CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS

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Dee10 said:
"So far, the items that have been found are not enough to make an actual cause of death or manner of death," La Plata County Coroner Jann Smith said in a telephone message.

"Until investigation goes a little further, we may not know exactly what happened to Dylan," Smith said.

http://gazette.com/coroner-cause-of-dylan-redwines-death-may-go-unsolved/article/1503066
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Ugh! This worries me. So far not enough for a COD or MOD? Please don't let this be true!
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Regarding Mark's statement above about the scat...:facepalm:

Why, why, why would a parent want to release this detail about their child's remains? In my opinion, there is a more tactful way. How about a finger tip was found and leave out the details of the coyote scat! Even better, follow LE's request and not release any details. Even worse, it was passed on to non family members who released the info on Tricia's show. What if Elaine had not had the chance to talk to Dylan's family and they found out about Dylan's remains via Mark's mouth. Just as an example, Betsy and her sons. Her sons are Dylan's brothers. I hope they did not find out this way. Good grief have some class and dignity!
 
http://www.9news.com/news/article/343443/339/Investigators-look-for-clues-in-Redwine-case
LA PLATA COUNTY - Investigators were back out on Middle Mountain Wednesday afternoon, searching for additional clues that could lead them to Dylan Redwine's killer.


Some of the 13-year-old's remains were discovered on a desolate side of Middle Mountain last week. Along with Redwine's remains, detectives also found the boy's shirt and one of his shoes.


On Wednesday, investigators combed different areas of Middle Mountain with search dogs.
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Why on earth did they stop searching in the first place!!!???!!! Sorry, rant over.

Ok here's what's in my head. All my own opinion here.

LE thinks they know who did it and how. They go to DA to see if they have enough to arrest, DA says, "not without a body." (doesn't know if homicide or kidnapping at that point) Out they go over months' and months' time searching for remains. They find some, think "this proves homicide." Turn the remains over to the coroner, coroner says "nope, not enough to prove homicide." So back out to this mountain they go.

I hope this is true. Because this would mean that they may be close to pulling this all together.
 
Wondering if the shirt and one shoe were found today? Maybe we will hear more from a different news source.
 
ColdHands said:
Why on earth did they stop searching in the first place!!!???!!! Sorry, rant over.

Ok here's what's in my head. All my own opinion here.

LE thinks they know who did it and how. They go to DA to see if they have enough to arrest, DA says, "not without a body." (doesn't know if homicide or kidnapping at that point) Out they go over months' and months' time searching for remains. They find some, think "this proves homicide." Turn the remains over to the coroner, coroner says "nope, not enough to prove homicide." So back out to this mountain they go.

I hope this is true. Because this would mean that they may be close to pulling this all together.
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Mmm, sorry, can't see them finding a few bits and thinking "that'll do". Particularly as they'd not found what I'd consider key bones for proving homicide - skull and any from the torso (e.g. for indications blunt force trauma, stabbing, shooting). It's just not their job to make a decision as to how much is enough. I'm really puzzled as to why they would say they had found all they were going to - even if for some reason they thought it was true, it's not a statement I'd want to make publicly!
 
Wolf Dreamer said:
Mmm, sorry, can't see them finding a few bits and thinking "that'll do". Particularly as they'd not found what I'd consider key bones for proving homicide - skull and any from the torso (e.g. for indications blunt force trauma, stabbing, shooting). It's just not their job to make a decision as to how much is enough. I'm really puzzled as to why they would say they had found all they were going to - even if for some reason they thought it was true, it's not a statement I'd want to make publicly!
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Maybe they would say that to try and make an unnamed POI a little more comfortable? Keep him talking? And maybe he was telling a partial truth... "We've recovered everything we are going to" without adding "from this specific area" or "in this search".

I never really thought they would just quit searching. But I will not be surprised if they are searching a near by area, not the same exact area. Remains and items could be spread out pretty far.
 
margarita25 said:
Omg, they found a shoe today? And his shirt? (not the fragment prev referred too? and this isn't a misprint as to the one sock, (shoe) right?) 9news is a pretty reliable source in this case IMO...KT has been there from the start...

<Heart is beating fast, dizzy again, omg>
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Where is the link for this?
 
