CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #16

[katydid23]

No offense but I find the drug cartel/gang-related theory laughable. Gangs are profit motivated. Do they abduct, murder and dismember? Yes, but they don't abduct murder and dismember random 10 year old girls who are walking to school.

I also don't understand why so many here are so invested in thinking this guy is hispanic, especially when he has been described from the beginning as WHITE. It's actually starting to get offensive.

Just because someone might be a gang member, it does not mean he couldn't also be a sick twisted serial killer.

I know quite a bit about violent gangs. I used to work in South Central and there were a dozen violent local gangs working the area. Saying someone is a 'gang member' is like saying someone is a biker or a Lutheran or a red-head. It does not mean you are 'that' and only that. You can be a member of the V-13s, and wear those black dickie shorts, white t-shirts and tall white socks, and sell crack on your stoop. AND STILL, you might personally take a liking to raping and killing as a hobby.

So I don't think it is laughable at all. When I watched the video I thought the guy was dressed exactly like the bangers I have seen for decades. Dickies and white elastic socks are their preferred uniform.

 

[Wendy101]

I wonder if the jogging victim and Jessicas mom frequently visit the same place.. Maybe a store, where mom took Jessica??
maybe it is a male who works in a store??

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's interesting to me that we hear Denver metro is in a panic, that everyone is watching their kids more, yet we still hear about unsupervised kids almost being abducted every day. (And I doubt those are the only kids who are outside by themselves).

Some parents don't have much choice.

Ironically, the less money one makes, the less flexibility the job usually has. I'd think that in compensation for not good compensation things like flex time would be offered but typically not.

I'm sure there are parents in the Denver area who just don't have a choice and agonise every day over it.

 

[Confusion]

It's fine to explore all possible avenues...I don't knock that. But the idea of this being a gang related thing has been brought up repeatedly, and from day one I have seen people saying they think this was done by "a mexican" based on nothing more than their opinion that Colorado has a "problem" with Mexicans/illegal immigrants. We have spent a great deal of time discussing the possibility that this is someone of hispanic descent, to the point where it is now getting erroneously reported as an unequivocal fact in MSM. That's exactly the kind of thing that could end up working AGAINST finding Jessica's killer. Imagine if someone has suspicions about someone, but they don't make that call because the rumor mill is telling them this was done by a Mexican.

I'm sure that you, along with most people here, don't have any malicious intent. It's a small number of people who are just plain stereotyping, and I find it hugely distracting.

Not to mention the fact that being Hispanic doesn't mean you have to be from Mexico.

 

[johncharles360]

Quite true, Cartel theory is kinda out there, just stating the similiar coincidences.

My minds all over the place. I just see common themes at play. Just out of the box thinking.

Another idea im having is the IF there are/were 2 attackers in the grand scheme of things... They seem to be young. What kind of young sickos work together?

Heres a case of to young teenagers who murdered multiple people...

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs"]Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Being that He or They are seeming to fail at certain times, the heights, leads me wonder if they are young and not as powerful as a full grown man or men?

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

Just because someone might be a gang member, it does not mean he couldn't also be a sick twisted serial killer.

I know quite a bit about violent gangs. I used to work in South Central and there were a dozen violent local gangs working the area. Saying someone is a 'gang member' is like saying someone is a biker or a Lutheran or a red-head. It does not mean you are 'that' and only that. You can be a member of the V-13s, and wear those black dickie shorts, white t-shirts and tall white socks, and sell crack on your stoop. AND STILL, you might personally take a liking to raping and killing as a hobby.

So I don't think it is laughable at all. When I watched the video I thought the guy was dressed exactly like the bangers I have seen for decades. Dickies and white elastic socks are their preferred uniform.

I don't find THAT theory laughable* at all...just the theory that JR's murder was gang related, or had anything to do with human trafficking, drug running, etc. It just isn't plausible IMO. A lone wolf, or killer couple, who happen to have gang ties, sure, that is entirely possible.

