CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #16

[GrainneDhu]

This is maybe like the BTK killer. To him it was all about 'the kill.' And his victims were male and female, young and old.

He did leave semen on at least one victim, so there was at least one time when there was a sexual element to his crime.

 

[Confusion]

How would you not have a choice in either scenario? Your child has to play outside? Why can't they can't play inside? Also, we are talking about suburbs here, every house has a car. So why would your child have to walk by themselves to a friend's house? If no parent can give a ride to the other child's house, then no play-date/hanging out. (You: general you)

I think it would be extremely unhealthy to force a child to stay indoors all of the time, especially alone if none of the kids on the block are allowed to leave their houses either. I see no reason for making parents who have lost a child to a sadistic criminal to feel guilt on top of the loss. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Unfortunately, that is not always true. Some people really don't have a choice.

That is so true.

My kids always had to walk to and from school because I was always at work.

Not till they were older though, we had before/after school care at primary school.

I really didn't have a choice if I didn't want us to live in poverty and fear.

 

[absentia]

Just because someone might be a gang member, it does not mean he couldn't also be a sick twisted serial killer.

I know quite a bit about violent gangs. I used to work in South Central and there were a dozen violent local gangs working the area. Saying someone is a 'gang member' is like saying someone is a biker or a Lutheran or a red-head. It does not mean you are 'that' and only that. You can be a member of the V-13s, and wear those black dickie shorts, white t-shirts and tall white socks, and sell crack on your stoop. AND STILL, you might personally take a liking to raping and killing as a hobby.

So I don't think it is laughable at all. When I watched the video I thought the guy was dressed exactly like the bangers I have seen for decades. Dickies and white elastic socks are their preferred uniform.

thank you. and just b/c someone may have gang ties doesn't mean their own personal pathology is gang related.

 

[MidwestMama]

I know something about media ethics. Would it be ethical to withhold information from the public if you thought that someone might die because of what you were hiding?

Let me give you a scenario. Let's say the police think a killer may work at a Chuckie Cheese. You are a reporter. You are told not to say anything because it might harm the investigation. But you also fear that another child might be killed by this person.

My point is not to argue with you. It's to enlighten about the different aspects of what should go into a decision regarding whether to publish information. The media has to weigh the different options and decide what is best. In the example that I used, the best thing might be to let people know so that nobody else is killed.

Each situation is unique. In some cases, a newspaper may fail to use sound ethics. But we should not assume that. Now, keep in mind that I just popped on here and don't know the details. So it might very well be that there was no good reason for the media to disclose details.

I'm not argueing either. I find it interesting to state my opinion and get an understanding of how others feel.
I understand what you are saying, however, I respectfully disagree. It is the PD's job to keep the public safe, not the media's. A policeman's wife may know more about a case than the public but it isn't her job to keep the public safe and give that info out. Also, the same if a police officer confides in his therapist about a case. It certainly doesn't fall on the therapist's shoulders to tell the public. (The therapist only has to tell someone if the patient him/herself is a danger to someone else or themselves).
In your example, I am sure if the police suspected a murderer worked at CC that CC would probably be the SAFEST place to be as that CC and that worker in particular would be under scrutiny and surveillance. The media releasing the information would likely cause the suspect to either run or hide in some other way. The police are able to keep us safer if they know where the suspect is as they investigate.
Bottom line to me is that not only is it not the media's job to give out police information about a case, it is actually making the public at greater jeapordy by possibly tipping off the suspect and possibly messing up their prosecution in the future.
This may be exactly why I could never work for a company (media or otherwise) who would make this type of decision. To me there is a clear moral line here and for others there is not. Differences make the world go around, but they don't neccessarily make the best co-workers

 

[NC Analyzer]

How would you not have a choice in either scenario? Your child has to play outside? Why can't they can't play inside? Also, we are talking about suburbs here, every house has a car. So why would your child have to walk by themselves to a friend's house? If no parent can give a ride to the other child's house, then no play-date/hanging out. (You: general you)

