CO - James Holmes Trial - *Penalty Phase* #3

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Movie theater really couldn't have done anything. Dr Fenton could have. Most of you here do not have a very mentally ill adult son or daughter. Thank goodness so it's very hard for you to understand. I've been going through this with good and bad psychiatrist for many years including the legal system for all my Sons arrests and hospital commitments. I am in no way making excuses for the shooter. I have a very opened mind and unbiased. I don't like it when people are like a lynch mob. This trial needs to be over soon. This whole trial makes me so angry on both sides. I hope it's over soon I really need a break from it.

Do you feel like we've been like a "lynch mob" here? I hope I haven't. I have been outspoken at times. This case has upset me. I've also taken breaks at times because some of the testimony has worried or scared me based on my past issues with OCD and depression. The last thing I wanted to do was have unsettling thoughts put into my mind.

If anything on the internet upsets you its best to just take a break. Don't it irritate you or take your peace away. We are all faceless people from all walks of life sitting behind computer screens. We won't always agree. I hope we can all be respectful of each other's viewpoint.

I'm sorry if any of my comments have irritated or angered anyone. I would be sad if my comments caused upset.


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((whiteorchids)) So sorry that i feel your pain . Many folks ...including myself at one time "thought " homicidal thoughts ...but Never had a plan ...just wanted others to die in my thoughts ..

That is all the doctor had ..how could she put him into detention with that . I'll agree to disagree ..

Lol. Your entitled to disagree. Going by my experiences with this matter. I know what she could have done. He relayed to her he wanted to kill lots of people. He was letting her know. Once he says that it is up to her to have him committed. Not his choice in the matter. That was in a since a threat especially being on a college campus. It's not normal to have those thoughts even if MI. Something was wrong. Obviously he did what he told her and that is exactly what he did.

Let's get off this subject. We obviously don't all agree here. I was merely stating my opinion. It's too late now anyway.
 
Do you think it will end with phase two or go into phase three? I have s feeling the deliberations will take longer. If it doesn't will we still hear victim impact statements?
 
Thanks to all those who posted the trial today. I appreciate it!
 
I can't believe Dr Fenton never called his parents back after they left Voicemails. I believe she had a moral obligation to tell his parents he had intrusive thoughts of killing. It makes me so mad she didn't even bother to call them as seriously Ill as he was. SHE DID NOTHING!!!

I think Fenton had a moral obligation to have JH committed on psychiatric hold. She had the power to do this. I to this day think this could have been prevented if should would have let the flood gates open. She had a choice and didn't do it. I hope she gets sued by every victim including JH parents. She held the key to getting him committed.

She knew and did NOTHING!!!

While I agree she should have called his parents back, I honestly don't believe there's any more she could have done, otherwise. I certainly don't believe she's to blame for this heinous crime.

The defendant would not have agreed to voluntarily commit himself, and she didn't have enough "evidence" to prove that he was a danger to himself or others (she wasn't aware a notebook even existed back then & he lied to her about having specific plans). Without knowing those things, coupled with the fact that he wasn't acting incoherent, or psychotic, or out-of-touch with reality at the time, it's unlikely that a judge would have agreed to an involuntary confinement. Psychiatric patients say terrifying things and make empty threats about all kinds of things, all the time, to their doctors. But the majority of those patients never make a plan, act on it, or even mean it.

Every psych doctor on this planet has probably found themselves in a terrible Catch 22 at least once throughout their career. These doctors worry about being sued if they commit a patient who might not need to be committed. They worry about being sued or losing their license if they violate HIPPA laws if it wasn't absolutely necessary (which is a grossly objective decision to make---and will ultimately rely on the decision of a review board who doesn't even know their patient). They worry about making a poor judgment call--like trusting a patient who says he doesn't have a plan to carry out a verbal threat.

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Hindsight will always be 20/20, but those decisions are incredibly difficult to ascertain in the present tense. All they can do is use what they've learned through their education and experience, and follow the legal guidelines that are set in place. But they aren't mind readers or psychics... they're human and can't predict the future any more than anyone else can, and unfortunately, sociopaths are experts at making others see what they want them to see.

ETA: I posted this essay (lol) before I read the other posts on the subject... so I hope no one thinks I'm trying to carry on the convo after it's over or jumping down anyone's throat or anything like that... because I'm definitely not. :)
 
Wow! Nelson is really mucking up the instructions to benefit her buddy jimmy! changing words, yikes, rewrite,rewrite. she's never satisfied with the 'standard' copy instructions.
 
Well, of course, has to be someone's fault except Jimmys'

Im sure she blames her son but realistically Dr Fenton could have put a halt to the plan. She knew his thoughts and could have made a call to have him taken away.

Ok ok let's quit talking about this. Lol
 
Do you think it will end with phase two or go into phase three? I have s feeling the deliberations will take longer. If it doesn't will we still hear victim impact statements?

I think the judge said that he is willing to hear as many victims as want to speak. He said it doesn't matter if it takes a few days.


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Wow! Nelson is really mucking up the instructions to benefit her buddy jimmy! changing words, yikes, rewrite,rewrite. she's never satisfied with the 'standard' copy instructions.

I think no matter how she changes words around jury has probably made up there mind by now.
 
I think the judge said that he is willing to hear as many victims as want to speak. He said it doesn't matter if it takes a few days.


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So even if they agree to life in phase two. The victims still get to speak right?
 
Wow! Nelson is really mucking up the instructions to benefit her buddy jimmy! changing words, yikes, rewrite,rewrite. she's never satisfied with the 'standard' copy instructions.

