Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[delbertGrady]

J-35: developer and fixer are the chemicals used in darkroom photography, they don't have much of a colour, but the developer does stain a brown or blue-ish colour if it is spilled onto white clothing though. I think the chemicals would be quite different to dye. That scenario did also cross my mind too though.

I find the police's choice of words(or Brett Christian's) Interesting... regarding the screen printing clue.. 'the killer has a 'way of putting coloured words and patterns onto fabric''... something along those lines.
What that statement makes me think, is that he has possibly printed words or patterns onto the girls clothes, or other fabric which was with one of the bodies.
Really, why would they say he has a way of making coloured words or patterns, unless they have seen such a thing in the evidence?

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Hobbytex?

 

[Elwood_1]

just been having a yak with a screen printer she explained that ovens are used for drying but a line would be used for things like table clothes bed sheets and also roles of fabric she is of the opinion the ink would not run as it would only be damp so i think the girls were no doubt tied with line impregnated with different coloured dye also on the cop theory. if it was a cop why didnt he use hand cuffs

Handcuffs leave distinctive marks if there is a struggle, and if the victim escaped the officer would have a very awkward time explaining where his went, and how a kidnap victim turned up in a pair just like his. The WAPOL had handcuffs, or you could buy them from army surplus stores. Wellington Surplus had them, which is actually on the same road as Police Headquarters, and the Traffic Branch in East Perth. The police cuffs were quite distinctive, and could be closed and locked without using a key. The WS ones actually required a pin on the key itself to be used to set the lock. Cable ties didn't really exist back then either. Same as duct tape. Not common items.

 

[Elwood_1]

If it was a white VS Commodore it was almost certainly a fleet or commercial vehicle.

The biggest users: WAPOL, Army (Campbell, Irwin Barracks), Telstra (unlikely), or from one of the other big government departments (Health, Main Roads, Education, Prisons, Lands and Surveys, etc., but they all had Govt plates, but sometimes no decals or other identifying marks).

Irwin is an interesting one. It is right across the railway line from Karrakatta Cemetery.

If a girl was talking to someone in a VS she either knew him/them, or felt safe in talking to a stranger (cop) on the side of the road late at night.

As an FYI, if the guy was SAS, just dropping that into the conversation in that area would have had half the underpants in the pub coming off. Girls (and boys) would have been begging to be taken home by him.

As for printing, screen printing is easy, same as tie dye. You can do it at home. Commercial printing back then was being shaken up by digital, and there was a massive conglomeration and shuttering of small players going on. Where do you see a lot of screen printed articles for sale? Markets. Gnangara, Wanneroo, Canningvale, Subiaco (close to Claremont), and Fremantle. Fremantle is interesting, as the market is on the next street to the police station.

Oh! I nearly forgot. WAPOL didn't carry badges as ID back then. They had photo ID. However, around that time there was a real cop who had taken his hat badge off and stuck it in a leather wallet and used to flash it at people. Real FBI stuff. He did it to a police sergeants wife in an Armadale liquor store one day, and she was able to identify him. I believe he was given some stern professional guidance off the record after being shown the error of his ways. I doubt that anything ended up on his file. I believe he was from Fremantle General Duties, but I may be wrong.

 

[Elwood_1]

Can we conclusively rule out a photography dark room? Line would be used to hang photo prints

No. Usually monofilament, using stainless steel hangers. The acetic acid in the Fixer will destroy most flexible plastics, and textiles.

 

[kevmoley]

how smart was he
i dont think this bloke was thinking that far ahead, he got spotted in his car talking to CG ,if he was mm he got spotted in the club,the karrakatta victim spotted his car and got away with vital evidence he also left dna hardly the work of a trained officer ''then again'

We are to believe that he was smart enough not to use handcuffs because that could lead us to believe he is a cop but using his company car doesn't? It is not a cop (my opinion).

 

[papertrail]

J-35: developer and fixer are the chemicals used in darkroom photography, they don't have much of a colour, but the developer does stain a brown or blue-ish colour if it is spilled onto white clothing though. I think the chemicals would be quite different to dye. That scenario did also cross my mind too though.

