Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[Shadowboxer]

How do you arrive at above average intelligence, is it because they haven't been caught yet? The discovery of the bodies and the little effort put into concealing them could also indicate carelessness.

I have reason to believe that Macro consider him to be very smart and would be interested in his IQ.

 

[Bartholemeus]

This article has always baffled me. http://mobile.news.com.au/national/...rial-killer-case/story-e6frfkp9-1226056298037

I think the printing industry is a red herring, the significance is this specific business. Perhaps the new the technology was related to fibre analysis - but why ask a random shop about rope left behind 15 years later?

The phone box SS called the taxi from was on the NW corner of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd. On that corner is a little business complex with a walk through to a car park at the rear (Accessed from Chatsworth Tce). One of the businesses in this complex at the time was a printing business. Police approached them to see if any equipment went missing at the time or if there was an old clothesline out the back.

My assumption is they were following up a low percentage theory as to be thorough. I also assume that there was some evidence of the girls being strangled or tied up with a thin rope (i.e. that plastic coated wire they use on clothes lines) and wanted to check just in case the CSK procured his clothes line rope from the rear of the printers.

There also may have been printing ink evident at one or both of the scenes and given the printing business was next to where SS disappeared then they performed a routine check with the goal of leaving no stone unturned.

 

[perthite]

How do you arrive at above average intelligence, is it because they haven't been caught yet? The discovery of the bodies and the little effort put into concealing them could also indicate carelessness.

I think that he was intentionally careless after SS wasn't found. So he decided to change his method of disposal to get more attention. Which he did without Police being able to get any useful evidence from the sites or so we assume.

This crimes also seem well planned and executed. Think about how many opportunities he would have had but didn't take over a 2 year period. That strikes me as someone capable of making intelligent and well considered choices. I think it's fair to rule out someone of below average intelligence.

 

[Hermithead]

https://www.change.org/p/coroner-s-...-the-murders-of-jane-rimmer-and-ciara-glennon

Sorry I didnt explain what the link was for when I posted it last night light so here it is:

It has been almost 20 years since three women disappeared, two of which were murdered, from Claremont in Western Australia. Despite the significant resources that have been invested into the investigation of the so-called 'Claremont Killings', no-one has been arrested over these horrific crimes.

Apparently there have been 11 independent reviews of the activities of the Macro Task Force but as yet, a coronial inquest has not been undertaken. It's time that this was done.

Sign this petition to tell the Coroner's Court of Western Australia that the public demand an inquest into this case.

https://www.change.org/p/coroner-s-...-the-murders-of-jane-rimmer-and-ciara-glennon

 

[Hermithead]

I think it's interesting that JR and particularly CG were left to be found - generally a SK will become more proficient over time so it could be argued that this was intentional.

Myth: Serial killers want to get caught.

Offenders committing a crime for the first time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each new offense, eventually succeeding with few mistakes or problems.

While most serial killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose of their victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing of the body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.

As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues, the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. This often causes the killers to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It is not that serial killers want to get caught; they feel that they can’t get caught.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

 

[perthite]

Myth: Serial killers want to get caught.

I'm well aware of the FBI's standard spiel about SK's.

I'm not suggesting that the CSK did it to be caught - I'm suggesting he disposed of the bodies so that they would be discovered. Clearly he's capable of making a body disappear altogether.

 

[Hermithead]

The reason I focus on the disposal sites is they are the only confirmed crime scenes i.e. the perpetrator illegally disposed of a human body, which provides an unequivocal starting point to work back from.

"Offenders usually don't go far beyond an area they know as its easier to commit crimes in the course of their daily routine than by making a special journey to do so..." (Bartol, 2013). Therefore the probability of a crime being committed diminishes the greater the distance from the perps home. The further the perp travels from their own familiar surroundings to dispose of the body the higher the risks and likelihood of being caught becomes. Also, as the number of victims increases the closer to home the perp tends to leave the bodies as this reduces the risk associated with transportation.
The distance between both sites is ~80kms. It's a high risk decision and inconsistent with the 'close to home' premise. The distance traveled also indicates a degree of planning - longer distance, the more comprehensive the planning. Some themes that emerge from this are a high risk mentality, unconventional behavior and the ability to plan.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think that he was intentionally careless after SS wasn't found. So he decided to change his method of disposal to get more attention. Which he did without Police being able to get any useful evidence from the sites or so we assume.

I lean towards it being about time constraint and risk analysis.