I'm amazed that she has turned her volume down today. She isn't anywhere near as belligerent as she was yesterday.


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OMG I Didn't say that. He is mentally ill but not insane. That's why laws are in place for people psychotic with homicidal or suicidal ideation/ delusions/ intrusive thoughts. A psychiatrist can, has authority to commit patient against the patients will if homicidal or suicidal. If she would have called the police dept to standby or hospital to put on involuntary 5150 hold he would have been evaluated and stabilized put on anti-psychotic meds. Being he was homicidal there was a good chance his apt would have been searched by police and he would be arrested in the hospital. All that bomb stuff would have been removed.

If Fenton would have done that the turn of this event could have had a different outcome. She made a very poor decision.

The shooter, James Holmes, made a very poor decision.
I have a 27 yr. old nephew with schizophrenia.....I've seen first hand his psychotic episodes and the hell his parents & Drs have gone through getting 5150 holds on him. James Holmes was not in the throes of a psychotic episode, had made no specific threats....time to accept that his severe mental illness was a personality disorder. MOO
 
((whiteorchids)) So sorry that i feel your pain . Many folks ...including myself at one time "thought " homicidal thoughts ...but Never had a plan ...just wanted others to die in my thoughts ..

That is all the doctor had ..how could she put him into detention with that . I'll agree to disagree ..

Unless and until any HC provider has Evidence due to HIPPA..their hands are tied:scared:...then again IF they had evidence..No brainer..put patient on HOLD!! Up here we cal "Formed"..72 hour HOLD!!!

The mere fact she contacted his mother speaks volumes of her concerns..BUT knowing the rule's she can NOT pursuit her (mother) but her gut forced her to at least contact family ( and of course family said..he's fine..no concerns and suppressed whatevers) ..THEIR collective hands were TIED!!

Blame the law..but not the ones constrained by that law.....I'm sure Fenton and by proxy Feinstein) regrets she couldn't have done more..BUt until laypeople realize the CONSTRAINTS..they will never realize how they (caregivers) are curtailed....:scared:

Visit's and sense cannot be evidence to declare someone unfit or in need to assessment..

Never did he suggest his mission..NEVER did he claim depression or any other symptoms ( hygiene and other symptomology) for that matter..

WHY?? because HE KNEW they would put him away. ( He even said as much in interviews)..

J. was large and in charge ..Don't blame the therapist given their constraints..Fenton actually was worried..but couldn't prove anything..AAS a women..she needed to just let J.'s mom know and try to get info..but to know avail....Mom had no idea that her son had plans to annialate so many innocents..BUT given the LAWS..there was NOT much else she could have done..

This is just one thing that has always bothered me.."Self- reporting" is NOT reliable..and cases followed indicates similar..Patient's often do not tell the truth...and practitioner's are barred from interacting with anyone who knows their patient as well as those who may have very important informations...:scared:

Having said all that..There's a very slim portion of MI folk who are homicidal..MOST often die at their own hands or get killed due to behaviours......Sad but true..J. Is a very intelligent mass murderer..LWOP..Fine with me..however DP charge forces this family history of exposure....so blame J...since his team refused to SHARE background with their Plea Deal...
 
So even if they agree to life in phase two. The victims still get to speak right?

I don't know for sure but I hope so. Surely they have that right? The defence objected to any emotional testimony during the guilt phase, they must be heard at some point.


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I'm so glad that Louisiana theater shooter shot himself. It saved taxpayers lots of money plus I don't think I could handle another trial like this. Lol
 
Homicidal thoughts. That's meets the criteria. She was worried enough to consult with other Drs. and school security. She didn't take the next step. I believe she said she thought about it. I can't remember but she down played it. Some of the victims families have filed suit.


Yes, and some filed suit against the online ammunition co. They lost. Just because someone sues doesn't mean it has merit.
 
I wonder why JH doesn't have his family on visitor list according to Dad. That's very strange.
 
Unless and tel any HC prover has Evidence due to HIPPA..their hands are tied..Ther mere fact she contacted his mother speaks volumes of her concerns..BUT knowing the rule's she can NOT pursuit her "Gut feeling" ..They can blame Fenton and Weinstein al they want..THEIR collective hands were TIED!! Blame the lawa..but not the ones constrained by that law.....I'm sure Fentein regrets she couldn't have do more..BUt until laypeople realize the CONSTRAINTS..they will never realize how they are curtailed....

Visit's and sense cannot be evidence IF declare someone unfit or in need to assessment..Never did he suggest his mission.l.NEVER did he claim depression or any other symptom for that matter..WHY?? because HE KNEW they would put him away....J. was large and anchorage..Don't blame the therapist given their constraints..Fenton actually was worried..but couldn't prove anything..AAS a women..she needed to just let J.'s mom know and try to get info..but to know avail....Mom had no idea that her son had plans to annialate so many innocents..BUT given the LAWS..there was NOT much else she could have done..

This is just one thing that has always bothered me.."Self- reporting" is NOT reliable..and cases followed indicates similar..Patient's often do not tell the truth...and practitioner's are barred from interacting with anyone who knows their patient as well as those who may have very important informations...

Having said all that..There's a very slim portion of MI folk who are homicidal..MOST often die at their own hands or get killed due to behaviours......Sad but true..J. Is a very intelligent mass murderer..LWOP..Fine with me..however DP charge forces this family history of exposure....so blame J...since his team refused to SHARE background with their Plea Deal...

FEINSTEIN - (German accent) lol!!!!


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I wonder why JH doesn't have his family on visitor list according to Dad. That's very strange.

Is it just the dad or the mom too? Maybe he couldn't face seeing them after what he did?


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