CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

[rosesfromangels]

Does anyone have any info about any under water "gates" or barriers around or near the dam mechanisms? I'm not going to get graphic out of respect for the situation, but there should be some indication in a change in water flow pattern if there are obstructions?

 

[The Cheese]

Dear Cheese,

Thank you for these links.

I have found the following, among other sources:


BBM

http://www.eatstayplay.com/html/co/a2198p306c2053.html

which notes that:

Vallecito Reservoir is a scenic, high mountain reservoir built in 1941 and has 2,700 surface acres of water and 22.0 miles of shoreline. The mountain lake is approximately 167 feet deep at the dam and is at an elevation of 7,665 feet. It is a cold water lake with fishing and boating being the main activities.

As well as this:

http://4cornershikesdol.blogspot.com/2011/08/vallecito-lake-walk-path.html

which says:

There is a small parking area with a restroom and the Walk Path is clearly marked. The top of the dam elevation is about 7673 feet. The normal depth of water is 121.5 feet.


(BTW, for anyone interested, the second link has some good lake photos.)


Hopefully, these explain my interest in your sources. I'll check back for the other links tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Do you have a link saying that the specific area near the dam where LE searched is more than 40 feet? Or just the general information above?

What other links are you looking for from me tomorrow? I responded to your request for a link to the 40 feet. I gave you four links to the 40 feet. You even quoted three of them that I posted for you.

 

[RANCH]

Considering the abuse this poor mother has been subjected to? Elaine, Mike and Cory have made it perfectly clear they want the public to respect their privacy. The search isn't intended to be a spectator sport and they simply don't want to share that information. I completely understand their perspective and I don't blame them one bit. It doesn't appear they are getting much assistance from LE, so why would they bother letting anyone know their plans or who will be conducting the search?

I'm not suggesting that Elaine's or anyone's privacy be violated. I don't see how making people aware of a search for a missing child is turning it into a spectator sport.

The last I heard they were soliciting money to help pay for lodging and other expenses so that the search team could come and look for Dylan at Vallecito Lake. Hopefully the search team can come and do their job soon.

Keeping the search for Dylan quite because of personal reasons is not right as far as I'm concerned.

Sometimes people need to make personal sacrifices when a child is missing. MOO.

 

[dlc]

<modsnip>


I think some of the confusion might be caused by the use of the buddy system. I know that pictures were linked earlier, but I'm providing an NPS statement on buddy diving procedures that might help clear things up.

BBM

"Buddy System

All diving shall be planned and executed in such a manner as to ensure that every diver maintains constant, effective communication with at least one other appropriately equipped diver in the water. This buddy system is based upon mutual assistance, especially in the case of an emergency. Dives should be planned around the competency of the least experienced diver. The buddy range may vary depending on time, depth, and other conditions. It should never be a greater distance than that which is necessary for one diver to render immediate aid to another diver.

(snipped for length)

It is recognized that there are instances, on actual search, rescue and recovery operations, where a buddy may actually present a major safety problem to the diver(s), such as in swift water, cramped spots, zero visibility/entanglement or combinations of these where the presence of another individual may actually complicate the situation sufficiently to be unsafe. In these cases the diver will be tethered. A plan will be agreed upon prior to the single diver entering the water. Where an enclosed or confined space is not large enough for two divers, a diver shall be stationed at the underwater point of entry and an orientation (tether) line shall be used. For most diving operations the buddy system must be used.


The need to be able to render "immediate aid" limits the distance between divers. Even if a tether is used, another diver capable of diving (i.e., with sufficient times between dives) must be on point.

 

[NC Analyzer]

Just because the family has hosted fundraisers for Dylan, doesn't mean they "owe" the public any explanations for who they decide to have come in and conduct searches or when those searches will take place. If anyone objects to the way the fund is handled, I'm sure there are places you could lodge a complaint. Or request to see how the funds are spent. If people don't want to contribute to Dylan's fund, they don't have to. There is nothing that gives me any reason to think they owe the public anything.

