt them. Cell phones and computers leave some sort of foot print no matter how savvy the user is. I've heard of at least one case where applications on cell phones act as a GPS in order to pinpoint a crime scene, and where "throw away" phones are tracked (through activation when it requires another number to activate, or through purchase where there are a number of ways to track as a result.) The cell phones alone offer so many avenues, and it's only added to by the fact that he kept at least one victims' cell for an extended period. In this day and age, very, very few people can use computerized electronics without an experienced hacker being able to figure out who they are, and I'm sure the FBI employs at least one hacker for these purposes.
Have these questions been brought up in great detail? I honestly believe that if this is apprehended at this point, it will be as a result of misuse of electronics, or blabbering to people about his crimes. Only one of those two things is in the hands of anyone but the perp himself.

I don't think these questions have been brought up in great detail. Great perspective though, and I would love to know as well.

 

[dotr]

Not sure if this would be the case in the US, but in Canada a woman who was murdered by an sk. had part of her conversation with the perp. recorded without knowledge from either the victim, Amber T. or her apparent killer.
LE initially seemed reluctant to reveal how this occurred, imo. but ultimately it turned out that Amber had received an out call from someone in jail, and that was why it was recorded.
speculation.

Is it possible that the LISK girls who were encouraged to leave behind phones, were the ones that might receive a call from prison, and the perp knew this or played that up in some way?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/a...-murder-do-you-recognize-this-voice-1.3102635

Unravelling the mysterious disappearance and unsolved murder of Amber Tuccaro could hinge on identifying a man whose voice was captured in a recording of her last phone conversation, new details of which her family has revealed to CBC News.

Police released 61 seconds of audio, but CBC News has learned that the full audio recording is 17 minutes in length, which corresponds almost directly to the amount of time it would take to drive from the motel where Tuccaro was staying to the site where her body was found two years later.

RCMP have refused to disclose how they got the recording or who Tuccaro was speaking to on her cellphone. But CBC News has learned that the call to Amber came from her brother, who was being held in the Edmonton Remand Centre at the time.

The centre began recording all outgoing calls by inmates earlier in 2010

 

[No it's not]

The article linked makes no mention of Maureen Brainard-Barnes leaving her cell phone behind. Only that her phone was pinged from Long Island. So she must have taken it with her. Her info in her Websleuths thread gives the same info.

Question now is... Has LISK kept the cell phones of all his confirmed victims as trophies? All phones except for Amber Lynn Costello's.

I posted the wrong link, sorry. For some reason I was thinking of someone taking her cellphone, not leaving it behind. This would have been the correct link:

'At one point that weekend, Maureen called a friend from the Port Authority and said she’d been robbed of all the money she’d earned. She needed a ride home, but the friend couldn’t come get her. After that call, no one heard from Maureen again. For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” Cann says.'

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html

-Nin

 

[bessie]

This case really piqued my interest. I didn't know anything about it until a few days ago, and there is so much to it. The use of cell phones and internet is bugging me. It seems obvious that the use of the victims' cell phones, or cell phones in general would yield better results in narrowing down a search area. He used at least one computer and/or cell phone in order to make contact with these girls, and he used victims' cell phones in order to call their families/friends to taunt them. Cell phones and computers leave some sort of foot print no matter how savvy the user is. I've heard of at least one case where applications on cell phones act as a GPS in order to pinpoint a crime scene, and where "throw away" phones are tracked (through activation when it requires another number to activate, or through purchase where there are a number of ways to track as a result.) The cell phones alone offer so many avenues, and it's only added to by the fact that he kept at least one victims' cell for an extended period. In this day and age, very, very few people can use computerized electronics without an experienced hacker being able to figure out who they are, and I'm sure the FBI employs at least one hacker for these purposes.
Have these questions been brought up in great detail? I honestly believe that if this is apprehended at this point, it will be as a result of misuse of electronics, or blabbering to people about his crimes. Only one of those two things is in the hands of anyone but the perp himself.