I am not reading that those items were found today, and the shoe may be an error, even. But who knows...
 
AnotherSetOfEyes said:
Is there much chance of convicting someone of murder if the death certificate does not state homicide? Does anyone know of cases where this has happened?
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Been skimming through this - http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_me.pdf (Medical Examiners' and Coroners' Handbook on Death Registration) - and it lists:

Natural; Accident; Suicide; Homicide; Could Not be Determined; and Pending Investigation.

The coroner can use information from other sources, e.g. the police investigation, and LE have apparently ruled out the first 3.

Personally if you can convict without a body, I see no reason why - as long you have compelling evidence - someone couldn't be convicted. Cases have been reopened where someone's death was ruled accidental and subsequent events suggested a new look was needed (just last week - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/29/felix-vail-indicted-wife-murder_n_3522148.html although how that was ever ruled an accident I don't know).

But you need compelling evidence.. and I just don't think LE have any here, or they would have acted.
 
Wolf Dreamer said:
Mmm, sorry, can't see them finding a few bits and thinking "that'll do". Particularly as they'd not found what I'd consider key bones for proving homicide - skull and any from the torso (e.g. for indications blunt force trauma, stabbing, shooting). It's just not their job to make a decision as to how much is enough. I'm really puzzled as to why they would say they had found all they were going to - even if for some reason they thought it was true, it's not a statement I'd want to make publicly!
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IMO, by them finding only a few of Dylan's bones, that it would be only the beginning of the search. To our knowledge, he started out as a healthy 13 year old boy, who's life was taken by some unknown manner. If he had died in a tragedy, like 9/11, then a single bone fragment might be the only remains that the family would be given to bury. But because he was most likely murdered by someone who probably dumped his entire body, I would have to agree that the finding of a few bones should intensify the search, not end it. Assuming that Dylan was hit in the head with blunt force trauma, then there might be multiple pieces of skull bone. Adolescence still have sutures, and blunt force trauma could cause fractures on these lines. Sutures usually become more solid (joined), after the age of 30. If he was killed with a gunshot wound, then a single piece of skull bone could show signs of internal or external beveling. Internal beveling from the entrance wound. Close range shots could show signs of gunpowder burning. Bones that have been found that have animal bite marks or breaks, that are lighter than the rest of the bone, might show a postmortem break or damage. If the bone and damage are all the same color, then that might show a perimortem injury or damage. As far as strangulation is concerned, some signs of strangulation are a broken Hyoid bone, the horseshoe bone beneath a tongue. The problem with adolescents, is that their Hyoid bones are still flexible. If Dylan was strangled, then this could have occurred, without the Hyoid bone having been broken. I would think that LE would be out there with Cadaver dogs, which have been known to find bones as old as 25 years. If they found Dylan's shoelace separate from his Air Jordons and tied in some specialized knot (like a truckers hitch), then they might be looking at suspect with a certain occupation. I am guessing that the average nylon shoestrings have at least a few hundred pounds of tensile strength. People who have specialized hiking boots, or who have Paracord 550 bootlaces have a tensile strength of 550 pounds. Some skateboarders replace their shoelaces with OldKooks Shoelaces, and they have a tensile strength of 1600 pounds. They would have to look at what the shoelace was used for, and see if the shoelace would have the strength to do that job. Wikipedia claims that:

"Estimates have been made that significant occlusion of the carotid arteries and jugular veins occurs with a pressure of around 3.4 N/cm², while the trachea demands six times more at approximately 22 N/cm².[7]"

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling"]Strangling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

3.4 N/cm2 converts to around 5 pounds per square inch and 22 N/cm2 converts to around 32 pounds per square inch. So strangulation could easily be done with an average shoelace, well under the tensile strength.

Here is an older article, but still interesting, on Cadaver Dogs:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

I am not an expert in any of these areas, so please do follow up research. I am only stating some observations and opinions.
 
AnotherSetOfEyes said:
Is there much chance of convicting someone of murder if the death certificate does not state homicide? Does anyone know of cases where this has happened?
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Laci Peterson

COD Unknown
MOD Homicide

Certificate should state both COD & MOD

:twocents:
 
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