Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

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when you open the link check out a couple of things. LW *advertiser censored* his head slightly to the left as did MM. LW carries his jacket on right arm, as did MM1. LW has shirt sleeves rolled up as did MM1. LW has high forehead as did MM1.

If the link doesn't open to photos, in the search box use "lance williams" including inverts.

http://www.newspix.com.au/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2KERI32JOK63&SMLS=1&RW=960&RH=461

Also try "ciara glennon", "jane rimmer" and "sarah spiers" separately. Nice little photo of Mr and Mrs Williams sitting in their loungeroom and quite a few disposal site photos.
 
when you open the link check out a couple of things. LW *advertiser censored* his head slightly to the left as did MM. LW carries his jacket on right arm, as did MM1. LW has shirt sleeves rolled up as did MM1. LW has high forehead as did MM1.
I have met LW numerous times. LW is not MM1 nor MM. It's just not him fullstop.
 
I don't believe LW committed these, or any other crimes. Evidence is frequently misinterpreted.

I have watched and read hundreds of interviews and books about serial killers. That doesn't make me an expert, but LW is like no other serial murderer I've ever seen--in any way.

That could explain why he hasn't been caught though...

Most major serial killer investigations turn up suspects who seem linked in many aspects, but who end up being innocent.

What aspects of the profile does LW fit?
I think you should read DM's book. The circumstantial evidence is easily more compelling than any other suspect. On top of that, experts believe his behaviour during the interview process was consistent with someone who would commit such crimes. His behaviour whilst being under surveillance was also consistent with someone who would commit such crimes.

He may not be the CSK but to suggest he's not like any other serial killer is a stretch.

Early concussion - check
Loner and socially inept - check
Domineering mother - check
Sticks to routine - check
Disciplined - check
Stalks women incessently - check

That's not every serial killer but there's enough to form a group that fit that profile

Other circumstantial evidence

Lives local
Fits age profile
No alibi
Failed polygraph
stalked women in Claremont
Slow and deliberate when answering questions during interrogation
Was the only person offering girls lifts while Claremont was under surveillance
Killings stopped once he was under surveillance
Has a history of violence according to DM's book


Without DNA, he is hands down the most likely suspect. By a mile. The only thing that doesn't fit is how he got them into the car - but if there were blitz attacks then there is an explanation.


Here's what doesn't match with the Police's DNA line and recent media "leaks":

1. My understanding of fibre transfer is that it's unlikely they would find trace on JR after 5 months. I can't say that for certain because getting specifics through Google searches is not easy.

Perhaps GreenDevil can shed some light on this and point us all in the right direction?

2. Would the CSK have really put a DB with a slashed throat in the back of a new Commodore with no tarp, plastic, sheet etc? Our guy seems very organised. There's no doubt these murders were planned. There would have been a fair bit of blood.

3. If they had DNA (reportedly for a number of years), then why has their been no new campaigns built around it? If they have DNA then all they need is people to test. How do they get people - specifically the men with higher chances of being the CSK? Answer - a campaign with a view of getting people to report people so you can compare their DNA. The closest we have seen to that is the very media release we are currently talking about.

4. If they had DNA it would be front page of every newspaper in the country. But that's not what happened. One paper reported it, went sort of half hearted with "forensic link" and then later on slipped in DNA profile. Not even this paper used the words "DNA" as the title of the article. The other papers did report direct, they just reported what The Post claimed.

5. Bret Christian contradicted himself. In one part of the article he says the commodore fibres on JR were lost in 1996 and found in 2011, in another part of the same article he said they were found in 2004?



There's just too many things that don't add to be really confident the police have DNA. If there's DNA then it's not LW. If there's no DNA then he has to be the front runner still.
 
WRT the fibres found on JR's body, I would have to say that finding fibres like that on her after 5 months being exposed to the elements (wind, rain, animals etc) is highly unlikely. Having said that it is a possibility, albeit a very remote one.

Put it this way, you drive your car every day therefore some fibres would naturally transfer from your car seat to your body, as every contact leaves a trace. But, after you have a shower each night the fibres wash away, but there's a very very slim chance that some may remain behind because the shower missed them. As I said JR's body was left naked exposed to the elements for 5 months, keeping what I have just said in mind how likely do you think they recovered fibres from her body using tape lifts?

Would be interesting to know did they do the tape lifts at the scene or back at the mortuary? If so, how was she transported back to the mortuary?

