CO - Gannon Stauch, 11, found deceased, Colorado Springs, El Paso County, 27 Jan 2020 *Arrest* #59

[10ofRods]

My partner has chemical sensitivities, especially to heavily perfumed things. We use baking soda and vinegar to clean most things. We already know vinegar is in play at this crime scene, there were photographs taken of a vinegar bottle in the laundry, a witness discussed it early on, can't recall which one.

That said, baking soda is great at absorbing odours. I just don't know that it would win in a fight against decomposition, when I generally have to apply handfuls of the stuff several times over a few days to deal with the odour of a pet accident on the carpet. We know Terry Rasmussen had success with perfumed kitty litter, but I think he used about twenty bags of the stuff, and he wasn't transporting his victim.

MOO

Oh, but the archaeological record disagrees although yes, it would have to be reapplied - usually in a thin solution and Egyptians mixed it with other things thought to speed drying. Egyptians used Natron (very chemically similar to baking soda, found naturally at various places around Africa, most especially Lake Natron) to preserve bodies from some degree of decomp for a ritual period of 40 days. Naturally, they did other things to the body to prepare it for the next step in mummification, but while they were going those things, they used Natron.

Natron is baking soda plus ordinary table salt, as used in the Egyptian recipe anyway.

I have posted a couple of links including one that talks about using regular baking soda to slow decomp (any desiccant will work; baking soda is a desiccant).

If you google the question of how to slow decomp or remove the smells of decomp, google will tell you that baking soda is a good idea:

Here's a typical google hit:

How Do You Remove Death or Decomposition Odor?

Find information on how to remove death or decomposition odor from your home. Learn about potential hazards and how to protect yourself.

www.advancedbio-treatment.com

The Egyptians knew this by around 3600 years ago (maybe earlier) and other ancient cultures did it as well

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/030751333201800125?journalCode=egaa

It's the reason that it works as a deodorizer (the carpet would have smelled of both blood and smoke - baking soda works well on both).

So far no testimony on its use on the carpet, probably because she thoroughly cleaned the carpet afterward (and couldn't get under the bed).

IOW, baking soda's deodorizing properties are due to the very fact that it 1) dries things out which inhibits bacteria, mold and fungal growth - things that people don't like the smell of and 2) therefore inhibits the decomp created by bacteriological processes in the body.

In some autopsies, the body is actually coated with a baking soda based spray (which, if that happens, would obliterate its prior use by a murderer - but it's common enough that I do wonder if the forensic pathologist would have thought to test for its presence first). Most of my texts on this subject are from 2012 or earlier (so a decade old), but handbooks for forensic pathologists do not consistently list "check for presence of baking soda on the body."

And here's another aspect: baking soda itself decomposes gradually in moist conditions (including high humidity). In reading the recipes for its use in pathology labs (to slow decomp on any animal under study), it only takes a thin solution of it to slow decomp - which, as I noted, Ancient Egyptians knew and it's not so difficult to find on the internet. So I await the results of the forensic examination of T's various devices and search engines, which surely they have.

So that can of Extreme Deodorizer (the Arm and Hammer brand has jasmine and citrus added as fragrance - just as the Egyptians added certain fragrant herbs to their mix, which was then smoothed in small amounts on the skin of the dead - if they were to become mummies).

IMO.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Man she's creepy looking.

For some reason that picture reminds me of the evil one giving snow white the apple jmoo

 

[PawneeDew]

Brenda would be a great (hostile) witness for the prosecution because clearly Brenda thought T. was sane and everything was good or normal with her.

Right? I mean, surely Aunt Brenda knew T. very well and found her credible and in need of help because, as usual, someone was persecuting her (which is probably a family philosophy - that they are "persecuted" esp. by law enforcement).

IMO.

Is she not on witness list?? I thought there was quite a few witnesses left still....For some reason I thought she was on the witness list?

 

[iamshadow21]

Oh, but the archaeological record disagrees although yes, it would have to be reapplied - usually in a thin solution and Egyptians mixed it with other things thought to speed drying. Egyptians used Natron (very chemically similar to baking soda, found naturally at various places around Africa, most especially Lake Natron) to preserve bodies from some degree of decomp for a ritual period of 40 days. Naturally, they did other things to the body to prepare it for the next step in mummification, but while they were going those things, they used Natron.

Natron is baking soda plus ordinary table salt, as used in the Egyptian recipe anyway.

I have posted a couple of links including one that talks about using regular baking soda to slow decomp (any desiccant will work; baking soda is a desiccant).

If you google the question of how to slow decomp or remove the smells of decomp, google will tell you that baking soda is a good idea:

Here's a typical google hit:

How Do You Remove Death or Decomposition Odor?

