CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #15

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Also in my above most recent post re: profile of the perp(post #290) of special interest to some may be the snipped quote and link which very much explains exactly what it is that classifies the ORGANIZED offender.. I know some have continued to be of the opinion that there is nothing indicative of the offender being ORGANIZED..

This article and link clears up the common miconception that seems to exist about exactly what traits, actions, or behaviors are indicative of an ORGANIZED OFFENDER..

For a quick example the two off the top of my head that are classic indicators of an ORGANIZED OFFENDER are:
1) when the offender and victim are strangers to one another
2) when the offender takes steps to hinder the victims identification

Those are two quick examples that determine which classification the offender would be labeled..

...much much more at the last link in the bottom of my post #290..
 
I don't I'm just not understanding the assumption of why it was at seperate times.

While we are at it. Could a stranger be considered a neighbor that she didn't know? That way a vehicle wouldn't have been necessary to start with.



I really think if you will start at the first thread here on Jessica and read through the info, you will see all that has been considered and there are no concrete answers yet. I promise those threads have a wealth of questions and ponderings just like you're answering.
 
A link would be great.

It is almost certain that this perp has a vehicle.

It is almost certain that this perp has either stalked Jessica or her neighbourhood before.

The fact that she was taken in such a tiny time-frame of less than 10 minutes implies that he was waiting for her to come along, and knew she would be alone for that short distance.

The only way I know to find this sort of information out is to, basically, stalk.

He has been waiting around on her route to school, for the right moment to grab...maybe Jessica, maybe any random child that used that particular route.

He has been lurking there before. Someone must've noticed something.

Likewise, he has a connection to where the backpack was dumped.

Is this somehow in relation to the child murder that occured in that location? Common sense would say it is...another dead child.

This earlier murder means something to this perp. I would hazard a guess to say he was a teenager at the time this first death occurred, or was somehow connected to it in another way.

Maybe he hates the local LE and this is his way of taunting them.

Of course my opinion only based on what we know which is not much.

:cow:


I have a link from the Arvada Police Department spokesperson, as well as the call sent out on October 4th, but it wasn't in Jessica's immediate street/neighborhood/school in Westminster.
 
Sorry for the questions, this is my way of thinking out loud and maybe having others also think out loud with me. There is really not much that we can do here anyway.
 
SOmeone was asking about suspicious vehicles; there were reports from the day before Jessica was abducted that a white van followed some kids after school. This report is from 10/8. Interesting, I didn't remember that the girls thought they saw two people in the van. Lawrence Elem is about 8 miles from Witt Elem, and also about 8 miles from Pattridge Park, so even though it's south of Witt, it's in that same general vicinity.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...a-thursday-while-they-walked-home-from-school

ARVADA, Colo. - Although police have said they don't believe a person is abducting children at random, they are aware of a case in which a white van approached children in Arvada one day before a girl vanished in Westminster.

Malachi Martinez said a white van tried to get the attention of his children as they walked home from Lawrence Elementary on Thursday. Arvada Police confirmed the incident was reported.

"It felt like we were getting followed by the car," said Raina Camacho, a sixth-grader at Lawrence.

"We started running and the car turned around the other street and parked in front of us," said Camacho's sister, Sierra, a fifth-grader. "We went to the fire department, but we saw the fire truck leaving. So we ran back to school. We told the principal what happened and she called the cops."

Within two hours, the principal of Lawrence made a recorded phone call to parents:

"This is Beth Morganfield principal of Lawrence Elementary. I wanted to make you aware of a situation that happened after school today. Four girls were walking north on Zephyr. A white van was parked on the side of the road. The girls walked on and the van followed them. The girls became nervous and returned to school."

"We called the police who are now investigating. The girls believe there were two people in the van but could not give a description. The description of the van does not match any other suspicious vehicle report. The occupants of the van did not make contact with the girls. The police wanted to remind parents to speak to their children about safety and if their children have any concerns about suspicious vehicles or persons to let their parents or the school know. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me tomorrow at school."