Those are all good points, but keep in mind we're talking about 6-7 years ago. Burner phones purchased with cash were not easily traced. Also, older phones did not all have built in GPS, and location services can be turned off.

I do agree that if LISK(s) is/are ever caught, it could well be because s/he "blabbed" to someone. Unfortunately, if true, to date that person has remained silent, and might no longer be alive. JMO

 

[Dave K]

The article linked makes no mention of Maureen Brainard-Barnes leaving her cell phone behind. Only that her phone was pinged from Long Island. So she must have taken it with her. Her info in her Websleuths thread gives the same info.

Question now is... Has LISK kept the cell phones of all his confirmed victims as trophies? All phones except for Amber Lynn Costello's.

Maureen B-B is the one who he called her friend in CT... so, he probably had her phone and got her friends phone # from the directory, or recent calls... I would expect that he spoke with Maureen and heard the story about her having come to NYC with her friend Sara then her friend had gone back to CT... so, he knew who Sara was when he called her...

The first two (chronologically) Gilgo Beach 4 (GB4) victims... he called the best friend of the first one and the sister of the other... the last two... he convinced them to leave their phones...

He called the sister of Melissa Bartholemy from Melissa's phone... so, he took it from her... Maureen B-B he called her friend in CT, from a blocked number... he would have to have gotten her number from Maureen's phone... he could have called from her phone, and blocked the number... this guy's spooky...

 

[Kodiak]

I posted the wrong link, sorry. For some reason I was thinking of someone taking her cellphone, not leaving it behind. This would have been the correct link:

'At one point that weekend, Maureen called a friend from the Port Authority and said she’d been robbed of all the money she’d earned. She needed a ride home, but the friend couldn’t come get her. After that call, no one heard from Maureen again. For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” Cann says.'

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html

-Nin

No worries. Thanx for the correct link. This article had more information. Especially when Kim asked Amanda about LiSK:

Still, the others can’t resist a question or two. “Can I just ask you,” says Overstreet, “did he sound husky, or brusky, or what?”

“No, he didn’t have an accent,” Amanda says. “He was white.”

“Did he sound like a New Yorker?” says Overstreet.

Amanda struggles to answer. “Not *really. It was just kinda plain. You know, he was white, probably in his thirties, forties, maybe.”

“So he’s not from New York?” Cann asks.

Amanda shrugs. “Maybe,” she says. “He could have been.”

The questions come faster now: Was he angry, happy, nasty, mocking?

“He was calm, in control,” Amanda says. “He knew what he was doing.”

 

[Super Sleuth]

Here's what I think:
When LISK was with Melissa Barthelemy she must have snapped a picture of him or something that made him change things a little and that's why the next victims were told not to bring their phones with them. Either that or after killing Melissa when going through her phone he found a picture of himself or incriminating evidence.

The fact that he was trying to check Maureen Bainard-Barnes' voicemail tells me he was nervous about something. Why else would he be so interested about what's on there? Maybe he had left a voicemail on there that he wanted erased so that the police couldn't hear what he sounded like or know what his tactics are. I believe tracing back Maureen's phone will give the most clues. Plus, if LISK is only responsive for the GB4 then it's very possible Maureen was his first victim, and that means that's where any mistakes would be found. That's when he was most bold and stupid. Maureen Brainard-Barnes is the key to it all in my opinion.

 

[Kodiak]

Here's what I think:
When LISK was with Melissa Barthelemy she must have snapped a picture of him or something that made him change things a little and that's why the next victims were told not to bring their phones with them. Either that or after killing Melissa when going through her phone he found a picture of himself or incriminating evidence.

The fact that he was trying to check Maureen Bainard-Barnes' voicemail tells me he was nervous about something. Why else would he be so interested about what's on there? Maybe he had left a voicemail on there that he wanted erased so that the police couldn't hear what he sounded like or know what his tactics are. I believe tracing back Maureen's phone will give the most clues. Plus, if LISK is only responsive for the GB4 then it's very possible Maureen was his first victim, and that means that's where any mistakes would be found. That's when he was most bold and stupid. Maureen Brainard-Barnes is the key to it all in my opinion.