I find the police's choice of words(or Brett Christian's) Interesting... regarding the screen printing clue.. 'the killer has a 'way of putting coloured words and patterns onto fabric''... something along those lines.
What that statement makes me think, is that he has possibly printed words or patterns onto the girls clothes, or other fabric which was with one of the bodies.
Really, why would they say he has a way of making coloured words or patterns, unless they have seen such a thing in the evidence?

Delbert, I support what you are saying about Bret's choice of words. That is what I have been saying for ages. And what I find interesting about his choice of words, he did not use the phrase 'screen printing'.

LW was a heavy user of prostitutes; using services up to 3 times a day (at times) and he always gave the prostitute a small 'gift' wrapped in a hand towel (supplied by the brothel) after showering. He wouldn't present the gift direct to the girl, he would hide it. It didn't matter how many times a day a saw a particular girl, she got a gift on each occasion. He had apparently had an insatiable appetite for 'hand' sex. One particular Claremont based prostitute made contact with WA police and told them a story that LW used her services (her parents had no idea of the type of work she was into) and one day turned up at her residential address (she lived with her parents). She had no idea how he obtained her address. She reported the visit by LW on 1/12/1995 to Claremont police station. I've got a newspaper article I'll dig out that mentions this date. Debi Marshall has detailed the prostitute's 'gift' story and LW's 'visits' in the book.

He's either found out her address via motor registration details or stalked her.

But the issue under discussion here is 'coloured words and pictures onto fabric'. I think LW would have taken great pleasure preparing his 'gifts' and I have no doubt there has been something left at one or both of the disposal sites. The clothing left at JR's site could possibly be the 'evidence'. This 'clothing' has only ever been mentioned once; and that was the day after JR's remains were located ! I've already pasted the article in thread #2.

 

[Basilisk]

J-35: developer and fixer are the chemicals used in darkroom photography, they don't have much of a colour, but the developer does stain a brown or blue-ish colour if it is spilled onto white clothing though. I think the chemicals would be quite different to dye. That scenario did also cross my mind too though.

I find the police's choice of words(or Brett Christian's) Interesting... regarding the screen printing clue.. 'the killer has a 'way of putting coloured words and patterns onto fabric''... something along those lines.
What that statement makes me think, is that he has possibly printed words or patterns onto the girls clothes, or other fabric which was with one of the bodies.
Really, why would they say he has a way of making coloured words or patterns, unless they have seen such a thing in the evidence?

I think the elucidation is just a standard definition of screen printing, for those who might not know what it is. I wouldn't read too much into it; police do this type of defining elucidation routinely in describing evidence.

 

[papertrail]

We are to believe that he was smart enough not to use handcuffs because that could lead us to believe he is a cop but using his company car doesn't? It is not a cop (my opinion).

Kev I agree with you re 'it's not a cop'. We all have to remember that from the time the WA Police recognized that Sarah Spiers' disappearance was 'no girl runaway' they started paying extra attention to the area. Then when Jane was abducted, a little more attention, and then after her remains were discovered a little more attention.

Can anyone recall if the police had undercover operatives in the area the night that Jane was abducted and the night Ciara was abducted ? If they did, then that would be the perfect excuse for a perp to use and perhaps flash a false badge or ID.

It seems to me that Club Bayview was the perp's initial 'zone' - - 2 rapes 1992 near Swanbourne railway station; both victims had been to Club Bayview, 1 attempted rape near Claremont Subway victim 1/12/94 had been to Club Bayview, Karrakatta victim 12/2/95 had been to Club Bayview and Sarah Spiers 27/1/1996 at Club Bayview and female witness made statement to WA Police about man offering her a lift after she exited at same time as SS; with SS turning left and witness turning right on exiting Club Bayview, that 'zone' includes the phone booth in Stirling Road that SS used.