"I was happy that she got it out there right away to everybody else," said Christina Comacho, Raina and Sierra's mom. "It was just scary because the very next day is when the other little girl came up missing. Since that happened with Jessica (Ridgeway) the next day, I think it should have been made public."

Jessica Ridgeway, 10, vanished Friday morning after leaving her home at 10768 Moore St. in Westminster to meet friends at a park and then continue to school. An amber alert was issued Saturday.

Lawrence Elementary is about eight miles from Jessica's home.

Arvada police said they never put out an alert about the white van because it's still under investigation.

In September, two other child enticement attempts were reported by Arvada police. In those cases, the kids reported seeing a blue four-door sedan. 7NEWS has learned a third September report of a suspicious, slow-driving vehicle was never shared with the public because after two days of investigating it was found to be a misunderstanding.

"(A man's) dog had gotten out of the yard and he was driving around looking for his dog," said Arvada Police Department spokeswoman Jill McGranahan.

Arvada police have been in contact with Westminster police since before Ridgeway's disappearance. McGranahan explained that going public with unverified information about the Lawrence Elementary report could hinder the tips being investigated in Westminster.

"If a white van is not involved in that disappearance, we don't want people looking for that. We want people to stay focused on what we do know."

7NEWS confirmed with Westminster investigators that the report of a suspicious white van from Arvada is not the focus of the Ridgeway disappearance, but it has not been ruled out either.

Currently, police have no suspects or persons of interest in her disappearance. Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said.

Police have also ruled out the involvement of a black van in Jessica's disappearance.

Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said
.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:
 
I have to say that I am from NY so a garbage bag laying on the side of the road wouldnt be looked at for a long time. Like maybe months till the town came around to do clean-up.

Do we know how often the garbage guys picked up garbage at that site? How likely is it that the public would know this? I would love to know when was the last time that area had been cleaned?
 
Essentially, I'm asking why not dump the body the same time you dump the bag? And why do we think it was at seperate times?

I think he dumped the body and then the back pack on the same night and personally believe he had another bag with him and LE has not found that one yet!
All JMO
 
Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said
.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:

Wasn't that from an early statement. I thought they had changed it later to saying that there was a predator out there who would do it again.
 
Do we know how often the garbage guys picked up garbage at that site? How likely is it that the public would know this? I would love to know when was the last time that area had been cleaned?

Interesting question. If it's been brought up before I missed it. Maybe footwarrior knows, or at least knows if such (city? County?) services even operate on weekends.
 
Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said
.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:

Once again, thanks for posting this, I asked this before and got accused of all kinds of things. Sometimes we have to ask questions that might not seem appropriate at the time but really are.

This is one reason why I asked who the last person to see her was and did they watch her walk out of the house. I personally do not think she walked anywhere, I think she was taken almost on her front lawn. She probably knew this person and thats why no screams for help. It was cold out and "let me drive you to the park" type of situation.
 
Wasn't that from an early statement. I thought they had changed it later to saying that there was a predator out there who would do it again.

I don't know, it wasn't me that posted it.

Jessica being "non random" does not mean there is no "predator".

A predator is a predator, whether the victim is random or not.

My opinion only of course.

:cow:
 
Wasn't that from an early statement. I thought they had changed it later to saying that there was a predator out there who would do it again.

Yes, that is my recollection as well. THis was very early on ...
 
Discussion topic:

For past successful stranger abductions in broad daylight with no witnesses - how did the perp do it? Let's discuss similar cases to this one.

A lot of us are wondering how people could not have noticed, but it's happened before. Perps, and survivors, have given details.

I saw a demo that made it perfectly clear to me how it can happen.

The police department in the town I used to live in did a demo to show how fast someone could be overcome and disappear. The volunteer knew in general terms what the officer playing the bad guy would do and was supposed to react in her usual way.

