CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #13

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBJC/2012/10/19/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA ~ Here's the link to Wednesday, October 10.

The above is a great site for weather history I learned about here on WS.

Just type 'weather wunderground, with city and state'. I put in Westminster and see that Broomfield is the city from which the statistics are given.

In this case above, I clicked on the full month calendar. Scroll to see everything on the page.

Here's the link to the current day/ main page ~ http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/US/CO/Westminster.html

Thanks, I always use those sites for future weather, but didn't notice the historical data. Although, I tried to put in several areas closer to me and when I check historical, it keeps kicking me to Broomfield which says 10 miles visibility which I know wasn't true in my location on those dates.

Yes! I even thought about this but my mind played a trick on me and instead to checking went with the date given.

This is one fact we don't need to confuse - we have so few facts! Good job.

I corrected the date to October 10, Wednesday, the day Jessica's body was found.

The weather that day looked to be Sunny but party cloudy. By Friday, they had some rain.

 

[izzyblizzy]

Yes! I even thought about this but my mind played a trick on me and instead of checking went with the date given.

This is one fact we don't need to confuse - we have so few facts! Good job.

I was asking about the dates she went missing, but I put in the 5th for the date when I switched towns and did it on my own. Again, thanks for the site.

ETA: I was trying to figure out visibility on that Friday/Sat she went missing, but it just keeps kicking back to Broomfield.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes. I can't cite the article but they've said they are looking for phone numbers that pop up on all three sites.

I remember reading that LE was going to use cell ping technology to try to gather information to try to pinpoint a suspect. I've wondered if they had any hits or leads based on that. Are you thinking of an older article or did you read new information?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I was asking about the dates she went missing, but I put in the 5th for the date when I switched towns and did it on my own. Again, thanks for the site.

ETA: I was trying to figure out visibility on that Friday/Sat she went missing, but it just keeps kicking back to Broomfield.

Every little town doesn't provide the statistics. Sometimes as good as it gets is the info given by the nearest measuring station (if that's what it's called).

 

[tlcya]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...earch-for-jessica-ridgeway-kidnapping-suspect

MSM news discussing the cell phone tower usage in the investigation for those still needing the link.

 

[Rougelatete]

I found this interesting article about using "awareness space" to help narrow down a list of possible perpetrators. I thought it might be useful to those of you working so diligently on this case. Kudos to everyone who has put in so much time and effort already! Here is a clip from the article:

At this point, perhaps the best path to solving this particular murder rests with the ability of law enforcement’s geographic profilers to identify the killer’s awareness space, which is defined as that geographic area that individuals have become familiar with over their lifetime. It is composed of those places that have been incorporated into a person’s memory by repeated exposure.

A person’s, including a criminal’s, awareness space is centered around those locations that are most important to them, starting with their home and including other locations such as work, a friend’s house, the primary stores where they shop, favorite walking paths, etc. It is also composed of the transportation corridors used to connect those locations to one another.

Defining the perpetrator’s awareness space is critical to solving Jessica’s case, because in the vast majority of child abduction murders, as well as other crimes, researchers have found that the perpetrator lives within his awareness space, commits his crimes close to home and within that awareness space, and disposes of his victims and other evidence at the outer edges of the awareness space, generally along the space’s transportation corridors.

This is because when it comes to operating in our comfort zones, criminals, even sociopaths who murder children, have been found to be just like the rest of us. We tend to operate within the areas that we know best.

In the case of Jessica Ridgeway, we can start to see at least a portion of her killer’s awareness space depicted on the maps, based on where Jessica was abducted, where her backpack was found and where her body was ultimately dumped. The maps are located at http://goo.gl/maps/Tf2tR (large map) and http://goo.gl/maps/fyPyI (inset map).

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

 

[carbuff]

So are people speculating the perp is one of the garbage collectors?

Absolutely not. We're looking at the markers LE left on the road, and the accident reconstruction team working the next morning, to see if we can figure out where the perp's car was parked, turned around, etc.

There's not the slightest hint that the garbage collectors were anything but the finders. Poor guys. I hope WM is providing good support for them.

 

[izzyblizzy]

Every little town doesn't provide the statistics. Sometimes as good as it gets is the info given by the nearest measuring station (if that's what it's called).

Yeah, I understand. It is just that there can be a vast difference in weather between here and Broomfield since I am about 2,500 feet higher So we can be in a cloud and Broomfield wouldn't. We could have heavy snow, etc. I tried to do other foothill towns around our elevation in near area, but they kept reverting to Broomfield!

But it is probably around the same type of visibility as Arvada.