Find information on how to remove death or decomposition odor from your home. Learn about potential hazards and how to protect yourself.

www.advancedbio-treatment.com

The Egyptians knew this by around 3600 years ago (maybe earlier) and other ancient cultures did it as well

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/030751333201800125?journalCode=egaa

It's the reason that it works as a deodorizer (the carpet would have smelled of both blood and smoke - baking soda works well on both).

So far no testimony on its use on the carpet, probably because she thoroughly cleaned the carpet afterward (and couldn't get under the bed).

IOW, baking soda's deodorizing properties are due to the very fact that it 1) dries things out which inhibits bacteria, mold and fungal growth - things that people don't like the smell of and 2) therefore inhibits the decomp created by bacteriological processes in the body.

In some autopsies, the body is actually coated with a baking soda based spray (which, if that happens, would obliterate its prior use by a murderer - but it's common enough that I do wonder if the forensic pathologist would have thought to test for its presence first). Most of my texts on this subject are from 2012 or earlier (so a decade old), but handbooks for forensic pathologists do not consistently list "check for presence of baking soda on the body."

And here's another aspect: baking soda itself decomposes gradually in moist conditions (including high humidity). In reading the recipes for its use in pathology labs (to slow decomp on any animal under study), it only takes a thin solution of it to slow decomp - which, as I noted, Ancient Egyptians knew and it's not so difficult to find on the internet. So I await the results of the forensic examination of T's various devices and search engines, which surely they have.

So that can of Extreme Deodorizer (the Arm and Hammer brand has jasmine and citrus added as fragrance - just as the Egyptians added certain fragrant herbs to their mix, which was then smoothed in small amounts on the skin of the dead - if they were to become mummies).

IMO.

I agree the ancient Egyptians knew their stuff, I just imagine that the volume of baking soda needed would have been... impractical, in this particular circumstance. But I haven't mummified anybody, just watched way too much History channel, so I'll bow to your greater knowledge of human anatomy.

MOO

 

[PawneeDew]

For some reason that picture reminds me of the evil one giving snow white the apple jmoo

Omg. This has to be the post of the week. That cracked me up.

 

[Soulmagent]

Huh-- was this brought up by the defense?

It's not like LS committed a misdemeanor where an accessory charge would be a petty offense!

Being an accessory to a felon (class-1 murder) is a felony. And if the defendant is outside of Colorado, the statute of limitations pauses (tolls) for up to five years.

I'm not seeing that HH was free from prosecution based on the statute of limitations. JMO

"Accessory to Crime" - Colorado Law - CRS § 18-8-105

CRS § 18-8-105 is the Colorado law defining "accessory after the fact," which is helping a criminal avoid getting caught, arrested, convicted, or sentenced.

www.shouselaw.com

The charges were probably talked about prior to trial ,and it was probably related to some tactic where they told her they would charge her for lying if she was found to be lying . She wasnt . impedding an investigation lying to a LE officer ..etc.. there is a lot of playground here for investigators to use. She was not found to be lying and ,she is pretty compliant and seems to have been the whole time.

 

[Ontario Mom]

For some reason that picture reminds me of the evil one giving snow white the apple jmoo

I literally just googled for the same exact image. That's exactly who she looks like.

 

[Curious Me]

That's what I said... bored. I'm glad it doesn't make your blood boil. We are built differently, I guess.

We are all built different or we've gone through different types of experiences. Anyways, no blood boiling and getting into the hate. I've followed countless cases now, and watched many trials. Somewhere along the way, I started to protect myself emotionally more. It can really do you harm otherwise. ​

 

[10ofRods]

I know the burden is on the prosecution - I should have added that in my post so as not to confuse other people.

But at the same time the defense has to have *some* basis for their claim. IOW they can't just say "Oh, my client isn't guilty because she has DID" without some expert basis for the claim. I think.

So they have an expert doctor in line to testify that Letecia has DID and what... that an alternate personality murdered Gannon? That she was in some sort of psychotic break when she killed him? Do they plan to rely solely on one doctor's diagnosis?

I guess what I really meant was that IMO their strategy of sitting back and asking lackluster questions on cross makes it appear that the defense has no real evidence of their NGRI claim. At least it may look that way to the jury. Remember Mohammad Ali's old Rope A Dope tactic to let the opponent tire himself out? That's not going to work here IMO, lol.

IMO if their strategy is to wait to pull out the big reveal when it's their turn they risk having it backfire. The prosecution is doing a thorough job of showing that Letecia neither had a psychotic break nor manifested an alternate personality. All MOO of course.

We shall see. You are more optimistic than I am that the defense must establish she's insane. I read the law in CO differently. They will certain get their expert up there, Dr Lewis will testify about T's mental issues. But they do not have to prove that the expert is right.

The prosecution must disprove the evidence cited by that expert. I don't think they'll go into the details of her mental illness very much. They'll argue that she's prima facie insane (using facts from the case) and Dr. Lewis will sign off on that.

