Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

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perhaps the junior police officer nabbed in police decoy operation was the one that Bayens referred to (not the lined boot guy) but Bayens did say that a (or was it a couple) of police officers had been nabbed in his decoy operation.
 
Could well be Morey. McMahon inquest has detail of when Sarah McMahon had met Morey -- 2 years before she disappeared. She was taken in November 2000, therefore he was out sometime in 1998. He was arrested for attempted murder of street worker late December 2003, early January 2004. Attempted murder occurred on 12/3/03.

Bayens' correspondence (link below) mentions his decoy operations ran between July 2000 - August 2002.

Interesting that the attempted murder occurred after the decoy operation had finalized. so too did the disappearance of Darrylyn Ugle 25/3/2003 who was an associate of the attempted murder woman and worked the same area in Highgate. Early reports after Sarah McMahon's disappearance linked Morey to the Ugle disappearance and subsequent murder.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...with-wa-police-about-claremont-investigation/
 
Not really but some of us were sceptical of story. From memory there was something that didn't add up in his story. Questions were asked of him and he never posted again. I think the assumption was he was probably fibbing. Not uncommon regarding this case.


I appreciate your opinion Bart but that's not what happened. I did my best to answer questions given that it was such a long time ago. I stopped reading because I lost interest in all the in-fighting and the numerology/printing colours/Irish saint's days etc theories that were being posted at the time and felt the thread was being deliberately derailed by the kind of nutcases that are attracted to these forums. Can you remember which parts didn't add up, as I'd be happy to address them if I can.


I've been ghosting the new thread for a little while and I have to say it's very interesting reading. I'm not up to the current page yet but can anyone tell me if any links were provided for media or evidence about the UWA rapes another contributor posted then deleted?
cheers!
 
Re the plotting of where people were in Claremont on the nights

JR - it is only mentioned that they have identified people seen in security footage in CIA doco
CG - this is the night where they tried to plot who/where everyone was in Claremont and tried to speak to them all.

[video=youtube;nNNF1E3mg3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNNF1E3mg3c[/video]
47:30 of the vid.
States they are referring to night of CG when they tried to find everyone who was in Claremont. (it is a journalist who states this)

They don't know everyone who was in Claremont on night of JR.


They also showed original footage of MM to 700 people before the public saw it.
 
I appreciate your opinion Bart but that's not what happened. I did my best to answer questions given that it was such a long time ago. I stopped reading because I lost interest in all the in-fighting and the numerology/printing colours/Irish saint's days etc theories that were being posted at the time and felt the thread was being deliberately derailed by the kind of nutcases that are attracted to these forums. Can you remember which parts didn't add up, as I'd be happy to address them if I can.


I've been ghosting the new thread for a little while and I have to say it's very interesting reading. I'm not up to the current page yet but can anyone tell me if any links were provided for media or evidence about the UWA rapes another contributor posted then deleted?
cheers!
I think these were the parts that didn't add up (but maybe they do with your explanation?) -

You said moved to Claremont in mid 90s. Which would have made you 19-20 at time, is that correct? You said you were on the dole, living alone in a house in Claremont with a huge backyard that contained fishing rods, bicycles etc. Walking to UWA?

One query I had was how do you rent a house in Claremont with a huge backyard that is full of fishing rods and bicycles if just for one person whose source of income is government benefits? Was renting really that cheap back then?
 
Okay, I am.

Does anyone have any comments about Dr. DA? According to DM's book, he:

1. Was friends with Susan Christie (missing from Perth since 2001), he may have been one of the last known people to have seen Susan
(Warning: Adult content ads on the page)
http://wa.general.narkive.com/N0OD6w4o/jury-told-of-sleazy-doctor

2. Sold his house to the McMahons; was Sarah McMahon's doctor

3. Was told by a client that Ciara was being kept alive for a few days, but she was going to be sacrificed in a ritual. DA contacted Macro with the story, and also relayed it Ciara's boss, Neil Fearis

Sutton I have found this quote on an old web page: http://blogs.watoday.com.au/yoursay/2008/08/claremont_killi.html?page=fullpage#comments

I haven't read DM's book. Does it specifically mention Yanchep in relation to the above like this user claims? Otherwise this user has got outside knowledge of what this patient said to her psych/is making stuff up.