Then after SS's disappearance, the Club setup a taxi rank in St Quentin Ave and cctv was installed outside the Conti and bouncers escorted girls from the Conti to Club Bayview (newspaper reports) and they installed a taxi desk. Was cctv also installed outside Club Bayview ? Why I ask is both establishments were owned (in partnership with others) by Sainken.

After SS perp then sexually attacked woman in carpark off Church Lane and at rear of Club Bayview. Look on google earth to see how close this location is to Hungry Jacks (relevance below) ! Perp has then moved his attention to the Conti area and there was a taxi rank operating on Gugeri opposite the Conti (newspaper reports) but Jane just stood outside the Conti so this shows (in my mind) that she was not waiting for a taxi.

If the perp was at (inside) the Conti the night JR was taken it may be possible the police actually showed him the cctv footage not realizing he is MM (possibly my MM1 guy; Det Stanbury said they had shown footage to over 700 people.

For CG abduction perp has moved totally away from cctv cameras and abducted on the highway with CG witnessed opposite Hungry Jacks; although there is cctv footage of CG inside the Conti, it has never been released ! Why ?

RE CG being sighted opposite Hungry Jacks, it is quite apparent from detail in the Marshall book, that LW had a 'set in concrete' ritual.

He left home at exactly 11.50pm every Thursday through Sunday (inclusive), on a couple of occasions he left home at 12.30pm, drove 30 or so loops through Claremont and then onto Northbridge 'red light area' which may be Highgate (we know he used prostitutes - could he be Bayens' perp ?). MM1 is 1st captured on cctv (that we know of) at 11.58.59. How long would it take to drive ex Eric Street or Marine Parade to Bay View Terrace, park and be exiting Club Bayview at 11.58.59 ? If MM1 is indeed MM, then has MM1 entered the Conti through the back door, walked straight through and exited the door at 11.58.59; would the timing be right ? Same question goes for MM but he 1st appeared on cctv at 00.01.41 outside the Conti (no entry into or exiting Conti that we know of).

Has he left home at 11.50 because he knew the Conti closed just after midnight and the patrons would move onto Club Bayview ?

Taxi for SS arrived ex Eric Street taxi rank; we know LW lived nearby. Did LW have access to a two-way radio system to listen in on taxi radio band ?

SS and JR had attended OBH which is situated at the corner of Eric Street. Then we have the rape victim from 1989 ex OBH as well.

Part of LW's 'set in concrete' ritual was to use Hungry Jack's drive through to obtain a chocolate milkshake. Is that what he did the night that CG was taken ? Did he first set eyes on her whilst he was at Hungry Jacks ? Did he hear one of the 3 guys warn her not to hitch, with CG waving off their concern and continuing her journey home, thereby showing her vulnerability to LW ???

Have a look on google earth just how close the intersection of Stirling Rd / Stirling Hwy and Eric St / Marine Parade are.

Something that stands out for me, is the LW lost his drivers' license due to drink driving offenses and regained it 2 days after Sarah's abduction. That means he regained his license on Monday 29th January. If he is responsible, he would have been driving without a license on the night of the Karrakatta rape and SS. Would he have risked driving extended distance to a disposal site or would he have waited to dispose until he was 'legal' to drive ?

I note that Marshall details that one of LW's closest friends died in mid 1995 and that he gave up (cold turkey) drinking alcohol (had been a heavy drinker) and smoking immediately after this death. What was this death caused by; road accident perhaps in the white panel van with someone responsible driving under the influence of alcohol ? Was LW present ? Did his friend languish and die months after the accident ? Was anybody else involved and that person died prior to 12/2/1995 Karrakatta cemetery rape ?

Note: Newspaper article from 2010 (?) police are testing cigarette butts located in Julie Cutler's Fiat sports vehicle and apparently those butts are of a different brand than she used. Could LW be involved there ???

Police also collected cigarette butts from the CG scene (detailed in press reports).

Something about MM's (and MM1's) hair tells me it may be a wig (perhaps human hair). If the DNA evidence left behind on CG and the Karrakatta rape victim is hair, then that hair may be from the wig and that is why they cannot link their suspect DNA to the forensic evidence.