Well, because we're discussing ALL children...in general. Not all people earn enough for daycare. Not everyone knows their neighbors. Not everyone wants to know their neighbors and wouldn't trust them anyway. Not everyone has family. Not everyone has access to adequate child care. And we CANNOT lock our children up in their homes 24/7 until they are 18. It isn't realistic. What you need to remember is these types of crimes ARE NOT the rule. There are VERY few stranger abductions, annually in this country. Most crimes perpetrated on children are by someone known to them...the babysitter, the boyfriend, the step-dad, neighbor, relative, family friend, etc. etc. so locking our children up in the house to prevent a potential abduction just isn't realistic. Of course in the Denver area right now, I completely agree that no child should be out on the street unsupervised...that said, we also cannot live our lives in fear every day. And we cannot allow this perp or any other perp to create that horrible presence in our life. Take precautions...now and in the future with your children, but live your life or "they" will take something from you that cannot be replaced. Your freedom.

 

[cluciano63]

At least until an arrest or arrests have been made in Jessica's case, and any other valid attempted abductions, I think alternate arrangements have to be made for kids who normally walk alone. There has to be a way to make short-term arrangements, if this is really the emergency that it sounds like from a distance. I mean, I don't think a day has passed without another report.

 

[Dr. Know?]

The LE may have staged a front at Chucky Cheez to catch the perp without any child in danger. Way to go tipping the perp off. I think I'm on the fence. My town doesn't report much nor aggresively track information on a missing child. Rarely, will you see the social media from the news on the weekends either unless it's "cheerful & snowbirdie"...over 1/2 million people, 900K in the county.

jmo

 

[NC Analyzer]

At least until an arrest or arrests have been made in Jessica's case, and any other valid attempted abductions, I think alternate arrangements have to be made for kids who normally walk alone. There has to be a way to make short-term arrangements, if this is really the emergency that it sounds like from a distance. I mean, I don't think a day has passed without another report.

Definitely agree.

ETA: I also believe that if anyone needs assistance with that in that area, there are probably resources for assistance. Contact your school, Dept. of Social Services, community bulletin boards, LE, just to name a few, if you need your child to have before or after school supervision. JMO

 

[absentia]

A couple of things occur to me -

There is a possibility that Jessica was snatched to order, by very inept thieves working for a third party.

The Hispanic bit has nothing to do with drug cartels and everything to do with these two being cousins or brothers.

:dunno:

ahhh. an aha moment! the 2 brothers are abducting for the third brother. the 3rd brother maybe works alone in his crimes and the brothers don't really know exactly what he does? that's why the descriptions of attempted abductions don't all add up - 2 or 3 different guys. maybe that's why they don't always succeed - they don't really want to do it but are compelled to do his bidding. maybe the main guy abducted Jessica himself if his brothers didn't succeed. the main brother has alcohol problems or drugs, therefore meaning mental illness/schizophrenia. the brothers help him b/c he has power over them, some blackmail on them, or, more probably, they know he will do something else that seems worse to them if they don't help him fulfill this fantasy. the cross will give him away to his familiars, and maybe it's a test to see if they turn him in. is it a religious bond, family bond, or maybe a gang bond?

 

[MidwestMama]

At least until an arrest or arrests have been made in Jessica's case, and any other valid attempted abductions, I think alternate arrangements have to be made for kids who normally walk alone. There has to be a way to make short-term arrangements, if this is really the emergency that it sounds like from a distance. I mean, I don't think a day has passed without another report.

I agree. Under the current circumstances I certainly would. Whether that would be a "walking school bus" like another poster described (a parent posted every few blocks so the children are never out of a parents eyesight on their walk home), find a schoolmates parents who will let your child walk/ride with them, etc. I totally understand that some parents are under dire work/money situations but there are some options that cost no money and will give both child and parent more peace of mind.

 

[watcher9]

In the last thread someone posted that it was unusual for someone to go from adult women to young girls and I wanted to comment on it but the thread was closed.

I wonder if the perp did want an adult woman maybe a jogger and he was not intent on taking a child. He may have been trolling the subdivision roads watching for women who do their jogging after their children leave for school. At that time of day I can imagine women jogging away while listening to an MP3 player and planning their day. I wonder how many of the attacked women jogged from their house to any of the parks?

