Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

[Sutton]

Are you able to say please, which ideas you find 'wacky'?

Not directed at you or any one in particular. There are lots of outside-the-box ideas throughout this thread and thread one. But, like I said, one of those ideas could be very close to the truth.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I would like people to tell me whether they are finding the newspaper articles interesting or not. If I do not hear from anyone I will not waste another second of my time.

Your articles are great but the minute you start stating it's a fact that SD has never been in contact with SS and CBV definitely had CCTV and police said the martial arts expert worked at BSD etc etc, you're going to be asked questions. That's the nature of forums. No one is trying to be mean or spiteful but if you make such statements people are going to ask for clarification. Don't forget one of your very first posts was having a go at someone for not providing a source for their claims. You can use the ignore button if you like but many will see that as a way of blocking out anyone who doesn't agree with your claims.

 

[papertrail]

Your articles are great but the minute you start stating it's a fact that SD has never been in contact with SS and CBV definitely had CCTV and police said the martial arts expert worked at BSD etc etc, you're going to be asked questions. That's the nature of forums. No one is trying to be mean or spiteful but if you make such statements people are going to ask for clarification. Don't forget one of your very first posts was having a go at someone for not providing a source for their claims. You can use the ignore button if you like but many will see that as a way of blocking out anyone who doesn't agree with your claims.

Provide proof of:

1. I stated for a fact that SD had never been in contact with SS
2. that I stated CBV definitely had CCTV
3. that I stated police said the martial arts expert worked at BSD
4. all the etc etcs you refer to

My granpop always said to me : it is not what you say, but how you say it. Perhaps he should have had a chat in your ear.

 

[Bartholemeus]

It's time to move on. We're hijacking the thread and it's unfair on others.

 

[papertrail]

I need to clarify something that's been mentioned over the past few weeks: the Claremont Subway. I have always assumed this meant a subway, as in an underground transportation system. But all I can find on Google are rail systems.

Are we talking about Subway the Sandwich Shop?!

Further information that confirms the location of the Claremont Subway.
If you google 'claremont railway subway western australia' the 4th google article is a pdf document entitled 'overhead bridge heights - main roads western australia'. in it is lists the Claremont Subway as being the Graylands Road bridge which is adjacent to Rowe Park. There is no other subway named Claremont Subway.
https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Documents/Distance Book - Bridge Heights 2013.RCN-D14^2312388.PDF

 

[papertrail]

It's time to move on. We're hijacking the thread and it's unfair on others.

Oh no you don't. You made your false statement about what I was supposed to have stated as fact, when in fact I did not make any statements about what you stated. Supply your proof

 

[Bartholemeus]

Oh no you don't. You made your false statement about what I was supposed to have stated as fact, when in fact I did not make any statements about what you stated. Supply your proof

"So they had CCTV at Club Bayview"

Don't make me go get the other two.

 

[papertrail]

If you re-acquaint yourself Bart with what WA police representative Byleveld stated 3/4 way through the CIA doc you will hear him say, that is if you listen with open ears, that the WA police currently had 2 POIs. One was the guy with the gun or rifle or whatever under the seat, the other POI was someone who had worked closely with SS, he was from a wealthy english family, and a martial arts expert and further things were detailed. Listen carefully.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Time to move on.

 

[Sutton]

...I would like people to tell me whether they are finding the newspaper articles interesting or not. If I do not hear from anyone I will not waste another second of my time.

Snipped. I'm sure everyone here appreciates your articles. Please don't stop.

 

[Sutton]

Okay, I made a map with the locations, but there is a problem getting it to load correctly. I will post it when I get the issue resolved.

I was trying to see how close all the abductions and attacks were to each other.

One thing I hadn't realized was how close the 'Claremont Subway'/Stop Sign attack was to the where the Karrakatta victim/survivor was abducted. Yes, I knew the subway is across from the park, but it looks much closer (if that's possible).