 

[foxbluff]

Yes. I can't cite the article but they've said they are looking for phone numbers that pop up on all three sites.

Wonder if LE is also looking at (or has looked at) phone numbers which popped up on time/site of attack on 22 yr. old jogger which they referenced today?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just drizzly if I remember correctly.

o/t speaking of precipitation, it's raining where I am and my mind feels fuzzy. Does anybody else have that happen where the weather (barometric pressure) messes with you physically? I can't think straight!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Initial processing of a homicide case often does take hours before the victim is removed. On a case like this, you want your top investigators on site. Everything will be done slowly and carefully. The evidence is likely to be subtile and may be your best chance of catching a dangerous predator.

The scanner thread indicates a road, most likely Leyden Road was closed at 2:50 pm. From the initial call by the workers, it would have taken some time to get an officer on scene and then send others to close the road once that first officer had confirmed what the workers had found. I don't see how that would take more than 50 minutes, so the workers probably found her sometime after 2 pm.

The perimeter was secured around 3 pm, the body was removed at 9:30 pm. Six and a half hours before removing the body doesn't seem unreasonable.

Hi Footwarrior. Love your posts as they make me think...

I'm not an expert by no means but I can tell you positively as a fact that 6 hours can very well be a normal time frame for removing remains of this nature. I have grown up in a family with a paternal grandfather that was a chief of police before he died, maternal grandfather that was chief of fire & rescue, exfiance that is a sgt det, multiple cousins & friends that are le, & so on. I stated all of that to hopefully quash any theories or suspicions as to why it took so long bc honestly the cops are doing their jobs thoroughly. If the remains were bagged into evidence in say an hour or two, knowing they weren't intact & found outside, then I'd vehemently suggest le weren't doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. You see, since the "body" wasn't intact, that definitely shows murder. Depending on the cleanness of the cuts &/or severs, it shows how organized the killer is. Le would have to document each & every drop of blood, the fauna around the remains, soil that I suspect they took various samples of, plus the ground would be extra hard due to the colder weather at the time. If the skin or bones were laying on the ground, they could have been stuck to the ground due to the coldness. Even if the remains were in a black garbage bag as previously stated, the bag & seepage could have stuck to the ground. Special forensic professionals would have had to dig underneath where the remains were to gather everything in one piece as much as they could. Based on the bright orange markers in the grass as well as the road, I suspect not only blood was scattered. If she was gutted & beheaded, as well as dismembered, investigators would have had to search that entire area so as to contain & obtain each & every piece of evidence they could right then & there to preserve it's integrity. If it was just a torso, I'd wager they put it in a cold kept container. Actually, I'd bet all body parts were stored that way, unless they had a refrigerated evidence truck/van. The task they faced was withoutadoubt huge, not seen before by most investigators there, and probably took them some time to gather the strength within them. When they found the remains it was obvious the person wasn't alive, therefore they had to call in all professionals needed. I'm sure it took a little bit of time to block off the roads, plus to get the fire truck there with their spotlight. Then the forensic me with the coroner. They'd need the chief of police there for something of this magnitude. The FBI was already involved so they'd have been involved. Then the evidence collection, etc. They wouldn't haul just part of a person away if they thought other parts would be found there as well, so they'd collect everything first, then haul it away to the lab. It's tedious & very time consuming. It may seem mundane but most of the time a good conviction only comes after thorough & pure evidence collecting.

Not talking down, please don't think that... I'm only trying to shed light on why it takes the time that it does.

Side note: If it were a possible suicide, or even if the body were completely together with no signs of foul play, then investigators could have been in & out in just a few hours. The fact it took so long to get Jessica's remains to the lab/me tells me it wasn't in very good shape at all.

 

[carbuff]

This is to help clarify what all I'm looking at when I'm talking about the WM truck, the orange markers and my very scientific sticky note measurements --

The crappy black drawn arrows by the truck point to the tires. Look closely. There are three orange markers placed by LE beside each tire.

Now, there is a black circle on the middle of the road with arrows pointing to more orange markers. These orange markers are what I measured against the WM truck tire markers.
The marks on the road match the pattern (2 sets of markers close together towards the top, and two lone markers near the bottom). The distance between the marks matches the pattern and distance of the wheels on the WM truck. Also, if you measure the width of the truck, it matchs the distance in width across from one set of orange markers to the other.

The circle on the upper right indicates (for those wondering) where to see the box that a circle of LE is standing around.

The circle on the left appears (to me) to be an orange indicator of some sort by LE either IN the tree, or on the ground by it.

EDIT to ADD:
The firetruck was too long to fit within the orange markers I circled up there... so that couldn't be it.