I agree. For him to be checking her voicemail three years after she disappeared is a huge risk. I wonder after all the time that had gone by after killing Maureen, he realized and remembered one day that he had left a voicemail for her. Or... the guy is so sick that he wanted to hear all the frantic and worried messages from family and friends. It also could be that he turned the phone on to just retrieve the phone number to her voicemail. If LISK is tech-savy, like he is with phones, he could have taken her voicemail number and hacked the password for the account with his own devices/tools he uses.

 

[OnTheCase27]

I agree. For him to be checking her voicemail three years after she disappeared is a huge risk. I wonder after all the time that had gone by after killing Maureen, he realized and remembered one day that he had left a voicemail for her. Or... the guy is so sick that he wanted to hear all the frantic and worried messages from family and friends. It also could be that he turned the phone on to just retrieve the phone number to her voicemail. If LISK is tech-savy, like he is with phones, he could have taken her voicemail number and hacked the password for the account with his own devices/tools he uses.

I don't believe it was 3 years IIRC it was in 2008 her phone pinged on Long Island which would be with a year of her disappearance in 2007.

 

[Neptune]

Subject: Maureen's cell phone

1. My notes from Robert Kolker's Lost Girls:

Sometime in 2008 (date unknown) Maureen’s cell phone (trying to access her voice mail) pings off of a water/cell tower on Fire Island. Police with cadaver dogs and helicopters searched the area but found nothing.​

2. The source of this 2011 information is from a file on an old computer and wasn't transferred to my new one - but I'm very careful about my sourcing so I'm apt to believe this is correct:

Maureen's cell carrier was Boost.​

3. In 2011 I took a screenshot of Boost's advertised coverage in on Fire Island in 2011 -- I still have this. The Boost map showed a Water/Cell Tower @ 40°38'55.54"N 73° 9'16.05"W

Note: According to online message boards dedicated to fishing in the Great South Bay, many people in boats rely on cell reception from water towers on Fire Island -- which is what I believe happened: LISK had Maureen's cell for a year after he killed her and decided to try calling it when he was on his boat in the middle of the bay.

Until TKS aired last week, I had never heard of Maureen's phone pinging from a cell tower near Gilgo Beach, which is 12 miles West of Fire Island. I'm not sure that information is correct.

 

[shadowraiths]

Here is the info referring to Maureen Brainard-Barnes cell phone ping:

The weekend she disappeared, Maureen had taken the train into the city with friends, but she left them once she got to Manhattan. Cann says her sister usually worked from a hotel room and never saw johns at their places. Maureen was adamant about working only in Manhattan and never said anything to Cann about working in Long Island. At one point that weekend, Maureen called a friend from the Port Authority and said she’d been robbed of all the money she’d earned. She needed a ride home, but the friend couldn’t come get her. After that call, no one heard from Maureen again. For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” Cann says. When she saw the news about Gilgo Beach, Cann knew Maureen had to be one of the bodies.​

NY Mag

 

[shadowraiths]

Subject: Maureen's cell phone

[...]

Until TKS aired last week, I had never heard of Maureen's phone pinging from a cell tower near Gilgo Beach, which is 12 miles West of Fire Island. I'm not sure that information is correct.

Respectfully snipped for brevity, BBM.

I tend to agree. Here is the article about the Fire Island ping.