Maybe it just so happened that Jessica and he crossed paths that fateful morning and he did the unthinkable. He may have even thought that she was a small woman with her big coat on. Was her coat put on over her backpack?

I would think that when he comes out of hiding he will again stalk woman joggers.

 

[katydid23]

thank you. and just b/c someone may have gang ties doesn't mean their own personal pathology is gang related.

True.

But I will say one thing about kids who are raised by 'gangs' ---they are often taught to be very cruel to women, besides their own women.

A lot of the kids where I worked were raised by parents who were active in gangs. And there is a lot of violence against women. It is not uncommon to get revenge upon another gang by grabbing one of their women and raping or assaulting them. And no one reports it to the cops. They just reply in kind.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

There was a petite woman a few years ago whose body was found in trash bags in an orchard to the West of where Jessica was found

...I totally don't remember this?? Link?
ETA: NM, just saw the link

 

[MidwestMama]

...I totally don't remember this?? Link?
ETA: NM, just saw the link

I'm not Cashew but I read about this here on WS. It was originally thought to be a child's body but later was identified with a missing woman, Janine Ann Johler, 38. She was physically handicapped and in a very abusive relationship. IIRC her husband is in prison for her murder.

 

[cluciano63]

I'd like to say neighborhood watch groups should be quickly formed, if not in place, and arrangements made for all unescorted kids to be chaperoned in groups, etc...but I imagine some people no longer trust their neighbors, if they ever did. LE has been clear in thinking this is a local, perhaps even a neighbor of Jessica's.

I am generally the least of all histrionic about these things, but clearly something unusual is happening in Denver, whether a result of panic, or a true series of events.

 

[msthinksalot]

It's fine to explore all possible avenues...I don't knock that. But the idea of this being a gang related thing has been brought up repeatedly, and from day one I have seen people saying they think this was done by "a mexican" based on nothing more than their opinion that Colorado has a "problem" with Mexicans/illegal immigrants. We have spent a great deal of time discussing the possibility that this is someone of hispanic descent, to the point where it is now getting erroneously reported as an unequivocal fact in MSM. That's exactly the kind of thing that could end up working AGAINST finding Jessica's killer. Imagine if someone has suspicions about someone, but they don't make that call because the rumor mill is telling them this was done by a Mexican.

I'm sure that you, along with most people here, don't have any malicious intent. It's a small number of people who are just plain stereotyping, and I find it hugely distracting.

Statistically speaking, he's overwhelmingly male (98.5%), white (66%), between 21-40 (69%), single or divorced (86%), unemployed (50%) or employed in construction trades (28%), living with some other person (83%) - most likely their parent/s (34%) and socially "marginal". https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf

I think the likelihood that he is a light-skinned Hispanic is smaller than him being a dark-haired caucasian, although the relatively short stature does fit the profile of a Hispanic. However, I still don't think that he is in any way related to a drug cartel. Jessica's crime, in particular, just doesn't seem to fit with a gangster situation, IMO.

 

[Confusion]

I agree. Under the current circumstances I certainly would. Whether that would be a "walking school bus" like another poster described (a parent posted every few blocks so the children are never out of a parents eyesight on their walk home), find a schoolmates parents who will let your child walk/ride with them, etc. I totally understand that some parents are under dire work/money situations but there are some options that cost no money and will give both child and parent more peace of mind.

BBM

With this guy, it would probably be one of the parents waiting for the kids that disappeared. I think they should reinstate free school bus service in that area until the guy is caught.

 

[cluciano63]

Please just don't let this suspect be undocumented...I have a feeling there would be true mayhem in Denver.

I am guessing he is probably a Caucasian male, just based on past stats, personally.

 

[hollyblue]

Unfortunately, that is not always true. Some people really don't have a choice.

Sad but very true, there are some single mothers that work 2-3 jobs to just make ends meet. They children have no one-- except minimal supervision as time allows. I feel so sorry for both the mother and the children. They may have no family support...either by circumstance or their own choice in trying to break away from a family into crime, drugs,etc. No matter how much the mother loves and wants to protect the child...it's a dire situation either way, imo.