 

[dlc]

Do you have a link saying that the specific area near the dam where LE searched is more than 40 feet? Or just the general information above?

What other links are you looking for from me tomorrow? I responded to your request for a link to the 40 feet. I gave you four links to the 40 feet. You even quoted three of them that I posted for you.

I'm sorry; I guess I misunderstood. You had written: (BBM)

"Articles about the depth being 40 feet have been linked just recently. I'll link them again for you though, but it probably won't be until tomorrow.

ETA - Well, here's one article about the 40 feet. It happened to be in the article I had about one dive every hours. I'll get you more of the 40 feet articles tomorrow. I'm in the middle of a movie, just waiting for my husband to take a quick break."


So I thought you had other links, but couldn't get to them until tomorrow.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder, and suppose the divers have worked with the dam engineers to determine patterns of water flow and how objects would most likely travel? I wonder if they conducted predictive modeling using a computer program?

 

[dlc]

Photo gallery at this link shows, some divers out there in pairs, and then looks like those closer to shore, are on a safety line

would think..JMO, that those not on a line would be in pairs, for safety reasons..


pic
http://www.durangoherald.com/apps/p...NEWS01&ArtNo=112609999&Ref=PH&Item=7&MaxH=400

gallery
http://www.durangoherald.com/apps/p...NEWS01&ArtNo=112609999&Ref=PH&Item=7&MaxH=400

Thank you KateNY. I had a post all ready about the buddy-diving system and the National Park Service regulations, but somehow it got away from me. Hopefully it will materialize again. I think my computer is going wonky tonight.

 

[dlc]

I wonder, and suppose the divers have worked with the dam engineers to determine patterns of water flow and how objects would most likely travel? I wonder if they conducted predictive modeling using a computer program?

I have no idea, but good questions.

 

[Money Girl]

Just because the family has hosted fundraisers for Dylan, doesn't mean they "owe" the public any explanations for who they decide to have come in and conduct searches or when those searches will take place. If anyone objects to the way the fund is handled, I'm sure there are places you could lodge a complaint. Or request to see how the funds are spent. If people don't want to contribute to Dylan's fund, they don't have to. There is nothing that gives me any reason to think they owe the public anything.

I would assume they have to get permission from LE and make LE aware of the times the searches will be conducted.

 

[KateNY]

I imagine that once the search actually begins, we will all hear about it..

and

I also imagine that with Dylan missing, that the family is experiencing the excruciating pain of personal sacrifice.


just :twocents:

 

[Money Girl]

I imagine that once the search actually begins, we will all hear about it..

and

I also imagine that with Dylan missing, that the family is experiencing the excruciating pain of personal sacrifice.


just :twocents:

Oh, I so agree. Mark and all of them have been in pain for several months now. My heart and prayers go out to everyone.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I imagine that once the search actually begins, we will all hear about it..

and

I also imagine that with Dylan missing, that the family is experiencing the excruciating pain of personal sacrifice.


just :twocents:

Here's what I'm dwelling on tonight:
The dogs hit on areas near the dam repeatedly
The mom is relentless in her search of the dam
The father refuses to take another poly

I want a miracle too, but I also think a mothers heart is rarely wrong.
My prayers continue.....

 

[Salem]

STOP with the ganging up on each other.

When a poster "agrees to disagree" that is the end of the conversation. THE END.

Move on. Don't keep going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. MOVE ON.

Salem

 

[Ghostwheel]

I would assume they have to get permission from LE and make LE aware of the times the searches will be conducted.

I would not think they would need permission, but they would probably let them know when they are searching.... I guess I'm thinking that LE hasn't kept anyone else away from the reservoir, they haven't cordoned it off, told anyone they cannot fish in it or anything of that nature. It's public lands and, to my knowledge, if the search and rescue team have any needed permits (I don't know if they need a permit for Vallecito) and/or paid public land fees (if they are required at Vallecito-I know some public lands charge fees for day use and camping, etc and some do not), there is no reason they need permission from local LE.