Brentyboy
September 02, 2008
09:38 AM

There is the case of the girl that told her doctor Ciara was to be used as a sacrifice at the Autumnal Equinox. The information was that Ciara's murder would take place at The Spot in Yanchep. This girl was actually followed for a couple of days but nothing come of it.

It was only when they found Ciara's body, and she was only a few kilometers from Yanchep. The police found that Very Very Odd.....
 
Here's a few things I wanted to mention that I've been ruminating on since I started reading this thread again.

One is related to your post above, BillyWhizz. I spent a month or so (from memory) dealing with Macro back then, including phone calls, informal chats on my front veranda with detectives, interviews at the main station in town across from the museum, a polygraph test with an antagonistic American expert AND giving my DNA via an oral swab. Not once did they ever ask me to view any CCTV footage from any of those nights and they wouldn't tell me if I was definitely on any of the cctv footage or which nights they believed I was in the area. I had assumed I'd been seen on cctv footage and identified by someone (how though?) Otherwise the sole reason I was interviewed by Macro was because a malicious ex gave my details to crimestoppers. That means my backyard was searched without my consent, my place of work visited by homicide detectives and my DNA saved in a lab somewhere as a POI in a serial murder investigation all on information provided by a time-waster with a grudge because a relationship turned nasty. I wonder how much police time was wasted by looking into people who were completely unrelated to the case and how this affected the investigation overall. Macro's tunnel vision regarding LW seems like an excruciating waste of time and money looking back on it.

For example during the 1990s and early 2000's, at various times during those 10 -14 years I...



* Attended UWA and knew the campus like the back of my hand and was often there very late at night
*Took martial arts classes at the scout hall behind the yacht club just down from Matilda Bay on Australia II Drive
*Checked out UWA judo club a couple of times
*Took boxing lessons at Claremont PCYC
*Tried to pick up girls at bars and nightclubs in Claremont, Northbridge, Subiaco etc
*Worked at MLC in Claremont. That's a private girl's school for those not from Perth: Methodist Ladies College
*Spent time in Claremont late at night walking to and from Fresh Provisions (or whatever it was called back then) and Hungry Jacks
*Changed my appearance. Wore long hair then shaved it off for a crew cut, grew a full beard then shaved it off etc..
*Chatted up random drunk girls at the UWA tav
*Read criminology, psychology, and serial killer investigation books from the UWA Reid library
*lived alone
*Went to the OBH
*Watched *advertiser censored*
*Threatened an intruder with a crowbar after I woke up and found him in my lounge room (Royal Show attracts them every year)
*Lived in Nedlands and Claremont
*Walked through Karrakatta cemetery at midnight (and later) to get home via Loch St Station
*Was involved in at least one unstable relationship
*Had short term relationships
*Was questioned by police for being out and about at 3am walking
*Worked as a security guard and had access to secure areas at night, had the opportunity to buy a cattle-prod style stun gun from a colleague who knew a taxi driver who was selling them and wore a uniform that I observed people (especially women) to recognise as a symbol of authority. In that job, I walked young female staff to their cars late at night, I knew their addresses and phone numbers, their relationship status, if they lived alone or with someone else, if they had a dog, if they lived in a house or apartment, where they went on weekends, where they parked etc. I completed training in self-defence/restraint techniques with handcuffs and baton as part of that job. I was shown how and then assisted in breaking into people's cars when they had locked their keys inside, I had to restrain people once or twice to help break up arguments, got angry once or twice and shouted at trouble makers, pushed one or two to the ground during scuffles etc
*Had girlfriends as far away as Forrestfield, kalamunda and Lesmurdie, Warnboro, Safety Bay, and spent time at their houses

I could go on and on. But the point is if someone suspected me of having committed a sexual assault or violent crime, they might use any number of the above as examples to prove that I am definitely a good suspect and probably guilty (has a history of violence, lives alone, a pattern of unstable relationships, martial arts background, access to dangerous and illegal weapons, knows the area, is an avid viewer of *advertiser censored*, inconsistent employment history, a loner, previous involvement with police, has a history of approaching attractive young girls late at night, shifty behaviour, knowledge of police procedures, forensics etc, travels across a broad geographical area etc) I'm even thinking twice about MYSELF just reading back through the list!

People can turn anything into anything if they have the motivation to do so. I'm not saying LW and SR or TT, Morey etc are all misunderstood upstanding citizens, more that there must have been MANY innocent blokes who were put through the wringer because their past was interpreted as a shady and an ex or someone with an axe to grind dropped them in it to create mischief. That's my thoughts for the day anyway lol.
 