As for the two guys in the video-I agree that they fit the profile, I'm just not convinced they are related to this case. LE has said they believe that to be an isolated incident, unrelated to any other case (including JR's) If anything, I think it was a copy-cat crime

*Laughable was perhaps the wrong choice of words. I am not "laughing" at anyone here (and nothing about this is funny)

And with that, I am off to bed!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Honestly, I don't understand how any woman can go jogging alone? I see them all the time, bouncing down a country road, a busy street, or along a riverwalk, wearing skimpy and/or tight-fitting clothes, with headphones on, and I cannot understand how they have the nerve. Women have even told me about having guys expose themselves to them while they were running in some park or remote area. Even if someone doesn't abduct you right there, anyone with a bad idea in mind is likely to notice you.

JMO

As someone who used to be one of those women (walking instead of jogging, though), my answer is that I got tired of living my life by fear.

Nothing ever happened to me when alone. Most of the time, the vast majority of the time, nothing bad ever does happen.

Like most other women, the real dangers in my life were from someone in a position of trust and authority over me when I was a child and someone I chose to marry when I was older.

Getting out of my home was safer!

 

[NC Analyzer]

Some parents don't have much choice.

Ironically, the less money one makes, the less flexibility the job usually has. I'd think that in compensation for not good compensation things like flex time would be offered but typically not.

I'm sure there are parents in the Denver area who just don't have a choice and agonise every day over it.

Very, very true, and unfortunately, although predators offend in any segment of the population at will, it is much easier to target the lower socio-economic areas because that is where you will find a higher prevalence of unsupervised children. Not to stereotype, but it is difficult to abduct a child who is being chaperoned around by the nanny...or even the stay at home mom (bless them!)
Not sure this applies to this perp, just in general.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's crazy! I'm just wondering how many of them are not actual abduction attempts, but misunderstandings. Like the kid who was stalking his ex-girlfriend? Every one in the area is on edge right now, so innocent situations can be interpreted as sinister. Not that the kid stalking his ex is innocent, but he wasn't trying to abduct the child. KWIM?

And we don't even know if he was actually stalking his ex-girlfriend. Approaching someone is not the same as stalking.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Some parents don't have much choice.

Ironically, the less money one makes, the less flexibility the job usually has. I'd think that in compensation for not good compensation things like flex time would be offered but typically not.

I'm sure there are parents in the Denver area who just don't have a choice and agonise every day over it.

You have a choice about whether your child plays outside. Or whether they walk to a friend's house alone.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I can remember when I was maybe 5 or 6 my dad telling my mom while we drove through, I think, was Tipp City, OH, that they had found a woman with no arms in the canal we drove by. That always bothered me & still does.

Then there was Brenda Vicari & Lemeul Prion her accused and convicted murderer (1997?) with the murder in 1992 in Tucson, AZ. Her arms were found in a dumpster but no other body parts have been recovered.He walks free, RSO from another crime but his conviction for Brenda's murder was overturned in 2003? due to another potential dude the prosecutors never brought up at trial.

Here's a link for anyone that wants to read about why some turn out the way they do. (Many others surely don't thank goodness for their strength.)

Lemuel Prion, lives in Vermal, UT. I mapped his address per DOC and looked at a town along the way from Vermal to Westminster and of course this Aurora case came up on the route there. Haven't checked any farther but will after I post this. There's a lot more about Lemuel and about 3 years ago when I checked I found a link to where he was able to post his profile online from prison.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/coldcases/2011/06/05/womans-dismembered-body/2284/2/

None of this is anything but what I run across when I'm trying to figure out why these people do such sick things. It will be something that bothers me until I'm old, I swear.

http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=3551

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

Quite true, Cartel theory is kinda out there, just stating the similiar coincidences.

My minds all over the place. I just see common themes at play. Just out of the box thinking.

Another idea im having is the IF there are/were 2 attackers in the grand scheme of things... They seem to be young. What kind of young sickos work together?

Heres a case of to young teenagers who murdered multiple people...

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Being that He or They are seeming to fail at certain times, the heights, leads me wonder if they are young and not as powerful as a full grown man or men?

Oh god...I saw the video of one of their murders. It was sent to me as a joke and I had no idea what I was actually watching until...nevermind. It was just awful. It was called "2 guys, 1 hammer" and apparently it went "viral". uke:

FWIW, I have always gotten a very "young" vibe about this perp...late teens/early 20's. Don't know why, I just do.