If we assume the police are correct in same night dump then he had 3 hours from start to finish with SS. Then he changed how he discarded the bodies.

a. Was it because he felt whatever way he did it, there was too much risk? Did he pre dig a grave for SS and felt if someone discovered it between digging it and dumping the body, he'd be done? Did he end up finishing the concealment of SS in the early morning light? Did he have to drive too far with a DB in his boot and therefore increase chances of a random pull over by police?

b. Or was it because SS was his first and he realised he needed more time to do his ritual (that part between abduction and dump that we don't talk about). He did wait until mid winter for JR, skipped the summer, and waited until there were enough hours of darkness for CG. He also took the other 2 earlier in the night to also give him more time.

c. Or was it because, as you theorise, he wanted the bodies to be discovered (but not too quickly)?

d. Did he do some research and find out that a body decomposes 4 times faster in the open air?

e. A combo of the above


He did cover JR with branches which indicates he wanted to put off detection as long as possible. My gut feeling is he rationlised the best option was a quick disposal (not drive to far with db, not far from the road, no digging of graves, can dump same night with max time for ritual, decomp happens quicker) and reconned places where he could do this whilst at same time see any cars coming and where he thought the body would remain undetected for a reasonable amount of time.

Regarding SS:

3 hours. Very tight. Is it possible this was impromptu? I can't rule out JC but to me it suggests SS was his first.

 

[perthite]

The reason I focus on the disposal sites is they are the only confirmed crime scenes i.e. the perpetrator illegally disposed of a human body, which provides an unequivocal starting point to work back from.

"Offenders usually don't go far beyond an area they know as its easier to commit crimes in the course of their daily routine than by making a special journey to do so..." (Bartol, 2013). Therefore the probability of a crime being committed diminishes the greater the distance from the perps home. The further the perp travels from their own familiar surroundings to dispose of the body the higher the risks and likelihood of being caught becomes. Also, as the number of victims increases the closer to home the perp tends to leave the bodies as this reduces the risk associated with transportation.
The distance between both sites is ~80kms. It's a high risk decision and inconsistent with the 'close to home' premise. The distance traveled also indicates a degree of planning - longer distance, the more comprehensive the planning. Some themes that emerge from this are a high risk mentality, unconventional behavior and the ability to plan.

Seems a fair assessment - where do you place the CSK on the intelligence scale?

 

[Hermithead]

Seems a fair assessment - where do you place the CSK on the intelligence scale?

For this particular case I generally avoid putting my guesses, gut feels, theories, suggestions, assumptions etc out there and go with what the literature and the verified public domain evidence tells us and then take Occam's razor to it.

I'll have a go this time...

Anticipation denotes intelligence, to anticipate is to think ahead and plan. Therefore they're intelligent but I don't know what weighting an IQ test would give for this ability to then be able to scale their intelligence accordingly. There are signs of a high risk mentality, this alone is not a trait that would be associated with a person with above average intelligence (although that needs to be verified) but then if its coupled with in-depth local knowledge or a visionary mindset it could be an extremely advantageous trait, or again if combined with a highly addictive personality it could result in highly volatile behaviour.
There is also an inconsistency with this perp in comparison to how the research suggests they should be acting i.e. their pattern of behaviour. That can go either way as well - was the anomaly premediated or triggered? The simplest explanation being that an event occurred that nearly lead them to being caught which resulted in a change of plan (that possibly wasn't thought through) deviating from the expected behaviour pattern. Now the ability to adapt emerges.

On the face of it, from a geographic profiling perspective, they have the ability to plan, anticipate and adapt, yet are high risk takers and possibly careless (although the crime scene needs a separate assessment to determine this). Not below average intelligence, not a Dr Moriarty, somewhere around the average or pushing just above?

 

[Bartholemeus]

For me, SR doesn't fit my preferred profile. I'm big on a taxi, but the rest doesn't really fit (profile wise).

SR Fit
Taxi - check
Taser - check
Said SS was in his cab the previous night - check
Told an obvious lie about the supposed taxi trip with SS the previous night

SR Non-fit
Let's face it, Stevo is dumb as dogshyt - check
He's not local - check
Claremont to Embleton to Wellard. That's a lot of driving if we assume he took the girls to his pad

I'm struggling with the concept that our Stevo chose Claremont 3 times out of 3. Why not Northbridge or somewhere else? Or is it that Stevo resented that he would never be able to get one of these well-healed girls?

Group Theory

Not buying it at all. Maybe a duo, but any more than that, no way. I don't believe a group would target Claremont 3 times in a row. There's 1 decision maker here and at most he may have a submissive sidekick.



So let's hypothetically assume Stevo isn't the CSK. Then who is it?

 

[Hermithead]

Agree HH - why would he do this unless he was either guilty and deflecting responsibility, associated in some way or correct in his allegations (but completely blameless)?