Note: If you have a copy of the book, check out the photograph of Caporn captured 5 months after CG's abduction / murder. He is standing on the pedestrian overbridge that I pointed out a few weeks ago. Gives you a really good view of the Conti and surrounds. This is where the perp may have stood watching, lurking, waiting for opportunity.

 

[Basilisk]

If it was a white VS Commodore it was almost certainly a fleet or commercial vehicle.

The biggest users: WAPOL, Army (Campbell, Irwin Barracks), Telstra (unlikely), or from one of the other big government departments (Health, Main Roads, Education, Prisons, Lands and Surveys, etc., but they all had Govt plates, but sometimes no decals or other identifying marks).

Irwin is an interesting one. It is right across the railway line from Karrakatta Cemetery.

If a girl was talking to someone in a VS she either knew him/them, or felt safe in talking to a stranger (cop) on the side of the road late at night.

As an FYI, if the guy was SAS, just dropping that into the conversation in that area would have had half the underpants in the pub coming off. Girls (and boys) would have been begging to be taken home by him.

As for printing, screen printing is easy, same as tie dye. You can do it at home. Commercial printing back then was being shaken up by digital, and there was a massive conglomeration and shuttering of small players going on. Where do you see a lot of screen printed articles for sale? Markets. Gnangara, Wanneroo, Canningvale, Subiaco (close to Claremont), and Fremantle. Fremantle is interesting, as the market is on the next street to the police station.

Oh! I nearly forgot. WAPOL didn't carry badges as ID back then. They had photo ID. However, around that time there was a real cop who had taken his hat badge off and stuck it in a leather wallet and used to flash it at people. Real FBI stuff. He did it to a police sergeants wife in an Armadale liquor store one day, and she was able to identify him. I believe he was given some stern professional guidance off the record after being shown the error of his ways. I doubt that anything ended up on his file. I believe he was from Fremantle General Duties, but I may be wrong.

Nice deductions Elwood. ALSO, military or police are routinely posted (military often overseas), so this would neatly explain the big mystery about why the murders stopped.

 

[papertrail]

http://www.fabricprinter.com.au/Printing-Embroidery/Screen-Printing.aspx?source=GoogleSearchNetwork&device=c&campaign=172036671&adgroup=9233566671&keyword=screen%20printing&matchtype=p&placement=&adposition=1s2&location=1011036&gclid=COqouOnSzckCFZEsvQodzWYGDQ

 

[papertrail]

Right now on Google there seems to be no clothesline. The common areas have been refreshed since 1996 and I seem to recall a really stark concrete car park at the back, possible raised double story car park.

are you able to do a screen shot of address and post please ?

do you know parents address in Eric St ?

 

[papertrail]

Whatever the case re abduction - the car fibers indicate that the white commodore was a disposal vehicle.

The article said the fibers could not come from sitting regularly in a vehicle. Which means the victims must have been driven to disposal sites while deceased/lying down.

This guy is obviously not the same IQ as Highgate boot man, because he has not used plastic lining in his boot/back of car.

So, given that he obviously doesn't care about traces of the victims being found inside the car - does this mean it is actually his car he is using?

I still can't believe he allowed himself to be spotted talking to CG on stirling highway by just randomly pulling up with no thought given to potential witnesses on a busy road. Same with SS by the sounds of it.

Billy, what I take from this is that the perp was 'in the zone' and 'on his mission' and possibly had camouflaged his appearance in some way maybe by wearing a wig. He was brazen.

P163 Marshall details a telephone conversation she had with LW in which she asked him if he'd hired a car. "and the rumour that before you got your licence back - the timing of which would have made it impossible to abduct Sarah Spiers - you hired a car ? Did you ?

LW: "not true. The only time I've ever hired a car is in Penang with my parents in 1980. And as if I'd suddenly start driving again after all those years and then murder somebody".

Very telling answer.