 

[HeinekenMan]

I think that
1) any newspaper that reports things that they have been told not to print because it will affect an investigation should be charged. That is different than say, not reporting something because it could embarass someone or ruin a career.
2) If the PD can figure out who the leak is they should be fired! Immediately! Apparently their "moment in the sun" of giving insider info is more important than justice or the investigation. That type of person has no business being in law enforcement. (best comparison I can think of is a stock trader. They have freedom of speech, as do we all, but they will be fired and prosecuted if they give insider information about stocks to others).
3)We as a country should NOT accept this behavior from the media. Not only is it destructive and unethical, (IMO) it will lead us to a place where the media will print whatever it can (true or not) just to beat the competition. Every media outlet will then be at the level of the "rag mags" that are not allowed to be quoted her.
All JMO of course.

I know something about media ethics. Would it be ethical to withhold information from the public if you thought that someone might die because of what you were hiding?

Let me give you a scenario. Let's say the police think a killer may work at a Chuckie Cheese. You are a reporter. You are told not to say anything because it might harm the investigation. But you also fear that another child might be killed by this person.

My point is not to argue with you. It's to enlighten about the different aspects of what should go into a decision regarding whether to publish information. The media has to weigh the different options and decide what is best. In the example that I used, the best thing might be to let people know so that nobody else is killed.

Each situation is unique. In some cases, a newspaper may fail to use sound ethics. But we should not assume that. Now, keep in mind that I just popped on here and don't know the details. So it might very well be that there was no good reason for the media to disclose details.

 

[NC Analyzer]

You have a choice about whether your child plays outside. Or whether they walk to a friend's house alone.

Unfortunately, that is not always true. Some people really don't have a choice.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Unfortunately, that is not always true. Some people really don't have a choice.

How would you not have a choice in either scenario? Your child has to play outside? Why can't they can't play inside? Also, we are talking about suburbs here, every house has a car. So why would your child have to walk by themselves to a friend's house? If no parent can give a ride to the other child's house, then no play-date/hanging out. (You: general you)

 

[Starling]

Tying to somewhat catch up and I'm not quite sure what is or isn't evidence at this point. Focussing on the cross, they had to believe it is linked for them to release it. I'm thinking those three marks on the cross are on her body also - like a calling card.

Initially, I looked to see if I could tell what type of instrument was used in making the notches, but typically a cross makes me think of Jesus, whose arms were stretched out. I just got the strangest feeling that those marks are on either her front or backside at chest level.

 

[shefner]

How soon will they make an arrest? Predictions? Are they close?

Well, I hate to be painted into a corner....but there are 4 corners so I will attempt my first guess.

I think they are incredibly close. I think there will be an arrest within the week...maybe the weekend.

I have to say kudos to LE in this case and to the FBI. They are using the social media to their advantage and keeping us informed more than usual. I think that has helped this case tremendously. You can literally feel the energy in a hot case that is flowing toward a conclusion.

Compare this case to the abduction of Holly Bobo...from Tennessee. I love the state and enjoy visiting but every time I'm there I pray I don't disappear. If you get gone in TN and the TBI gets the case, you "ain't" getting found. And the public "ain't" gettin' any information. Sad indeed....
So...good job, Westminster PD! Proud of ya.....

 

[SapphireSteel]

A couple of things occur to me -

There is a possibility that Jessica was snatched to order, by very inept thieves working for a third party.

The Hispanic bit has nothing to do with drug cartels and everything to do with these two being cousins or brothers.

:dunno:

 

[johncharles360]

Tying to somewhat catch up and I'm not quite sure what is or isn't evidence at this point. Focussing on the cross, they had to believe it is linked for them to release it. I'm thinking those three marks on the cross are on her body also - like a calling card.

Initially, I looked to see if I could tell what type of instrument was used in making the notches, but typically a cross makes me think of Jesus, whose arms were stretched out. I just got the strangest feeling that those marks are on either her front or backside at chest level.

It would be shocking if the cross was found with or near the jogger back then, and then the second part of your scenerio. A sick forewarning of events

 

[Starling]

The jogger may have identified it as on him.