 

[Money Girl]

Thanks for the reply, Ghostwheel. I guess I just thought they would need permission from whomever is in charge of the investigation. I don't know how accuracy of evidence could be assured without the authorities on site.

My cousin in a county sheriff in NC. Guess I could ask him. Don't know if it would be the same in CO.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

Dear Cheese,

Thank you for these links.

I have found the following, among other sources:


BBM

http://www.eatstayplay.com/html/co/a2198p306c2053.html

which notes that:

Vallecito Reservoir is a scenic, high mountain reservoir built in 1941 and has 2,700 surface acres of water and 22.0 miles of shoreline. The mountain lake is approximately 167 feet deep at the dam and is at an elevation of 7,665 feet. It is a cold water lake with fishing and boating being the main activities.

As well as this:

http://4cornershikesdol.blogspot.com/2011/08/vallecito-lake-walk-path.html

which says:

There is a small parking area with a restroom and the Walk Path is clearly marked. The top of the dam elevation is about 7673 feet. The normal depth of water is 121.5 feet.


(BTW, for anyone interested, the second link has some good lake photos.)


Hopefully, these explain my interest in your sources. I'll check back for the other links tomorrow.

Thanks again.

There was a severe drought at the time. Article below states that Vallecito Reservoir was only 30% full right then. So 30% puts Vallecito Reservoir around 55 feet at its' deepest point.

http://www.cortezjournal.com/articl...Bleak-water-levels-for---Dolores-River-McPhee

 

[Redhead72]

I must have missed the report saying the divers only had 8 to 10 feet of visibility. That seems to be pretty poor for an alpine lake IMO.

I would like to know the depth of the lake where the HRD dogs alerted and the divers went in and checked it out. It's possible that it was near the dam and only be about 40 feet deep in November.

Wouldn't the lake be at it's lowest at that time of year? MOO.

The lowest the lake goes in depth at the dam is 110 ft. So, no, it was not 40 ft. at the dam in November. It was at least 110 ft.

 

[Redhead72]

There was a severe drought at the time. Article below states that Vallecito Reservoir was only 30% full right then. So 30% puts Vallecito Reservoir around 55 feet at its' deepest point.

http://www.cortezjournal.com/articl...Bleak-water-levels-for---Dolores-River-McPhee

How do you get 55 ft. at its deepest point??

You can't just take a percentage of an average depth and then figure out how deep the lake would be in the deepest part... Water runs downhill, and the deepest part of the lake would still maintain its depth - unless the shallower parts were totally dry.

This isn't basic math anymore... You need to start doing volume measurements if you're going to start saying things like the lake at the dam was 50 ft. below normal. Even using basic math 55 ft. is still wrong. If the lowest measurement in the deepest part is 110 ft. then 30% lower than that would be 77 ft. deep still. And, I know that's not the type of math we should be using anyway.

Also please note - we are talking about a reservoir that when it is at it fullest - the maximum depth is 165 feet.

What we really need to put all of this to rest, imo is a topographical depth map of the lake itself. And then pinpoint the areas searched/where the dogs hit.

I won't belabor the point any longer, but there is no way the reservoir at the dam was only 55 ft. deep last November... Absolutely not physically possible.

 

[TxLady2]

Thanks for the reply, Ghostwheel. I guess I just thought they would need permission from whomever is in charge of the investigation. I don't know how accuracy of evidence could be assured without the authorities on site.

My cousin in a county sheriff in NC. Guess I could ask him. Don't know if it would be the same in CO.

Hi, Money Girl. I don't think they need LE's permission to do the search, but it would be common courtesy to keep them informed as to when it will take place, so that they could station some deputies around for crowd control. You also make a good point about the evidence, if any is found. I don't know if there is a way to tell how long something has been in the water, so if there were no LE there to verify where and when it was found, it might be a problem.
I don't understand the secrecy behind the whole thing. There is nothing dignified about finding a dead body, and one should realize that any expectation of privacy flies out the window in a missing child case. No one has seemed to care much about retaining a sense of dignity or privacy where the father is concerned, so... don't expect the public to respect theirs, is the way I look at it.
MOO, and all that.