I think these were the parts that didn't add up (but maybe they do with your explanation?) -

You said moved to Claremont in mid 90s. Which would have made you 19-20 at time, is that correct? You said you were on the dole, living alone in a house in Claremont with a huge backyard that contained fishing rods, bicycles etc. Walking to UWA?

One query I had was how do you rent a house in Claremont with a huge backyard that is full of fishing rods and bicycles if just for one person whose source of income is government benefits? Was renting really that cheap back then?

Cheers!

G'day Mr Whizz,

Yep that a fair enough question. The house I lived in back then was my nan and pop's place. When he died my nan moved to a retirement place and I moved in to look after it while my family worked out what they were going to do as far as selling it, renting it out etc. I didn't pay rent but I was expected to keep the front lawn and the roses nice etc. Which didn't happen :D It was an old claremont house with a bore water well and a huge backyard but not the lush pool and landscaped garden style you're probably thinking..it was rows of veggies along lines and poles in the ground, a lot of soil and a lemon tree. There was a wood pile covered with tarp, bags of blood and bone and compost and crap everywhere, an old hand wound washing line in the middle of the yard. The fishing gear, old bikes, tools etc were my pop's and it had about 40 years worth of dust and 70s tuppaware accumulated inside. I lived there for about 3-4 years from memory rent free even after I'd found a job because they wouldn't sell it or rent it while my nan was alive. Once She passed on I moved out and we rented it to UWA students for a couple years then eventually sold it. I can see how you wondered how a 20 year old on the dole could live in a big claremont house but it wasn't like a fancy Jutland Parade Dalkeith house.
 
Here's a few things I wanted to mention that I've been ruminating on since I started reading this thread again.

One is related to your post above, BillyWhizz. I spent a month or so (from memory) dealing with Macro back then, including phone calls, informal chats on my front veranda with detectives, interviews at the main station in town across from the museum, a polygraph test with an antagonistic American expert AND giving my DNA via an oral swab.


Thanks for answering. Just one more for the moment:


In the first thread you said this:
2. I lived in the area and am a bit of a night-owl so I was often out and about in the wee small hours. My guess is that, plus a malicious ex's story were enough to make me worth looking into. I was on the dole back then and had too much free time on my hands plus I lived alone (those were the days!) I often got pulled up by the police asking me what I was doing walking around Claremont or Stirling Highway at 2am but I was happy to give my ID and have a chat because I wasn't up to anything. Just restless. Quite innocent normally but during that time I guess it looked pretty suspicious. I remember LW pulling up to offer me a lift many times during those years but we can talk more about him another time if you're ever interested.

But then

They asked me if I had access to a taxi specifically, and if I knew any of the victims personally. They wanted to know my whereabouts on and around specific dates but I don't think I came up with a solid alibi for those dates which was why they asked me to agree to a polygraph test. I know they were very unhappy that I didn't agree to a search of my property but in my mind it was ridiculous that I was a POI in the first place. I already had homicide detectives visiting my work, talking to my neighbours etc. Wasn't letting them sniff through my house as well.


Can you clarify? I thought they were only checking on you over a month and you were on the dole?
 
In an unrelated, but just as tragic case a man is facing trial in South Australia for the murder of young Louise Bell. DNA was recovered from a pyjama top of Louise's, which was found on a neighbours property. The little girls body has never been found. Apparently, it was examined in 1983 (for blood- pre DNA), then in 2005. In 2009, the top was sent to the Netherlands, where it remained for 2 years. The very weak DNA profile has been now been matched to a suspect, who is on trial. This article describes the find as something that will help determine not only Pfennig’s innocence or guilt, but the future use of a pioneering forensic testing method in Australia and around the world.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...l/news-story/291db88d93da1017763b94ea24fb6fb3

I would really like to know if there is any DNA evidence in this case.
 