The police officer pulled up alongside the volunteer, rolled down his window and asked her if she knew where a certain street was. She tried to explain but it involved a couple turns and the officer pretended he just wasn't getting it. He pulled out a printed street map and held it out to her, asking her to show him on the map.

She approached, reached out to take the map and the officer grabbed her wrist and coat sleeve, hauled her towards his door and then dragged her into his car through the window and stuffed her into the front passenger side footwell.

The whole thing took less than 30 seconds from when he pulled up to when he pulled away.

The volunteer said that she was trying not to get so close he could grab any part of her and she had no idea he could reach her wrist from the car.

I can't emphasise enough how quickly this all happened. It was over so fast, if I hadn't known what was going to happen, I probably would have missed it. The longest part of the whole thing was him asking for directions. From the point where he grabbed her to when he drove off was just seconds. Literally just seconds.

Another way is the way the guy in Wyoming abducted that girl last week. He pulled up to 3 girls and said something about his puppy. One girl went over towards his vehicle and her friends thought she'd happily hopped into the vehicle on her own volition.

It wasn't until she was found (alive) that it was discovered that as she drew near the vehicle, he showed her a gun and told her to get into the car or else.
 
Geez, go out to play golf with spouse and friends and come back to...well, what appears to be a mess. Is there any new news, or is it just a snarkfest?
 
Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said
.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:

I think it was someone she knew and was close to ! jmo
 
Once again, thanks for posting this, I asked this before and got accused of all kinds of things. Sometimes we have to ask questions that might not seem appropriate at the time but really are.

This is one reason why I asked who the last person to see her was and did they watch her walk out of the house. I personally do not think she walked anywhere, I think she was taken almost on her front lawn. She probably knew this person and thats why no screams for help. It was cold out and "let me drive you to the park" type of situation.

No screams could simply be, he got her by surprise.

This would fit with "non-random" too...he was waiting for her and pounced.

Why Jessica????

:banghead:
 
I saw a demo that made it perfectly clear to me how it can happen.

The police department in the town I used to live in did a demo to show how fast someone could be overcome and disappear. The volunteer knew in general terms what the officer playing the bad guy would do and was supposed to react in her usual way.

The police officer pulled up alongside the volunteer, rolled down his window and asked her if she knew where a certain street was. She tried to explain but it involved a couple turns and the officer pretended he just wasn't getting it. He pulled out a printed street map and held it out to her, asking her to show him on the map.

She approached, reached out to take the map and the officer grabbed her wrist and coat sleeve, hauled her towards his door and then dragged her into his car through the window and stuffed her into the front passenger side footwell.

The whole thing took less than 30 seconds from when he pulled up to when he pulled away.

The volunteer said that she was trying not to get so close he could grab any part of her and she had no idea he could reach her wrist from the car.

I can't emphasise enough how quickly this all happened. It was over so fast, if I hadn't known what was going to happen, I probably would have missed it. The longest part of the whole thing was him asking for directions. From the point where he grabbed her to when he drove off was just seconds. Literally just seconds.

Another way is the way the guy in Wyoming abducted that girl last week. He pulled up to 3 girls and said something about his puppy. One girl went over towards his vehicle and her friends thought she'd happily hopped into the vehicle on her own volition.

It wasn't until she was found (alive) that it was discovered that as she drew near the vehicle, he showed her a gun and told her to get into the car or else.

I've seen a similar demo of abducting a child walking along a street. The cop's car pulled up beside her and grabbed her -- and barely even slowed down. Probably still going 15mph in a 25mph zone.
 
Hmm. I've been using Tapatalk / iPad and just noticed that for some reason it edits many of the useful links out of the top post of each successive thread. If you're on Tapatalk ONLY, might want to check the forums with a normal browser. It means I've been missing links like this one (timeline/media) because they don't show up in post #1 like they should. Grrr.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187312"]Jessica Ridgeway, *no discussion*: Timeline and Media thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I agree that it's not random. IMO this person knows Jessica's mom.
Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said
.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:
 
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