CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #40

[azgrandma]

lol. Few of you are getting my point. Dr. Phil did not do a good job in handling his own emotions regardless of his evolving inclinations. This is not conducive to manipulating someone, especially an alleged narcissist/sociopath, into confessing or taking a lie detector test. Put a narcissist's or a sociopath's back against the wall, and he will not cooperate as he will feel he is under attack and/or it becomes a game to him. Empathize with him - even falsely - and more favorable results will likely occur.

Again, this is not a defense for MR. Most certainly MR is responsible for his own decisions and actions. No doubt about it and I've said I don't like how he handled it. However, those decisions and actions could've been influenced differently with a more competent forensic interviewer.

Thanks for the clarification, I do believe that I am getting your point. IMO the point may have evolved. If I am understanding correctly, it has changed from everything from Baiting MR to not controlling his own emotions and being unprofessional. Yet I also get the impression that you feel as if DP should have manipulated MR into taking the poly. (BBM) I can't speak for anyone else, but that is where my confusion comes in.

In your opinion, and to clear my confusion - was MR baited to take the poly? Should he have been manipulated into taking the poly? or, isn't asking an adult a yes or no question - will you take a polygraph? with no baiting or manipulating sufficient? Thank you

 

[NC Analyzer]

I understand your point, but even a professional can lose their cool sometimes. Mark was given 3 chances to take it, after he had agreed during the taping the 1st day. He refused all 3 times. Don't you think you would be getting a little frustrated by then, too?
Besides, Dr. Phil's 'bullying' technique was for heightening the drama... he was not there to counsel Mark or hold his hand and soothe him. His goal was to make the show more dramatic for ratings.
Mark knew he would be asked to take a poly. He could have just refused from the get-go, he didn't have to lead the guy in circles. Or better yet, he should have stayed home and never went on the show to start with.

BBM: Sometimes a thank you isn't enough! :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Tonto]

*sigh* It still has nothing to do with the fact that he was trained as a forensic psychologist! He hasn't lost his mind or his memory! I was a bartender once upon a time. I'm not a bartender now, but I can sure whip up a drink...and with this whole semantics argument, I think I need one!
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Not a good analogy for many reasons, but the main one being the DSM was magazine thick when he was at the height of his practice, and the field itself was in its infancy compared to modern techniques and understanding. Hell, homosexuality was a disorder for a significant portion of that time. The practice and profession has evolved monumentally since the 70s and 80s. Your analogy would be the same as saying that a former doctor who practiced bloodletting deserves the same reverence today just because he was a doctor at one time. I don't think you intend to be that obtuse, considering I'm sure you deal with a great deal of psychologists within your field. Ask a few of them their opinions on Dr. Phil's competence, abilities, and modalities and report back.

 

[Confusion]

I've worked in a pharmacy for 7 years now and the idea of a medication that makes MR behave the way he did on the show is just that, an idea. Sure he could be on an antidepressant or tranquilizer but those only reduce the anxiety and sadness. They don't prevent someone from being upset/sad about their missing son.

If MR was on a drug like Seroquel or Xypreza it could be different. But his actions do not show me a schizophrenic or someone with similar traits. MR just seems like a regular smug person who is self centered.

Excuse my typos as its from my phone

Are you a pharmacist? My experiences have been quite different. As one person told me after starting a new antidepressant, "I feel like a zombie. If my house were to burn down today with all 4 of my kids in it, I'd probably stand here and laugh." Needless to say, she wasn't on them for long. In addition to that, Seroquel and Zyprexa aren't only for people with Schizophrenia or similar symptoms. They're anti-psychotics, which can be used for those things, but can also be used for depression and other disorders which are severe enough to cause psychosis. MOO
___________________
Does anybody know offhand if the mysterious stranger actually asked where there was a gas station, or if he may have just asked where he could get some gas? I've been wondering if he may have known where the station was, but was hoping to get a gallon from someone close by so he didn't have to walk that far. I really wish there was more information about the guy - like did he have an accent or was it his skin tone that made the tipster say he was Hispanic? Did he look like he had been walking very far? How was he dressed (blue collar, white color, tourist, lumberjack, other type)? If any of these questions were already answered, I'd appreciate a reminder. I don't remember them saying much about him. TIA

 

[Tonto]

If you were out camping with friends and you became rapidly disoriented, trouble breathing, eyes watering, talking gibberish and falling over, would you rather have the advice of a unlicensed but previously practicing doctor or the opinion of a plumber?

