Classic Cold Murder Case of Most Interest Poll

[Tulessa]

Meet the man who most likely killed the Scheussler/Peterson boys.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/2007/06/suspect_in_sex_.html

Retired Chicago Detective James A. Jack wrote a book about the case titled: "Three Boys Missing." Elmer H. Johnson and Carol Holmes Johnson have also written a book on the case: "Shattered Sense of Innocence." Gene O'Shea, meanwhile, has written "Unbridled Rage" on the case.

Important warning: I have not read any of these books and list them merely for informational purposes. Given my experiences on the Black Dahlia case, I am highly suspicious of anything purporting to be a "true" crime book. Such works are often highly fictionalized, full of mistakes and usually not worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[Tulessa]

Has anyone ever seen the full documentry called......... Villisca - Living with a Mystery .............. there are alot out there however there is only one real one most are related to it being haunted or some crap ..Still don't know how you chop off 8 heads with no one waking.in the time of no electricity.no lights so its candles all out its dark ..have you ever seen the picture of the guy that they took in the night prior..he was a stranger photographed with too kids ,,unbelievabley eerie....

To be honest, you would be surprised at the cases I have investigated, as a Paranormal investigator. I was a family member of TAPS, (Ghost Hunters on sci-fi), and you would freak at the valuable information I ( we as a team) collected.

Timed out. Trying this again and pray that it's not a double post.

 

[Gunther Toody]

Retired Chicago Detective James A. Jack wrote a book about the case titled: "Three Boys Missing." Elmer H. Johnson and Carol Holmes Johnson have also written a book on the case: "Shattered Sense of Innocence." Gene O'Shea, meanwhile, has written "Unbridled Rage" on the case.

Important warning: I have not read any of these books and list them merely for informational purposes. Given my experiences on the Black Dahlia case, I am highly suspicious of anything purporting to be a "true" crime book. Such works are often highly fictionalized, full of mistakes and usually not worth the paper they are printed on.

James Jack was one of the lead investigators on the Peterson Schuessler case. He is on youtube giving talks about the case. What is good about his book is that it gives you insight on the ineptitude of Chicago police investigative techniques of that era. He also details the Ken Hansen trial pretty thoroughly. Sadly, he like most people is on the "Ken Hansen did it" bandwagon. I believe Jack died in 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1QQXAgAfcU

Shattered Sense of Innocence was actually written by Richard Lindberg, a personal acquaintance of mine. He researched his book for over five years. It is probably the most unbiased of the three you mentioned. Lindberg is the only writer who offers alternative theories on who killed the boys. And he backs it up with evidence.

Unbridled Rage, written by Gene O'Shea takes most of its storyline from the investigators perspective. Not necessarily a bad thing but clearly biased. In fact I believe that ATF Investigator Rotunno collaborated with O'Shea on the book.

I have all three in my collection. Each serves its purpose.

 

[Dragonfyree]

I've never found the Ramsey case that interesting. I've always thought it was someone in the house, not the parents.

I don't think they planned to kill her and the parents covered it up.

If it was a stranger or someone they knew,

Why wasn't she removed from the house?

Why was she taken to a hard to find room? Even if you're a guest in someone's house, how often do you go to the basement and back to a hidden type room? And if you're a stranger why would you think there was that room down there, are you just running around the house trying to find a hiding place??

How did they know the bonus amount? People don't usually tell other people anything about their pay. It wasn't even a general amount but the exact amount.

Why wasn't the entire house searched? They knew about the room, didn't they ever think she might be hurt some where? If my child was missing I'd tear my house apart, looking in every cabinet, closet, attic, basement, garage and anywhere else someone as small as her could be hidden.

My hearts breaks for the Ramsey's because I think they knew what happened, and felt there was nothing else they could do.

 

[wendybtn]

I voted for Lizzie Borden as that case has fascinated me since I was a child. But the Tylenol poisonings and the Zodiac killer are right behind Lizzie and her axe, in my opinion.

 

[STANDREID]

I voted for Lizzie Borden as that case has fascinated me since I was a child. But the Tylenol poisonings and the Zodiac killer are right behind Lizzie and her axe, in my opinion.

I think those are half of the 6 that even people not interested in crime would have heard of.