What about the possibility of a fibre from a police vehicle transferring from the police forensic team (utilising their white commodores to drive to the scene) when they were processing the scene this could easily of happened. In fact, I would say that is the most likely occurrence. Have processed such scenes myself, I just can not believe they recovered fibres with tape lifts after 5 months.

It would be argued in court like that too. A car fibre found on the body of the victim that is identical to all the fibres that are in Police cars? Coincidence? I think not.
 
WRT the fibres found on JR's body, I would have to say that finding fibres like that on her after 5 months being exposed to the elements (wind, rain, animals etc) is highly unlikely. Having said that it is a possibility, albeit a very remote one.

Put it this way, you drive your car every day therefore some fibres would naturally transfer from your car seat to your body, as every contact leaves a trace. But, after you have a shower each night the fibres wash away, but there's a very very slim chance that some may remain behind because the shower missed them. As I said JR's body was left naked exposed to the elements for 5 months, keeping what I have just said in mind how likely do you think they recovered fibres from her body using tape lifts?
I recall the article saying a lot were lifted, which is why they know she wasn't seated in the car normally but lying down.

This is just one of many things that don't quite add up in the police's story.
Would be interesting to know did they do the tape lifts at the scene or back at the mortuary? If so, how was she transported back to the mortuary?
Probably in a brand new Commodore with a sign on the side that says Keystone Cops.
 
I've noticed it mentioned a few times recently that JR was out in the elements for 5 months, but I'm pretty sure she went missing in June, and was found in August. So only 2 months. Still a long time though in the rain.
 
I've noticed it mentioned a few times recently that JR was out in the elements for 5 months, but I'm pretty sure she went missing in June, and was found in August. So only 2 months. Still a long time though in the rain.
i think you're right. Not sure why i was thinking 5 monthsm I think it was 50 something days.

Does this change anything GD?
 
i think you're right. Not sure why i was thinking 5 monthsm I think it was 50 something days.

Does this change anything GD?

Just that it makes it slightly more likely that they'd find fibres, but still highly unlikely. What season is it in Perth at that time? Hot and dry or cold and wet?
 
Moderately cold and wet, it would have been end of autumn going into winter. I recall in DM's book she said there has been a lot of rain while JR was missing.
 
Can we rule out that the fibres weren't lifted from the alleged clothing found at the site?

Velcro is the best thing that I can think of that could readily keep fibres for long periods of time.

Surely the fibres are more likely to be transfer from boot/floor carpet than from the seats?
 
Morey is not the csk. He doesn`t have the nous for it in an upmarket spot like Claremont. Totally out of line Papertrail re the abn number etc you posted. Not professional for the inquiry profession you are in. Am surprised he does not send a 10 ft cronie over to Tas again.. He did 13 for the hooker abduction. That was cause he refused to say zip in the SMM disappearance. They may have DNA but no perp to link it to. Dummies should not have held onto the footage for so long. So if there is 2 of them then they may only have dna of one of them.
 
Morey is not the csk. He doesn`t have the nous for it in an upmarket spot like Claremont. Totally out of line Papertrail re the abn number etc you posted. Not professional for the inquiry profession you are in. Am surprised he does not send a 10 ft cronie over to Tas again.. He did 13 for the hooker abduction. That was cause he refused to say zip in the SMM disappearance. They may have DNA but no perp to link it to. Dummies should not have held onto the footage for so long. So if there is 2 of them then they may only have dna of one of them.

Parkie, I'm probably asking a question that has already been asked a million times, and I'm sorry, but do you think there is a link between the CSK and the Victoria Cafasso murder? Similar age and appearance, and he got away clean.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...iew-new-information-on-alleged-murder/6733320

The beach link is what triggered my interest.
 
Here are some interesting stats:

Brothel workers experienced objectionable behaviour of the following form from clients:

objection to condoms 9.7%;
obsessive desire for a particular worker 53.2%;
menaces and threats 12.1%;
nuisance phone calls 21%;
harassment without violence 21%;
robbery without violence 4%;
robbery with violence 4%;
rape at work 6.5%;
bashing or stabbing 7.2%.
Previous research showed much higher rates, with 20% of sex workers being
raped at work, and 33% otherwise assaulted.

That puts LW in the 53.2%;...and shows his behaviour as not being particularly notable.

Legislative Assembly
Tuesday, 6 May 2003 page 7059

*Sorry, having probs copying da link!