Hope that helps clarify....

SECOND EDIT:
Maybe I'm not so bright - another poster suggested this might be the firetruck with the light, and I thought not initially b/c I thought that was parked flush to the side of road, but have now seen a photo (you can see it if you keep reading - I posted it down thread).... that shows firetruck was indeed parked over the center line, so maybe I'm wrong, and those orange markers were to denote where the firetruck was. [ Hangs head, closes door, and tiptoes away]

I think your first interpretation is right. I think that they probably processed whatever needed to be done with the garbage truck the way it was, then marked it and the road, then moved the garbage truck to the pullout so they had room for the equipment to process the rest of the scene.

 

[absentia]

o/t speaking of precipitation, it's raining where I am and my mind feels fuzzy. Does anybody else have that happen where the weather (barometric pressure) messes with you physically? I can't think straight!

I lived in Seattle for 11 years so I felt like that all the time. when it was sunny I felt amazing and always realized how much worse the low pressure makes me feel.

 

[LACOPTER]

I'm new to this board and haven't posted lately, but have been reading the posts. I have been looking at the area on Google Earth. There is a little slide on the bottom that shows a time lapse of most of the maps. I think it starts about 1999 and ends around 2011. It is interesting because one can view how areas and neighborhoods have changed, and what vehicles were in different locations at different times. The only problem is that Google Earth says image date 2012, but when you go to street level, an earlier date shows up.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yeah, I understand. It is just that there can be a vast difference in weather between here and Broomfield since I am about 2,500 feet higher So we can be in a cloud and Broomfield wouldn't. We could have heavy snow, etc. I tried to do other foothill towns around our elevation in near area, but they kept reverting to Broomfield!

But it is probably around the same type of visibility as Arvada.

So not too useful. I recall being places where it's raining on my side of the street and not raining across the street!

How does one find specific weather conditions then? Maybe archives of the local paper? Even then, those are usually predictions. :waitasec:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I'm new to this board and haven't posted lately, but have been reading the posts. I have been looking at the area on Google Earth. There is a little slide on the bottom that shows a time lapse of most of the maps. I think it starts about 1999 and ends around 2011. It is interesting because one can view how areas and neighborhoods have changed, and what vehicles were in different locations at different times. The only problem is that Google Earth says image date 2012, but when you go to street level, an earlier date shows up.

Hi lacopter & welcome to WS. I read your previous 2 posts & thought they were interesting. Actually, I'd like to research the significance of the names & compare the linguistics related to that with other missing & then found deceased persons. I'd like to see if the other people were accidentally found or if the deceased people were placed in such a way so as to be seen. Then compare. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[DylansMom34]

So ... on Westminster PD's facebook page, they have posted some pictures of some dark colored crosses with etchings. Any idea what those are?

It looks like the pictures of the cross are a possible clue to the suspect.

Westminster Police Department

For Immediate Release
Direct: (303) 658-4427 Dispatch: (303) 658-4360
Prepared by: Investigator Trevor Materasso
Case Number: 2012-16605
Subject: Jessica Ridgeway - Police Release Photograph of Cross

Date – October 19, 2012

A cross recovered during the Jessica Ridgeway investigation could become a pivotal piece of evidence that helps authorities identify and locate Jessica’s killer. In an ongoing attempt to identify the predator responsible for the abduction and murder of Jessica Ridgeway, police are asking the public to look at several pictures to see if these will help lead police to the killer.

Police recovered a wooden cross that is approximately 1 ½ inches tall by 1 inch wide. The cross has a hole drilled through the upper part and appears that it can be or was worn on a necklace. On one side of the cross are three vertical bars etched onto the shorter horizontal section and a zig-zag pattern is carved onto the opposite side. The cross appears to be a solid piece of wood and the upper post portion is offset from the lower post below the short horizontal section.

Authorities are looking for someone who may carry or wear this type of cross, may have recently purchased one of these, or is known to have some association with one. Police are also looking for a local business that may sell these specific crosses. Police believe there may be a connection between the Jessica Ridgeway murder and the attempted abduction at Ketner Lake, and urge the public to specifically look for someone with a cross like this that matches the suspect’s description from Ketner Lake.

• Light skinned male
• 18-35 (or someone who’s appearance with a ball cap may look that age)
• Brown hair
• Medium build
• 5’06” to 5’08” (Height can vary above or below these approximations)

Police are asking the community to look through the pictures and call our tip line or send us an email with information that may identify the killer or where he may have got the cross from. Tip line: 303-658-4336 email: PDamberalert@cityofwestminster.us

Any questions regarding this press release or for an interview please contact Investigator Trevor Materasso at 303-658-4427 or through email at: tmateras@cityofwestminster.us

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Have to run bbl.