 

[Dragonfyree]

I think those are half of the 6 that even people not interested in crime would have heard of.

I agree and would add Jack The Ripper, Boston Strangler and Richard Speck. I think Charles Whitman would be on it but I don't think a lot of people not interested in crime know his name, just his crime.

Do you watch A Crime To Remember - on Discovery - they did one on Charles Schmid - the Pied Piper of Tucson, who I think was one of the earlier Cult Leader type of killers - before Manson, where he got his group to help him kill. I remember reading a story about him in the late 60's in I think Life Magazine or Saturday Evening Post - it was one of those large over-sized magazines. He's an interesting killer, but I don't think they've ever done a really good book on him (I know there is what I think was a self-published over-sized, very thin paperback) and he's rarely in any anthology book of true crime.

 

[STANDREID]

I don't have cable but I did note that Schmid's first murder recently passed the 50 year mark.

 

[azure]

Elfrieda Knaak is the case I would most like to solve. I picked Taman Shud on your poll, though. I guess I like an element of mystery to my cold cases.

 

[STANDREID]

With 10s of thousands (and probably a lot more that that) unsolved cases in world history, odd that only several dozen really generate interest.

 

[Dragonfyree]

I'm also always surprised at what murders seem to generate interest. I would think that murders where there are large deaths within a family would be more interesting because they really would hit close to home. Can you trust that slightly weird person that everyone has in their family.

But you don't really hear a lot about people like.

James Ruppert who murdered 11 members of his family in Ohio at Easter in 1975.

Gene Simmons who murdered 13 members of his family and a couple of other people at Christmas in 1987 - Arkansas - he was later executed.

 

[STANDREID]

There are several family massacres that are unsolved like Villisca

 

[Mzkity62]

Sharon Marshall........This poor girl lived a lifetime of shame and not knowing who she actually was. She deserves a name.

 

[chlban]

I'm also always surprised at what murders seem to generate interest. I would think that murders where there are large deaths within a family would be more interesting because they really would hit close to home. Can you trust that slightly weird person that everyone has in their family.

But you don't really hear a lot about people like.

James Ruppert who murdered 11 members of his family in Ohio at Easter in 1975.

Gene Simmons who murdered 13 members of his family and a couple of other people at Christmas in 1987 - Arkansas - he was later executed.

Ah, but no real mystery to these. Other than motivations perhaps, but the "who" is known and accepted. It's the mysteries that endure. Jack, Tylenol, Zodiac, Lizzie, Dahlia, no one knows who. There may be plenty of suspects, but no one really knows.

Then you have the "yeah, but" group. Sam Sheppard and Albert DeSalvo are probably the best known of this crowd. You have convictions, or in Sams' case a conviction, an acquittal and then what amounted to another conviction in a civil trial, but the results are still widely disputed. Personally, I believe they were both guilty, but until the most recent DNA evidence I was completely convinced that DeSalvo was not the (or, one of, since I still believe there were at least two) the Stranglers.

It's the mystery that hooks us, IMO.

Also, I think sometimes it is that combined with some memory. As a Kid in So. CA. the two cases that really scared me were the Manson Killings and Zodiac. As an adult the Second Night Stalker scared the heck out of me.

But the Manson group and Ramirez were caught and convicted so it is the Zodiac that has stayed with me and fascinated me all these years. I will never forget the artists rendering of him after the Lake Berryessa killings, with that Hood. Freaked me out.

It's the mystery that gets us, IMO.

 

[chlban]

I would love to have a good book written about the Grimes case and Judith Anderson.

There have been a couple on the Peterson/Scheussler case.

I would also like to see something done on one of the true crime programs - possibly the new Crime To Remember Show, as I've never seen anything done about any of these cases.

I would include Margaret Gallagher who was murdered on a beach while a witness watched through a spy glass. Barry Cook was tried for the crime and found not guilty, and he was also suspected of having killed Judith Mae Anderson, but I think because of the suspicious way her friend's family acted that she may have never left that house.