Hi Bill,

I worked part-time/studied part-time for lot of those years, and during holidays I went off Austudy and onto the dole. I took time off study and was on unemployment and at other times I worked full-time, or not at all and got unemployment benefits. I can recall clearly that they visited my workplace in the city on a day that I wasn't there (as I only worked part time at that job) because my boss and workmates gave me sh**t about the police asking for me. I told them it was because I lived in Claremont and had been to that hotel they wanted to talk to me (or something similar) because I was mortified that they had gone to my work. To be frank with you I am a little bit hazy about how long the whole process took from first contact to when they told me i was in the clear. It might have been more than a month because they visited me a couple of times at home and tried really hard to get my consent to search my place. It wasn't like we spent a month in an interview room everyday. They would ring me and organise a time to come around, ask me questions then go away with what I'd told them, come back in a week or so and ask more questions and this happened a few times. I rang legal aid and asked wtf do i do, and there were at least a couple of times the detectives visited when I wasn't home and left Macro business cards in my door. I can't remember if anyone actually told me this or if I just suspected it happened but I think they might have spoken to a neighbour about me because she stopped talking to me suddenly whereas before we'd gotten along great. The day I caught that burglar in my house and roughed him up a bit, I called the police who came and took him away and that same neighbour saw the paddy wagon and this bloke shouting and carrying on across the road and came over to talk about it and congratulated me on having caught him. She said she felt frightened at home alone with her kids while her hubby was working and that she was glad she had a neighbour like me because most of that street were all old folks. I can't remember but I think I swapped numbers and said if you ever hear any strange noises or get freaked out call my house and I'll come over and it was very neighbourly and nice then after Macro started showing up at my door and leaving homicide squad business cards in the flyscreen she suddenly wouldn't talk to me or even wave hello anymore. My guess is that she came over and tried to be helpful to the detectives one time I wasn't there and they talked to her and afterwards she was scared of me. I remember there was a bit of a stale mate because I wouldn't let them search my property and there was a gap in between when they asked me to take a voluntary polygraph and when it actually happened but I can't remember how long of a gap it was.

Interesting side note which I hope won't get me into trouble but I remember very clearly telling them I wouldn't consent to a search but I was happy to give them blood and hair samples because in my mind that would have cleared me from day one and I'd be on my way but the main detective said that wasn't going to be enough. In light of all the discussion about evidence left on the victims, vehicle searches and maternal DNA, why wouldn't a sample of my blood and hair have been enough to help them? I remember going to the central police station on Beaufort St from that job in town to do the DNA swab because it was my lunch break and I joked with the technician about whether they would get DNA or just evidence of what I had for lunch.

Anyway I hope that answers that one mate. I'm not offended in the least if you want to clarify more details. I know threads like this attract loons who want to involve themselves in the case somehow even if its just to make up a fake story and get attention so no worries at all if you want to call me out on specific stuff: I'll try to answer best I can. Like I said over on BF I don't have any special insight into the case or any secret insider knowledge I can share other than my own experiences but I'm drawn to this case because I lived right there in the middle of it when it was happening and I REALLY want to see WA police catch him. Some of the stuff I read on here about snuff movies and numerology and government cover ups and cryptic clues from people who know who he is...it baffles me.

Right now this thread is top notch as far as information and detective work goes so hats off to you guys and keep it up!
 
As I understand it, Romuald's death was originally classified by WA police as a suicide and the 1st Coroner's inquest also came to that conclusion. A subsequent inquest delivered an 'open finding'.

Romuald was last seen at Graylands Hospital as a patient, on 22 May 1997, and disappeared that afternoon. This date is 347 days from Jane Rimmer's abduction 9 June 1996.

A couple of things I have read recently have prompted me to look closely at the dates LW spent at Graylands.

There is another 'suicide' that occurred after Romuald at Graylands, with the 'victim' found in very similar circumstances. Both Romuald and this 'victim' were found outside the perimeter fenceline.

Attached are 2 photos; hard to believe these are the same guy !

When I first looked at these photos, I though the 1st attachment could show he was MM. 2nd photo is on his gravestone at Karrakatta cemetery. He is buried 2 rows back from Ciara Glennon.

Have you looked any closer at dates papertrail?

Do you have any information on the other victim that was found in very similar circumstances?

I have always found his death suspicious.
 
*Took martial arts classes at the scout hall behind the yacht club just down from Matilda Bay on Australia II Drive
*Checked out UWA judo club a couple of times

Hey Mordekai, do you happen to know Judoman (personally/acquaintance) or able to provide any insights about him?
 
The bloke who came across CG. He saw what dets did not want to see..
 
I am going to visit a Hills Doctor, who needs a House Visit....


Sutton I have found this quote on an old web page: http://blogs.watoday.com.au/yoursay/2008/08/claremont_killi.html?page=fullpage#comments

I haven't read DM's book. Does it specifically mention Yanchep in relation to the above like this user claims? Otherwise this user has got outside knowledge of what this patient said to her psych/is making stuff up.