Welcome to Websleuths to all the new members.

Lurkers - quit lurking & join. These victims NEED all the help they can get!

:blowkiss:

 

[SmoothOperator]

I have also thought about the newly released case they want us to focus on (22 year old jogger at Ketner reservoir open space). What was he going to do once he knocked her out?

Carry her along the trail back to his vehicle? (not sure how close she was to the entrance when the attempt took place). Drag her off the trail and sexually assault her?

BTW from the pics they show there are a lot of houses that basically back up to that open space and although there are some trees, it is not exactly wooded or remote in any sense of the word. I am still puzzled as to what his plan was if he had successfully knocked her out. It is just odd.

Or maybe his house backs up and he was planning on carrying her there? But he sounds very slight.

Just brainstorming like you.

Above BBM.. This latest development in the last 24hrs brought to our attention by LE regarding the attempted abduction in the recent past at Ketner Reservoir of a 22yo jogger..it immediately triggered in my mind John Gardner and his last victim that he was to take from this life, Chelsea King.. The similarities imo are great except for the attempted use of chemical inhalants in the Ketner attempt.but its my strong personl opinion that had this perp succeeded in overpowering and subduing the 22yo jogger that the similarities would have been even greater between the two abductions..

John Gardner did exactly what I above bolded that was posed as a question as to what possibly were the perpetrators intentions should he have succeeded in subduing his victim... John Gardner drug Chelsea King off into an area away from the trail of which she was running .. He completed the entire criminal acts from start to finish right there within a very popular running haven for locals.. He attacked, overpowered, subdued and from there took her only deeper into a wooded area, but remained in the actual park.. There in the wooded area John Gardner sexually assaulted and murdered Chelsea after which he also disposed of or rather hid her remains there in the exact same area.. Therefor by the time John Gardner left the premesis of what was a popular running trail, he had abducted, sexually assaulted, murdered, and disposed of her body ALL RIGHT THERE WITHIN MERE FEET OF WHERE CHELSEA KING WAS RUNNING..

I have a feeling whether planned/intentional or not on this particular perpatrators part, I strongly believe that the attempted abduction at Ketner very very likely would have been similar and quite likely even similar to the point of ending tragically just as Chelsea's did with her being sexually assaulted and murdered right there in an area to which she was doing something she very much loved and enjoyed.. Gardner was/is a MONSTER IN EVERY SINGLE SENSE OF THE WORD MONSTER!!

John Gardner NEVER should have been a free man at that time when he murdered Chelsea King.. That opportunity should NEVER EVER have been allowed him..but sadly, tragically the system failed..the system failed us all, and the system especially failed Chelsea King that day when she brutally lost her beautiful life to this sub human, ferocious MONSTER, John Gardener!!

**ETA- wanted to quickly add to any who may not be familiar with Gardner or Chelsea King... It is John Gardner who also ABDUCTED, SEXUALLY ASSAULTED, AND MURDERED beautiful, young Amber DuBois on Valentines Day just as she walked onto her school campus..literally mere feet from the safety of the entrance of her school, Amber vanished into thin air...for years to come no one knew where, who, or how Amber had quite literally vanished into thin air...except for momma, Carrie...she knew it was Gardner..she knew it and she told LE she knew it was him...yet still nothing...Carrie and her family were so convinced it was Gardner and since LE did nothing about it, this family took it upon themselves to follow and trail this monster... This mother knew it was he who took her beautiful daughter...

Tragically and sadly it would take Chelsea King having to pay with her precious life that would finally bring Gardner down... How very very tragic and WRONG!!...AGAIN GARDNER SHOULD HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN A FREE MAN ALLOWING HIM THAT OPPORTUNITY TO BRUTALLY TAKE CHLESEA'S LIFE JUST AS HE DID AMBER'S..

 

[izzyblizzy]

So not too useful. I recall being places where it's raining on my side of the street and not raining across the street!

How does one find specific weather conditions then? Maybe archives of the local paper? Even then, those are usually predictions. :waitasec:

I have no idea. When planning a trip I know I look up the average temps and all that. But I have no idea how to go back and find the exact weather conditions.

I know what they were here because I posted a facebook post on October 5th that says "How does weather in Colorado go from 82 degrees a few days ago to first snow!" (and snapped a few pics) And was lamenting that hopefully it is not so bad in Southern Colorado because I was taking my husband on a surprise birthday trip to Mt. Princeton hot springs.