From his own admission he had a vendetta against the police - an ex criminal who they didn't take seriously.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

There's quite a bit of information out there on the www that 'profiles' Serial Killers. Obviously there's no one set criteria and nor should we be focusing on exactly a 'type' as there's always exception to the rule and that alone can count POI out.

However, everything I've read seems to point toward a set of common traits such as; volatile inter personal relationships, childhood trauma, history of animal cruelty, either high or low iq but not really 'average', personality disorders such as auditory processing disorder, multiple personality disorder or borderline personality disorder, usually has had an absent father figure, sexually deviant behaviour, inconsistent employment history, substance abuse such as marijuana or alcohol and usually has a minor convictions with LE. However they don't usually suffer from Mental Illness and appear as rather charismatic and charming potentially with a penchant for police type work. (hiding in plain sight) Personality disorders are usually well hidden behind a facade of normality and those who suffer from them, usually do so in silence or at the expense of those they are closest to. Extreme stress or trauma triggers antisocial behaviours not usually seen in public and are truly a source of shame for the sufferer. The killer will be able to dissociate or detach from the illegality of the murders they commit. The compulsion to kill will be stronger than the moral obligation not to kill. They will be calculated and focused, obsessive and meticulous.

If you break it down to the gender of killer then almost 1/3 of female victims are known to their male killer. Given the tight knit community of Perth and the western suburbs, it's no stretch to think there would be a common link between all 3 girls. Female killers are about 50% known victims and 50% strangers. Given that approximately 17% of serial homicides (in the US) are perpetrated by a woman, again, it's no reason to rule out a woman as the killer or at least part of a team.

Comfort zone and anchor point seem quite obvious here, but given that Perth was still relatively small in the 90's, the comfort zone and/or anchor point could be farther than a few western suburbs, and potentially be that they know Perth incredibly well. I do however imagine from my own reckoning that Claremont was either a place of residence, work or school/childhood home.

Thoughts?

 

[perthite]

I suppose given how small Claremont is it's quite possible that the CSK doesn't need to live in the immediate area or surrounds.

He could work in Claremont or have just frequented the area a lot for the pub scene. In my first few legal drinking years I would travel to Leederville each week and I was probably as comfortable there as I was in the suburb I grew up and lived at the time (some distance away). Similarly I worked a job in one particular city for 3-4 years and could probably walk it blindfolded.

The geographical profiling would suggest that he's likely to live in one of the adjacent suburbs though but in a small city like Perth, I don't think this is crucial.

 

[perthite]

I'm struggling with the concept that our Stevo chose Claremont 3 times out of 3. Why not Northbridge or somewhere else? Or is it that Stevo resented that he would never be able to get one of these well-healed girls?

This is where I lose faith in the Taxi theory a little. Why wouldn't you just go to Freo or Northbridge where there are probably greater opportunities - far more people, more backstreets, more drunk girls walking home or looking for taxis etc.

If it was a taxi driver, assuming he didn't pass away or leave the country, why weren't there more victims? A taxi driver in this city is likely to have intimate knowledge and therefore be comfortable in Leederville, Fremantle, Perth CBD and Northbridge.

Maybe it is all about the rich girls in Claremont. Perhaps the CSK has wealthy parents and mummy issues. Perhaps he knows martial arts

 

[ExcaliburX]

However, everything I've read seems to point toward a set of common traits such as; volatile inter personal relationships, childhood trauma, history of animal cruelty, either high or low iq but not really 'average', personality disorders such as auditory processing disorder, multiple personality disorder or borderline personality disorder, usually has had an absent father figure, sexually deviant behaviour, inconsistent employment history, substance abuse such as marijuana or alcohol and usually has a minor convictions with LE. However they don't usually suffer from Mental Illness and appear as rather charismatic and charming potentially with a penchant for police type work. (hiding in plain sight) Personality disorders are usually well hidden behind a facade of normality and those who suffer from them, usually do so in silence or at the expense of those they are closest to. Extreme stress or trauma triggers antisocial behaviours not usually seen in public and are truly a source of shame for the sufferer. The killer will be able to dissociate or detach from the illegality of the murders they commit. The compulsion to kill will be stronger than the moral obligation not to kill. They will be calculated and focused, obsessive and meticulous.

Spot on.

Don't know that much about the martial arts expert except that gleaned from the web (well educated and IQ, but nothing else on that list) but the above characteristics seem to fit two of those mentioned on here.

Absent parental figure(s) - emotionally or physically. Criminal histories. Childhood trauma. Disability / cultural background leading to perceived persecution from early age. Dysfunctional relationships with siblings, ex-partners and children. Substance abuse. Inconsistent employment history or one that doesn't live up to intelligence. Detachment and disassociation - always someone else's fault. Manipulative enough to gain trust. Lack of empathy and normal behaviour / values. Obsessive. Sexual deviance. Confused sexuality. Attention seeking. Failure.