Did he walk to the Claremont brothel, sometimes up to 3 times a day ? How did he manage to land on the prostitutes' parent's doorstep, by foot ? Did he go to work at Department of Main Roads in East Perth using public transport ? How did he get to the casino ? What kind of vehicle did his parents have ? Did he ever use that vehicle ? He was one of 5 children; what kinds of vehicles did they have ? His friend that died in 1995; what kind of vehicle did they have ?

Strange how he just happened to obtain his driver's license just 2 days after SS. He would have had to sit for a totally new drivers' examination and driving test. P 122 - - Lost his license in 1984 for drink driving x 3rd conviction (2 before he was 20) and became eligible to drive again in mid 1994 which means he would have had to commence the process from the beginning.

He did have a vehicle at the time SS disappeared !

 

[Basilisk]

There was another comment on here about fingerprinting/DNA testing officers. There is NO WAY the Police Union would allow that, and senior management would have a screaming fit if a finger was ever pointed inwards. If a cop ended up in court he is likely to start spilling his guts about everything he knows. That could make some very senior individuals very, very, nervous. It would never happen.

Thanks for the perspective Elwood. However, the WAPOL recruitment website advises the following requiremnets:
~[h=3]Stage 3 Assessments[/h]

• Final Health/Medical Assessment
• Identifying Particulars - Fingerprints and DNA
• Bankruptcy Check
• Full Background and Integrity Check

 

[GreenDevil]

I like where you are going with this Papertrail, you ask a lot of questions that beg some interesting answers.

The most suspicious thing for me with regards to LW was his trolling and driving around Claremont as you described. This is the exact behaviour that the CSK would almost certainly had to have used to choose vulnerable girls leaving Conti or CBV. There's just no possible way he was driving past and happened to notice the three girls walking alone, he definitely stalked them before hand, which is also a trait that LW is reportedly excellent at doing undetected.

It's not widely known, but Police did use a brilliant idea/system to assist in identifying vehicles trolling through the Claremont area. They set up secret surveillance cameras that filmed the streets in and around Claremont with high quality video camera. From memory it helped to identify LW as a suspect amongst others.

LW fits the profile of the killer in almost every aspect.
LW failed a polygraph test and the retired FBI agent was certain he committed the crimes
LW was interviewed extensively by a psychologist whom reported that LW was capable of committing the crimes
LW picked up a police decoy lady walking the streets of Claremont. (It's important to remember, no one else picked up the decoy, only LW did) To me this is crucial evidence that goes against him.
LW does not have an alibi for any of the nights the girls went missing (I wonder about his Alibi for the night/day of the Karrakatta rape) the one alibi he did have was based upon his parents saying that he was at home (he could of easily snuck out when they were asleep)

There's more evidence that's circumstantially connects him to an injury sustained on CG's skull, but I can't go into that.

 

[blinky]

hello does anyone find it a little strange that the police know that it was a" White" Holden Commodore vs series 1. while its conceivable that that the police could know the make of car due to material/fabric/fibres found as evidence on the bodies. Its inconceivable that the police could know the colour of the car due to this reason. you would imagine that the same material/fabric/fibres in the seats of all makes in that particular type of car regardless of colour of car. the police have obviously got more evidence such as footage or a very solid suspect that they knew drove this type of car. I think the police know who did these terrible things and they are getting close.

 

[lavagirl]

I thought that particular fabric was only used on the white cars.

This is the case with most cars as the interior colour will complement the exterior colour of the car.

 

[blinky]

maybe......... although my experience in buying and knowing how they are manufactured says its not right. yes you have your choices of vinyl ,leather ect. maybe even patterns, but to only be available in" WHITE" Holden Commodores VS series 1. and no other colours NO way.

 

[GreenDevil]

maybe......... although my experience in buying and knowing how they are manufactured says its not right. yes you have your choices of vinyl ,leather ect. maybe even patterns, but to only be available in" WHITE" Holden Commodores VS series 1. and no other colours NO way.

Yeah I'm pretty sure white only came with the one colour fabric and from memory that was a light blue colour. You couldn't have any other coour as it wouldn't suit.

 

[blinky]

well good luck sleuthers hope you solve the crime.