I just wanted to add that I love that series, A Crime to Remember. I wonder though if the reason it hasn't touched on the Grimes case, which I would have kind of expected by now, is that there is no solution. If I am remembering correctly, in the cases they have covered there has usually been a conviction or, in a case like Charles Whitman, a solution at least. Although the solution is often still somewhat disputed. I seem to recall thinking that their viewpoint was that, in spite of her convction, Alice Crimmons was innocent.

However in the Grimes case, it may just be "too unsolved". Maybe next season they could start looking at some of the unsolved cases, like that.

 

[Dragonfyree]

Ah, but no real mystery to these. Other than motivations perhaps, but the "who" is known and accepted. It's the mysteries that endure. Jack, Tylenol, Zodiac, Lizzie, Dahlia, no one knows who. There may be plenty of suspects, but no one really knows.

I would agree about there being no mystery of who the killer is, but on these where entire families are killed by another family member, the motivation would be more interesting than some unsolved murders.

I think the Tylenol murders may be the result of someone close to one of the victims, similar to Stella Nichols in Washington who put cyanide in Excedrin to kill her husband and to get money out of Excedrin.

I don't find Lizzie Borden interesting, either - it seems obvious that she is the killer but the courts at that time are actually similar to today, where they don't want to believe a woman can be capable of that type of crime.

Examples From Today - Carla Homolka - from Canada who got a light sentence because she was obviously a victim of her husband Paul Bernardo, until the video tapes came out and showed she was as involved as he was. The fact that she let him rape her sister and didn't say anything when the girl died is almost worse. She's out of jail.

Carol Bundy - who helped Doug Clark - The Sunset Killer - he got death, she plea bargained for life - even though she personally killed her former boyfriend by herself.

Charlene Gallego - who helped Gerald Gallego kill 10 people. She got a short sentence and has been released from prison.

My own state of Nebraska - Caril Fugate and Charles Starkweather - she served 17 years - he was executed. Not that I think she should have been executed - she was only 14.

In all cases, except Starkweather, the men never killed until they had hooked up with the woman. Would they have started on their own, we'll never know, but when they're caught it's always the poor woman is victim to this evil man.

Which is why the news media was so quick to label Aileen Wurnos as the worlds first female serial killer, when I could think of numerous one's - including Judias Buenano's who was also from Florida and was on death row before her, and had killed a husband, son and boyfriend, possibly more and was executed before her.

I know this is a little off topic of Classic Cold Cases.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I agree Dragonfryee, the women in these cases are as culpable as the men. A few months ago, I watched the documentary, 'Goodnight, Sugar Babe: The Killing of Vera Jo Reigle' The matriarch of that family is a monster, yet she got away with her disgusting crimes and incitement because she is a woman, and now, confined to a wheelchair. She still wields so much power, even in that wheelchair. She was a product of an abusive family/childhood, but in my book, that is no excuse. JMO

 

[Dragonfyree]

She was a product of an abusive family/childhood, but in my book, that is no excuse. JMO

They always seems to go to the abusive childhood, the abusive husband, the abusive boyfriend, where if you look at the men, they were often horribly abused as children, but don't seem to get that same sympathy factor.

 

[STANDREID]

Yes since we are human beings, we are responsible for the actions we take no matter what our background.

 

[Dragonfyree]

I agree Dragonfryee, the women in these cases are as culpable as the men. A few months ago, I watched the documentary, 'Goodnight, Sugar Babe: The Killing of Vera Jo Reigle' The matriarch of that family is a monster, yet she got away with her disgusting crimes and incitement because she is a woman, and now, confined to a wheelchair. She still wields so much power, even in that wheelchair. She was a product of an abusive family/childhood, but in my book, that is no excuse. JMO

I agree. How often do you hear about a woman who has killed her children. MaryBeth Tinning comes to mind, she killed about 7 of her babies.

Or the women who do nothing while her boyfriend kills her children - Jillian Tait.

Or kills them because her new boyfriend doesn't want kids - Susan Smith and Diane Downs are examples.

Or kills them to get back at her husband - Susan Eubanks

For the insurance - Frances Newton, Robin Lee Row

And the ones who were just out of their minds - Andrea Yates.

And it's not a recent phenomena - we have Belle Guiness,

It always seems as soon as a woman is arrested, the "Why did she do it - it must have been something in her past". It hardly ever goes to she's just an evil person.