The prosecution must demolish this defense by proving she's sane. Right now, the general public polled on Law and Crime channel is running 97% to GUILTY (but not insane). Only 2% think she's NGRI and 1% are undecided (this was as of last night).

We presume people innocent in our court system - and the prosecution has to prove guilt. Same thing here. She's presumed insane though (rather than in many states, where someone making the plea of NGRI is presumed sane until proven otherwise). I posted the chart from FindLaw yesterday - but the states that work differently than CO are...in the large majority. IMO. DIfferent states also have different rules/laws about what constitutes legal insanity. It's summarized here:

The Insanity Defense Among the States - FindLaw

Most states allow criminal defendants to plead not guilty by reason of insanity if they can prove they lacked mental capacity for the crime. Learn about the insanity defense among the states and more at FindLaw's Criminal Procedure section.

www.findlaw.com

The only states with the "burden of proof is on the State" are:

Colorado
Florida
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Tennessee and
West Virgina

9 out of 50 states have this system. 4 have abolished the plea altogether (like Idaho) but the remainder place the burden of proof on the defendant, not the State. The defendant has to prove they are insane in the large majority of our states. 37 states make it so that the defendant has the burden of proof, most of us are more familiar with that system. I have never followed a trial where this law is in place.

And, what may be as bad is that Colorado doesn't use the usual M'Naghten rule of insanity. They use a modified M'Naghten, which is called Irresistible Impulse rule:

• The Irresistible Impulse Test - Defendant unable to control their impulses due to a mental disorder, leading to the commission of a criminal act.

(From findlaw, quoted just above).

IMO. Hopefully you can all now understand why this trial is making me incredibly anxious and I probably should stop paying attention, but I can't. When the verdict comes down, I want to understand it. I hope that I can understand it.

 

[10ofRods]

Is she not on witness list?? I thought there was quite a few witnesses left still....For some reason I thought she was on the witness list?

I have no idea. If she is, they may call her - or not call her. They are unlikely to call all of their witnesses, but they could definitely call her. I believe when they were discussing the witness who was known to the juror, one side mentioned that the witness was on the "maybe" list, thereby making me think they have prioritized their witnesses - but they have not shared that information with the public for all witnesses.

IMO.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/ZachNDupont


Last witness before today's lunch break was CSPD crime scene investigator Alyssa Berriesford, who described the blood stain patterns in Gannon's room as both "violent" and "dynamic.”

Berriesford went on to say that the scale of the blood in his room implied more than just a single event took place. In the first week of trial a medical examiner testified that Gannon was stabbed 18 times and suffered four blunt force trauma injuries and one gun shot to the head

 

[Curious Me]

Is she not on witness list??

Aunt Brenda? Yes, after some research, I know for a fact, Aunt Brenda is on the Defense Witness list here: https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/El_Paso/Stauch/20CR1358 - D48 Notice of Endorsement of Witnesses.pdf​

 

[iamshadow21]

We're back. Jury returning.

 

[arielilane]

New witness

 

[Warwick7]

One thing that has stuck with me about HH testimony today is when she talked about the time when they were in Alaska and LS came to her room and said “ C’mon let’s go have dinner. It’s the last meal we’ll have together.”

HH said what do you mean? LS said “ It’s too late - I already took them all.”

Of course the implication is that LS is threatening suicide.

Prosecutor asked HH “ Did she ever tell you what she meant?”

HH said No. It never came up again.

Prosecutor asked what happened next?

HH : We went to dinner.

I was on the edge of my seat going WHAT?!

Can you imagine being 15 or 16 years old and this is your life?

Gaslighting and messing with her head.
What a sick mommy dearest.

 

[cujenn81]

I know more about bipolar disorder than I ever cared to know because my mom has it. And while LS has exhibited signs of possible mania at times (specifically, impulsivity, pressurized speech, and an exaggerated sense of self), her behavior could just as easily be indicative of other disorders. Borderline Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, and Narcissistic Personality Disorder are a few that come to mind. But, more importantly, I haven’t seen a shred of evidence that suggests she's ever suffered from psychosis.

Psychotic episodes don’t just magically go away or resolve their own. That’s not how psychosis works. I have to assume that’s why she's claiming she was in a dissociative state instead. Recovering from psychosis is a hard, lengthy process that often requires hospitalization. For family members, it can often feel like an excruciating and painful slog of two steps forward and three steps back. No one having a psychotic episode can make the kind of methodical plans LS made. They would never be able to conceal a body without detection for even a brief period of time. They would never be able to muster up the kind of focus required to move clear across the country with such purpose. When my mom was in the throes of psychosis, she circled images of Santa Claus on a Where’s Waldo? activity sheet and wrote her name backwards and upside down like that possessed chick from that movie Stigmata.