I believe the CSK was also responsible for the Subway/Stop Sign assault.

 

[Sutton]

An 'updated' attack list, with sources, is here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?106245-Sutton

There haven't really been any significant changes (inserted a source). I will repost to the main forum periodically or when there is an update.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The subway attempt was meant to be at a stop sign. There is no stop sign. But you do have to more or less stop right where the "m" in Claremont is in the above aerial shot. The only place he could have taken her too is the long grass in the top left hand corner of the shot. Back then there was a 5ft high timber fence frame with mesh wiring and the slip road wasn't sealed. He still would have had to get her over the fence.

Or is the stop sign on Melville St (heading west, cnr Gugeri). That means this man's vehicle would have been park on Reserve and highly likely he is Karrakatta man.

 

[aim2solve]

Bartholemeus, there was a post way back by GreenDevil about a well-informed MACRO suspect list. One of them mentioned matched this description.

 

[Sutton]

There is a stop sign where the white and black arrow is, bug this isn't quite "at" the subway as the 'm' was in your reply.

What about where the two blue markers are--would either of those work for parking?

Edit to add: Oops, you already suggested the left side marker as the best possibility.

 

[Bartholemeus]

View attachment 83515

There is a stop sign where the white and black arrow is, bug this isn't quite "at" the subway as the 'm' was in your reply.

What about where the two blue markers are--would either of those work for parking?

Edit to add: Oops, you already suggested the left side marker as the best possibility.

I don't think so. My first thoughts are too far away and therefore too risky. He would have to escort the girl all the way down the hill and would have no visibility of cars coming under the subway from the other side (i.e. from Shenton Rd). The top blue marker - now serves as a service road for maybe the show grounds or maybe the railway station? Anyway, the railways station wasn't there in 1996, not was the road. From memory it was just grass but I believe there was a gate to the side of the show ground wall for occasional entrance from Shenton Rd.

If that's the stop sign in question I'd be more inclined to think his car was parked over the other side of Gugeri St (i.e. somewhere near Rowe Park). He mau have planned to drag her into the bushes to the left of your arrow. That bike track also didn't exist.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Is it possible that it happened at the other subway (Stirling Rd)? There's a sop sign on the Claremont Crescent/Stirling Rd intersection. This looks like a better location to me from a risk perspective.

 

[Sutton]

Yes, if they're both known as the Claremont Subway, then it is just as possible. This is pretty much the only detail given:

Stop sign/Subway - January 01, 1994 (Saturday)
A man dragged a woman from her car after she had left Club Bay View. He tried to rape her, but she fought him off. (1)
A woman fights off man who dragged her from her car and tried to rape her near Claremont subway. (8)
A girl was waiting at the stop sign at the Claremont subway, was pulled from her vehicle and survived an attempted rape.(13)

 

[Sutton]

How noticeable would a panel van have been?

 

[Bartholemeus]

How noticeable would a panel van have been?

If it was parked outside your house - noticeable. Foreign car to the neighbourhood that has a bit of a bogan reputation. You'd probably ask yourself "I wonder which neighbour has a guest who owns a PV?". Anyone who doesn't live in the immediate vicinity wouldn't notice it unless it had a some sort of design on it;



Which is highly doubtful.

It's possible at that time of night there were no comers and goers from the immediate neighbours so no one had an opportunity to notice it. It also could have been parked in the carpark inside Rowe Park (I never knew this existed until I just saw it on google maps). If so, probably wouldn't get noticed. Another option is it wasn't a panel van. The PV stopped being reported very promptly. Most likely because police weren't 100% sure and didn't want the public to dismiss anything else that didn't involve a panel van.

The victim, even though she was blindfolded would have been able to ascertain that there was one attacker and a rough idea of the type of car. I'd assume if he had a Hi-Ace type van she would have heard the side door slide. A PV has entrance from the rear which might be the reason she thought it was a PV. It could have also been a hilux or ute with one of those hard canopies.