A few weeks later there came a break in the case. Investigators discovered that Brainard-Barnes' cellphone was apparently turned on, near Fire Island off Long Island, about three weeks after she went missing, Cann said. A Long Island connection had been made.​

Hartford Courant

Over time, I think people may just generalize (i.e., near Gilgo Beach, etc)

 

[Natga]

Maureen, Melissa and Shannan, didn't leave their cell phones behind. Shannan was the last one, who we know of, that had her cell phone with her. Shannan had a 23 minute phone call to 911, the night she disappeared (and no one has heard that phone call to 911, even though we all know 911 phones calls are recorded). After Shannan, came Megan Waterman and then Amber Longstreet Costello. Megan and Amber were convinced to leave their cell phones. Pretty sure the killers didn't need another repeat of a 23 minute call to 911.
Or neighbors being exposed to the action.
Which is why I feel Shannan's body landed differently than the burlap girls.


And we all know C.Peter Hackett has a problem with cell phones.

 

[Dave K]

Maureen, Melissa and Shannan, didn't leave their cell phones behind. Shannan was the last one, who we know of, that had her cell phone with her. Shannan had a 23 minute phone call to 911, the night she disappeared (and no one has heard that phone call to 911, even though we all know 911 phones calls are recorded). After Shannan, came Megan Waterman and then Amber Longstreet Costello. Megan and Amber were convinced to leave their cell phones. Pretty sure the killers didn't need another repeat of a 23 minute call to 911.
Or neighbors being exposed to the action.
Which is why I feel Shannan's body landed differently than the burlap girls.


And we all know C.Peter Hackett has a problem with cell phones.

It's occurred to me... (among other things)... the first two of the GB4... he took their cell phones and called either a friend or a family member... the last two... he convinced them to leave their phones... in-between the first two and the second two... Shannan went missing and was known to have made a 23 min call to 911... (I also like the idea above, from Super Sleuth, that one of the first two had taken a pic of him on her phone... he really wouldn't want that to happen)... always a possible combination of the two... I seem to be more suspicious of P Hackett than a lot of people... I have quite a few notes on that... plan to post some before too long...

 

[shadowraiths]

Speaking of cell phones, the following (emphasis added, mine) has long stuck with me...

The NYPD, which had opened a missing persons case on the Bronx-based prostitute, was able to trace the last two calls to the Madison Square Garden and Times Square area.

"But he shuts off right away so we can never figure out where he was exactly," one law enforcement source said.

When cops got Barthelemy's phone records, they determined that around the time she vanished, she checked her voice mail from Massapequa, L.I. They showed her picture at several motels, but no one recognized her.

They traced a second phone that belonged to her to an ex-con who said he picked it up after a tussle between hookers in Times Square orchestrated by a pimp.
​

NY Daily News

The wording of the above bolded sentence is more than odd.

 

[Dave K]

Speaking of cell phones, the following (emphasis added, mine) has long stuck with me...

The NYPD, which had opened a missing persons case on the Bronx-based prostitute, was able to trace the last two calls to the Madison Square Garden and Times Square area.

"But he shuts off right away so we can never figure out where he was exactly," one law enforcement source said.

When cops got Barthelemy's phone records, they determined that around the time she vanished, she checked her voice mail from Massapequa, L.I. They showed her picture at several motels, but no one recognized her.

They traced a second phone that belonged to her to an ex-con who said he picked it up after a tussle between hookers in Times Square orchestrated by a pimp.
​

NY Daily News

The wording of the above bolded sentence is more than odd.

Too much detail to go into... but, generally speaking... I think there's probably a fair amount more than they could determine from phones, phone records, and possibly electronic information, such as from Craig's List... than, either, they've bothered to really investigate, or at least, maybe more than they've shared with the public... possibly, the FBI will take this further...

 

[diamond29]

I live in British Columbia Canada. I used to post ads on craigslist casual encounters. I had recieved an odd request from a guy one time. We agreed to meet but he asked me something I found very odd he said I quote " leave tour pocketbook and phone at home. I asked him what he woukd be driving buy all he wanted to know was where and what time to meet and what I would be wearing. I didn't listen brought my purse and he didn't show. I think he drove by saw I had my purse and kept driving. Even the terminology...pocket book...I have not heard that in a long time.