Sadly, I’m not joking.

It's possible that LS was hospitalized for mania or depression when she lied to HH and said she had cancer years ago. But I didn't see anything that resembled either of those things during her trip back to Colorado with the police. And we know she wasn't hospitalized between the day she killed Gannon and her arrest. Considering the fact that psychosis doesn't just resolve on its own, I think it's clear LS wasn't suffering from a psychotic break at the time of and/or after Gannon's death.
IMHO

 

[Chelly]

Back from lunch recess. Court is live. LS appears to be seriously studying a law book.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree the ancient Egyptians knew their stuff, I just imagine that the volume of baking soda needed would have been... impractical, in this particular circumstance. But I haven't mummified anybody, just watched way too much History channel, so I'll bow to your greater knowledge of human anatomy.

MOO

It's actually not that much. I thought so too. But today I went to the forensic journals and found that spraying a light solution of baking powder on a body helps preserve it during the autopsy period (this is especially used in veterinary medicine, but around the world, it's used for humans as well). It needs to be reapplied if days and days go by. By the time the body was found, there would be no further aid from the baking soda (if applied - although knowing T., she could have dumped a lot in there), The soda itself might have mostly decomposed or entirely decomposed (which is why if your carpet is an issue, you might have to reapply several times).

But I figure that the cold was her first idea about slowing decomp, and if she used baking soda, it might have helped delay for a few more days. Indeed, since decomp occurs more quickly in humid environments, she ought not to have headed for FL - but her nerves must have been jangling, because I figure she knew decomp would be accelerated by damp.

That's why she tried to throw him into the water.

All my speculation, JMO. At any rate, the volume of baking soda used for this purpose in Egypt was very small (kind of like using talcum powder on a baby - so not that much). Indeed, one could mix the baking soda with talc to good effect for this purpose or with arrowroot or cornstarch. All of those things do decompose into other products and might well be undetectable three months out.

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

We shall see. You are more optimistic than I am that the defense must establish she's insane. I read the law in CO differently. They will certain get their expert up there, Dr Lewis will testify about T's mental issues. But they do not have to prove that the expert is right.

The prosecution must disprove the evidence cited by that expert. I don't think they'll go into the details of her mental illness very much. They'll argue that she's prima facie insane (using facts from the case) and Dr. Lewis will sign off on that.

The prosecution must demolish this defense by proving she's sane. Right now, the general public polled on Law and Crime channel is running 97% to GUILTY (but not insane). Only 2% think she's NGRI and 1% are undecided (this was as of last night).

We presume people innocent in our court system - and the prosecution has to prove guilt. Same thing here. She's presumed insane though (rather than in many states, where someone making the plea of NGRI is presumed sane until proven otherwise). I posted the chart from FindLaw yesterday - but the states that work differently than CO are...in the large majority. IMO. DIfferent states also have different rules/laws about what constitutes legal insanity. It's summarized here:

The Insanity Defense Among the States - FindLaw

Most states allow criminal defendants to plead not guilty by reason of insanity if they can prove they lacked mental capacity for the crime. Learn about the insanity defense among the states and more at FindLaw's Criminal Procedure section.

www.findlaw.com

The only states with the "burden of proof is on the State" are:

Colorado
Florida
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Tennessee and
West Virgina

9 out of 50 states have this system. 4 have abolished the plea altogether (like Idaho) but the remainder place the burden of proof on the defendant, not the State. The defendant has to prove they are insane in the large majority of our states. 37 states make it so that the defendant has the burden of proof, most of us are more familiar with that system. I have never followed a trial where this law is in place.

And, what may be as bad is that Colorado doesn't use the usual M'Naghten rule of insanity. They use a modified M'Naghten, which is called Irresistible Impulse rule:

• The Irresistible Impulse Test - Defendant unable to control their impulses due to a mental disorder, leading to the commission of a criminal act.

(From findlaw, quoted just above).

IMO. Hopefully you can all now understand why this trial is making me incredibly anxious and I probably should stop paying attention, but I can't. When the verdict comes down, I want to understand it. I hope that I can understand it.

Too bad for the defense that T maintained a veritable spree of violence, sustained over nearly 24 hours, with typical functioning in between. Leaving her phone behind, going shopping, answering the door, sending little L away. No one-time crime of passion, no obvious psychotic break. Just self-serving T serving herself.

So it wasn't spontaneous and Irresistible. She assembled her kill kit -- or went in search as she needed. Methodical, calculated. Many opportunities to cease and desist, including when she did exactly that, for a period overnight between the fire and the truck video.

Soulless wretch.

Jmo

 

[BadRx]

Someone had posted the other day that LS was studying the psych book (I forget the name of it). I kind of wonder if that is why she is behaving how she is, because she read symptoms in that book. Just my thoughts.