Potential triggers - loss of substitute parental figure for a period of time after a long period of stability and support. Others could be the death of birth parent and breakdown of relationship.

What could explain why the CSK series ceased? Breakdown of perp relationship and mutual fear of disclosure, relocation either physically or of activities, overt and covert LE surveillance, incarceration or supervised treatment, apparent elimination from investigation, new familial relationships and perhaps a child, return of support network after a protracted absence. Dare I say it, protected by powerful anti-establishment forces.

PS: thanks "tonetonix" for the compassion video like on YouTube yesterday - absent parents leading to abnormal behaviour and zero empathy. Excuses. Seems you follow CSK discussions closely. You liked Donovan's Hurdy Gurdy Man track last week from the Zodiac soundtrack. Enjoy whilst it lasts.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I suppose given how small Claremont is it's quite possible that the CSK doesn't need to live in the immediate area or surrounds.

He could work in Claremont or have just frequented the area a lot for the pub scene. In my first few legal drinking years I would travel to Leederville each week and I was probably as comfortable there as I was in the suburb I grew up and lived at the time (some distance away). Similarly I worked a job in one particular city for 3-4 years and could probably walk it blindfolded.

The geographical profiling would suggest that he's likely to live in one of the adjacent suburbs though but in a small city like Perth, I don't think this is crucial.

Whilst not crucial, I think it's likely. The CSK has some mental or physical link with Claremont.

- It may be physical in that his house where he takes the girls to is near by
- It may be mental in that he resents these well-heeled women because he is local and feels he is constantly spurned. Keep in mind that back then Claremont was very exclusive and very few outsiders travelled there for a night out. It was very much the domain of the local private school old boys and old girls. And it definitely wasn't a UWA hang out back then
- It may be that he is not local but was one of those private school kids who lived out of area
- It may have been someone from out of area who resented well-heeled women. But why only Claremont? There's other exclusive areas close by with the same type of women. If this is the case, there has to be some mental link the CSK has to Claremont.

It doesn't have to be a local but Occam's Razor points to it being the most likely.

 

[Bartholemeus]

This is where I lose faith in the Taxi theory a little. Why wouldn't you just go to Freo or Northbridge where there are probably greater opportunities - far more people, more backstreets, more drunk girls walking home or looking for taxis etc.

If it was a taxi driver, assuming he didn't pass away or leave the country, why weren't there more victims? A taxi driver in this city is likely to have intimate knowledge and therefore be comfortable in Leederville, Fremantle, Perth CBD and Northbridge.

Maybe it is all about the rich girls in Claremont. Perhaps the CSK has wealthy parents and mummy issues. Perhaps he knows martial arts

This is the quandary of this case. So many conflicts such as "3 guys saw CG talking to someone in a car but didn't recall it being a taxi". Taxi is by far the obvious reason why the girls got in the car, but if that car never came forward then it's likely that was the CSK, and as far as we know it wasn't a taxi.

If we use SR as an example (because he's the poster boy for taxi driver POI's) then he would have to have a link to Claremont. Maybe it's as simple as Claremont was his taxi driving patch so he kept the same familiar patch for killing?

Do we know if Stevo's go-to patch was Claremont? Do WAPOL know the identities of all taxi drivers at the time whose patch was Claremont?

My issue with Judoman is that although he ticks all my profile boxes, he doesn't have a taxi. Is it possible he had a fake taxi? Two completely different suspects who have half the jigsaw puzzle each. I'm aso struggling to see the CSK being outside the core suspects because I think the reason he stopped was due to police scrutiny.

 

[Jezz]

The guy who told me that SR bragged to him also said he said he hated 'rich *****es' and that they deserved what they got. He also added that they were only after drugs but that would surely be a delusion.

I also agree that he appears to be not the brightest spark, which is another reason I think he didn't act alone. I think he was more the 'doer' who wasn't scared of getting his hands dirty and was being commanded by someone else. This would also support my theory that they were subdued and then taken to another place for the rituals and murder.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Things I would like to know;

1. Which taxi drivers had Claremont as their go-to patch at the time of the murders?
2. Did SS in fact get in SR's cab the night before she went missing? We know there is no evidence of the alleged

Dalkeith woman or the guy who went to South Perth with SS, but has in been confirmed either way that SS was in

SR's cab the previous night?
3. Do they have DNA from the Karakatta abduction and rape? Or a description? Or what type of car?
4. If someone were to make a magnetic taxi sign for their car doors and the taxi thing on the roof, where would they get it made?