Google..type in "Legislative Assembly Darylyn Ugle" (very interesting reading)
 
"Morey is not the csk. He doesn`t have the nous for it in an upmarket spot like Claremont. Totally out of line Papertrail re the abn number etc you posted. Not professional for the inquiry profession you are in. Am surprised he does not send a 10 ft cronie over to Tas again.. He did 13 for the hooker abduction. That was cause he refused to say zip in the SMM disappearance. They may have DNA but no perp to link it to. Dummies should not have held onto the footage for so long. So if there is 2 of them then they may only have dna of one of them. "

Yes they may have DNA...But W.A is riddled with sex offenders because sex offences are low priority crimes with WAPOL. Boys will be boys after all! Where the hell do they start?
 
There appears to be many assumptions and presumptions being made by a couple of contributors who obviously believe me to be somebody that I am not; and I have received some very very strange private messages that do show some rather strange people are on here.

I will state this once. I have never lived in Tasmania, and would never wish to. I live in an eastern state and also have a couple of properties in Western Australia that I visit (occasionally). I have no idea what you all are referring to. I have not worked in any field for some 25 years; the money I live off is obtained from investments.

Articles that I have been posting were given to me a few years ago as part of an inheritance. Well not quite an inheritance but a dear friend who had collected them requested her family to pass them onto me. This came about because every time I visited her she would discuss the cases and I always said to her, if you ever go before me make sure your family doesn't just throw out what you have collected.

I posted the information about Mr Morey because Bartholomeus and Parkie kept raising his name (being linked to Sarah McMahon's disappearance) so I decided to do a bit of reading and only posted the information I did because I believed it to be relative to the discussion regarding printing ink etc. I included all the detail I did, because I realized that if I just put up something that didn't link it all together many of you would have had a go at me. I did not post the phone number deliberately because I do understand that phone numbers can be transferred to other users.

If you believe the information should not have been posted, raise the issue with the moderator.

If this nastiness and vitriol keeps up, I'm out of here. Stop bringing personal issues to the table.

END
 
There appears to be many assumptions and presumptions being made by a couple of contributors who obviously believe me to be somebody that I am not; and I have received some very very strange private messages that do show some rather strange people are on here.

I will state this once. I have never lived in Tasmania, and would never wish to. I live in an eastern state and also have a couple of properties in Western Australia that I visit (occasionally). I have no idea what you all are referring to. I have not worked in any field for some 25 years; the money I live off is obtained from investments.

Articles that I have been posting were given to me a few years ago as part of an inheritance. Well not quite an inheritance but a dear friend who had collected them requested her family to pass them onto me. This came about because every time I visited her she would discuss the cases and I always said to her, if you ever go before me make sure your family doesn't just throw out what you have collected.

I posted the information about Mr Morey because Bartholomeus and Parkie kept raising his name (being linked to Sarah McMahon's disappearance) so I decided to do a bit of reading and only posted the information I did because I believed it to be relative to the discussion regarding printing ink etc. I included all the detail I did, because I realized that if I just put up something that didn't link it all together many of you would have had a go at me. I did not post the phone number deliberately because I do understand that phone numbers can be transferred to other users.

If you believe the information should not have been posted, raise the issue with the moderator.

If this nastiness and vitriol keeps up, I'm out of here. Stop bringing personal issues to the table.

END

Papertrail I very much appreciate your contributions to the thread, especially where you have provided supporting material.

Also, along with Bart you provide appropriate and very useful moderation where some posters have made unfounded assertions. Sometimes in their enthusiasm I am sure they just forget to flag its "IMO"

Please honour your friend's wishes and continue your contributions.
 
Actually I don`t keep mentioning DM. Others do. I just say that Claremont girls would give him a wide berth. No dna linking anyone to JR & Karrakatta victim.
 
Parkie, I'm probably asking a question that has already been asked a million times, and I'm sorry, but do you think there is a link between the CSK and the Victoria Cafasso murder? Similar age and appearance, and he got away clean.

Definitely no link.
 
on the DNA i wonder did the perp visit the victims after disposal
he could of left evidence right up until the girls were found ,both girls were found well of the road and well hidden if he was visiting which i think he was were would he park, he was in a 2wd so he was unable to go bush,, in CGs case there was a horse riding facility not far up the road did he have a horse .was he dying horse rugs,bandages towels etc a commodore station wagon is ideal for towing horses and carrying saddles and tack etc just a thought
 
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