Depends on which one has the bottle of single malt.

 

[NC Analyzer]

Not a good analogy for many reasons, but the main one being the DSM was magazine thick when he was at the height of his practice, and the field itself was in its infancy compared to modern techniques and understanding. Hell, homosexuality was a disorder for a significant portion of that time. The practice and profession has evolved monumentally since the 70s and 80s. Your analogy would be the same as saying that a former doctor who practiced bloodletting deserves the same reverence today just because he was a doctor at one time. I don't think you intend to be that obtuse, considering I'm sure you deal with a great deal of psychologists within your field. Ask a few of them their opinions on Dr. Phil's competence, abilities, and modalities and report back.

Dr. Phil wasn't practicing in the stone age. The basics are still the basics. This is becoming more and more about DP and less and less about MR.

This is about MR. His choices. His failure to do anything to clear his name. I don't care if it was Dr. Phil or a private poly examiner. He won't do it.

Perhaps you don't see the psychological veil MR has shrouded around himself, but even a lay person senses there is plenty wrong with the man.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Interesting how some folks were quick to throw out the "psychologist" and "expert" label for Dr. Phil before the show aired, yet now it's "just a show". The folks who expected something different but are now rationalizing those expectations away are the deluded ones. IMO.

The quote you have here was taken out of context. The entire quote makes a big difference in the meaning.

The entire quote from NC Analyzer was

I cannot fault the Dr. Phil show in any way, shape or form, for how and what was presented about MR.
I know there aren't very many folks who have participated in a forensic interview/evaluation, but I've had the experience (from a 2-way window, video recorded) on more occasions than I care to remember. One thing I can assure you, they don't happen over the course of an hour. The initial interview often lasts 2-3 hours, followed by several additional interviews lasting a similar length of time.
Anyone who expects, or expected more from a television show is deluding themselves. JMO

BBM: When a TV show has been cut into an hour, things end up on the cutting room floor.

I don't mind when people disagree, but at least note that the quote is snipped, or quote the whole thing.

 

[SCHMAE]

Depends on which one has the bottle of single malt.

Liquor is quicker... ask MR !

 

[Confusion]

Dr. Phil wasn't practicing in the stone age. The basics are still the basics. This is becoming more and more about DP and less and less about MR.

This is about MR. His choices. His failure to do anything to clear his name. I don't care if it was Dr. Phil or a private poly examiner. He won't do it.

Perhaps you don't see the psychological veil MR has shrouded around himself, but even a lay person senses there is plenty wrong with the man.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

BBM

I thought this was supposed to be about Dylan. :waitasec: MOO

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

I thought this was supposed to be about Dylan. :waitasec: MOO

That is what DP thought too, which is why he had to remind MR about Dylan.

 

[LaLilith]

BBM

I thought this was supposed to be about Dylan. :waitasec: MOO

I think she means this particular line of conversation is about MR. IMO, the way I'm reading the convo.

 

[azgrandma]

No he isn't. He is unlicensed and has been for nearly 20 years. The decision to revoke his license wasn't his. The decision to not comply with the board's recommendations in order to reinstate his license however, was his alone. That's not retirement - that's non-compliance due to the same poor ethics that got him into hot water in the first place.He was a psychologist many years ago. Perhaps he is even somewhat retired now. But he is most certainly not a retired psychologist.

BBM - I believe that the same could be said about MR's refusal to take a poly.

 

[Tonto]

Dr. Phil wasn't practicing in the stone age.

He was in the context of what the field has become and the knowledge base it now provides. The 'basics' change every time there is a paradigm shift or there are refutations of prior research. Being out of the psychology game for 20 years is similar to being out of the MD game for 100. But you're right, this is becoming more about Dr. Phil than Dylan so we should stop. Let's move on.