Brentyboy
September 02, 2008
09:38 AM

There is the case of the girl that told her doctor Ciara was to be used as a sacrifice at the Autumnal Equinox. The information was that Ciara's murder would take place at The Spot in Yanchep. This girl was actually followed for a couple of days but nothing come of it.

It was only when they found Ciara's body, and she was only a few kilometers from Yanchep. The police found that Very Very Odd.....
 
Sutton I have found this quote on an old web page: http://blogs.watoday.com.au/yoursay/2008/08/claremont_killi.html?page=fullpage#comments

I haven't read DM's book. Does it specifically mention Yanchep in relation to the above like this user claims? Otherwise this user has got outside knowledge of what this patient said to her psych/is making stuff up.


Brentyboy
September 02, 2008
09:38 AM

There is the case of the girl that told her doctor Ciara was to be used as a sacrifice at the Autumnal Equinox. The information was that Ciara's murder would take place at The Spot in Yanchep. This girl was actually followed for a couple of days but nothing come of it.

It was only when they found Ciara's body, and she was only a few kilometers from Yanchep. The police found that Very Very Odd.....

Yep, that's in the book. Brentyboy didn't mention the source.

They are not all clairvoyants and soothsayers. Neil Fearis receives a visit from Perth GP Dr Andrew Dunn. He has information to pass on, he says, that has been given to him by a female patient whom he does not name. He has gone to the police with the information, he tells Fearis, but they have not taken him seriously. This patient has told him that Ciara is being held captive in a house where black magic rituals will take place to appease the gods at the autumnal equinox. Come the Easter long weekend, she will be offered up as a human sacrifice, like the sacrificial lamb. Fearis, too, passes the information to the Macro taskforce. 'We were all so desperate to get Ciara back,' he recalls. 'But they didn't take the information at all seriously, so unbeknown to Denis Glennon, whom we knew did not need this extra stress, we hired private detective Mick Buckley to keep watch on the house in the hills for three days.'

After leaving the police force, Buckley became a private investigator in 1983. 'I got a phone call around 6 pm on Easter Thursday,' he recalls, 'asking me to start surveillance surveillance on this female patient. The information was that Ciara Glennon's murder would take place at The Spot in Yanchep. I rotated with two private investigators, tailing the woman when she came out of her house.' Keeping around-the-clock surveillance, Buckley reports back. There is no sign of anything odd, he says. Nothing at all.

'Who knows why this information was passed on in the first place?' Fearis shrugs, weariness showing in his voice. 'Maybe the woman was simply a crackpot, maybe someone wanted to insert themselves into the investigation for their own reasons. Who knows?'

(Chapter 22, location 1212-1223)

And this:

Mick Buckley recalls the information passed on from Dr Dunn's patient, that Ciara's murder would take place at Yanchep. 'When they found Ciara's body, she was only a few kilometres from Yanchep. That was very, very odd.'
(Chapter 23 , location 1276 )

Then this:

One of the witnesses called in the Rory Christie trial, amongst a phalanx of people including Perth taxi drivers, that Susan Christie knew, was medical practitioner Dr Andrew Dunn. The name rings a bell and I rifle through papers to find my notes. He had started his testimony at Christie's trial by talking about his karate training at the University of Western Australia, later moving on to how he knew Susan Christie. Christie, Jenny Rimmer told me, had once had a drink at the local hotel, since razed, that she and Jane had favoured. I keep flicking through the pages. There it is. Sarah McMahon's family had bought Dr Dunn's house, and he had counselled Sarah's heartbroken father, Danny, after she went missing.
(Chapter 51, location 2876)

Marshall, Debi. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2007.
 
With reguards to the CCTV, from JR's sister:

A couple of days after she went missing the police had us watch a video of the Conti, (a
hotel in Claremont) of the people outside and inside. I could see Jane, going up the stairs,
down stairs, mingling with the crowd. The camera only went around every 3 minutes.
Then after the pub closed, or near closing, Jane was out the front and she looked like she
was looking for someone, she was looking at her watch - looking around - that lasted for a
few minutes and then the camera turned around and she wasn’t there, so she’s obviously
walked somewhere or been picked up by someone.


honouring-survival-is-there-a-rule-book.pdf pg 64
 
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