 

[NC Analyzer]

BBM

I thought this was supposed to be about Dylan. :waitasec: MOO

The poster I was replying to was discussing the merits of the Dr. Phil show and how those events transpired. I was responding to that only, but thanks for the reminder.

 

[Tonto]

BBM - I believe that the same could be said about MR's refusal to take a poly.

You're correct. It very well could be interpreted that way.

 

[TxLady2]

Only when one attempts to discredit one thing vs the other. Dr. Phil is a retired psychologist. He is currently employed as a tv host. He utilizes his training and skills to the best of his ability on a tv show. Which says nothing about how he would utilize his training and skills if he was working in the field of forensic psychology. Apples to Oranges and I do believe most folks can recognize the difference.

To give a comparison. We often see former US Presidents interviewed on national news tv. They are still in a position to be able to speak about Presidential issues, but they are no longer the President of the US. They are also RESPECTED for their former position....not that Dr. Phil is a former president, but most Doctor's retain their title long after they have retired. And I would presume they would still have the skill to preform as a physician. It is merely respect. But that's just me and I put this argument to bed a long time ago as a common sense issue.

True. I used to be a hairdresser, many moons ago. I gave up my license so I do not work as one now, but I have not forgotten the things I learned in training and through experience in the 10 years or so that I did work. People still consult me about different things regarding hair, hair products, etc. I still occasionally get asked to do favors like styling and/or cutting someone's hair. Sometimes I give free advice about what hair color would work best on someone.
Just because someone retires from a profession does not mean they forget everything they know.

 

[azgrandma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Analyzer
Dr. Phil wasn't practicing in the stone age. The basics are still the basics. This is becoming more and more about DP and less and less about MR.

This is about MR. His choices. His failure to do anything to clear his name. I don't care if it was Dr. Phil or a private poly examiner. He won't do it.

Perhaps you don't see the psychological veil MR has shrouded around himself, but even a lay person senses there is plenty wrong with the man.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

BBM

I thought this was supposed to be about Dylan. :waitasec: MOO

I had to put both quotes for proper response. This is about Dylan, but in order to allow people to move past MR, it has to be about the last KNOWN person to have been with Dylan. Once MR is eliminated then it is no longer about him. As long as he does not clear his name, MR is making it about MR.

 

[Abstar80]

Irish Eyes: Here is the link to the transcript of the uncut MB interview with EH. The issue I am referring to is located on page 10 in the first paragraph. Have a read of it. I would be interested to get your perspective on it.

http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29615&d=1360114263
__________________

 

[NC Analyzer]

He was in the context of what the field has become and the knowledge base it now provides. The 'basics' change every time there is a paradigm shift or there are refutations of prior research. Being out of the psychology game for 20 years is similar to being out of the MD game for 100. But you're right, this is becoming more about Dr. Phil than Dylan so we should stop. Let's move on.

I disagree with your analogy. I have to participate in ongoing training and continuing education as a requirement. Not much has changed. So, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[margarita25]

Hi everyone. Finally finished watching part 2. I'm behind again and look forward to reading everyone's posts. A few words before I head out to work:

Thank you Dr. Phil and staff for bringing attention to Dylan's case! I could tell that Dr. Phil had a heavy heart at the end of the show, that he felt powerless and frustrated that he can not prove anything at this point. I have a lot of respect for Dr. Phil and gratitude after this show.

I am afraid that all this pressure on MR is going to cause him to drink himself to death, or something else like that, that he might take the answers to his grave.

The first segment on DP was excruciating to watch. Way worse than I imagined. Like Eileen, I had a paper bag (practically). I could barely get through it...I had to keep pausing it and going for a drink refill. At times I really thought I was going to puke or faint. I got a sick sick feeling deep in my gut about what really happened to Dylan. If there ever was a fence in my yard, its been knocked down. I've tried to remain objective and fair throughout this ordeal, jumping back and forth. As azgrandma (hugs) initially stated, MR's character and actions will speak for itself on the show, which IMO they most certainly did. Here we see his interactions and responses to questions being asked in context. Very telling.