CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[koalabear]

OT but just wondering if anyone sees DNA being used increasingly more like fingerprints in the future. I went through an immigration process for a Spouse visa to move to the USA from Australia. They did a criminal background check with fingerprints. I wonder if one day this type of thing will include DNA testing. Also the biometrics they take at airports for international arrivals.

I look at all these child abductions. There are new cases popping up on websleuths everyday. I'm just devastated when I see a bunch of new names added to the Missing link. What can we do about this? Is there an answer?

 

[human]

David Berkowitz aka The Son of Sam. Wonderful parents and childhood AFAIK.

Adopted. Not that adoption is bad, but back in those days, I think the infant went to a foster home.

Infants were not held for hours like they are now.

All of these things make such a difference.

Studies cannot be repeated, but orphanage studies in the past of failure to thrive and the famous Harlow's monkeys give a good indication of what this means.

Margaret Mead's daughter did a lot on attachment and the dance between mother and infant and communication.

There is so much info out there. So much.

 

[kmn]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have parenting classes and other things such as good daycare and preschools that support parents so that children don't have to suffer abuse.

Rather, it appears that we would rather spend the money on prisons, and trials, and destroyed lives.

Not everyone is going to be having a great life, but couldn't we at least care about children and families in this country instead of having bake sales to support schools and programs, etc?

Yes! OT My oldest daughter went through a very self destructive time during her mid to late teens before and after we divorced. Yes that's hard on kids. I went with her weekly to counseling for 2 years and supported her but would not let her get away with any unacceptable behavior in our home. I have a younger daughter also. I called the police on her 3 times rather than let her think her behavior was acceptable. Very stressful. She thanks me now for being there. My neighbors shunned me after the first police call. Wouldn't even wave or look at me as they drove or walked by. Might be contagious you know.

 

[Foxfire]

My image of what he's been reported to have said is that he had a rope (or something else used to tie her) which he made slip knots in. I can see putting one around her neck, one around each wrist and one around each ankle. If done "properly", any time she let her legs relax, it could tighten up the loop around her neck. He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

I also wanted to add my 2 cents on serial killers with good home lives. Just because a child has good, loving parents, it doesn't mean they haven't experienced any kind of traumatic experience. I don't believe that any 2 people experience exactly the same events in life, even if they were twins raised in the same home. We've heard about AS being bullied in the past, but there's no way to know how far the bullying went or when it started. He could have very well been beaten by classmates, molested by teachers or older boys or any number of other things that many kids experience but don't report until years later, if aat all.

I don't consider abuse to be an excuse for killing, torturing or even injurying another person, but I do think it's important to know what does contribute to these mindsets and behaviors if we want to try to prevent repeats in the future. MOO

RE: He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

Confusion, do you have a link for this statement? Very interesting..
TIA

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I wanted to correct something that I have read lately here about the amount of tips (even though they have arrested AS). It wasn't 1000, it was over 9400. Considering Isabel Celis' case only has around 3000+ since April of this year, I'm impressed. jmo (hopefully majority weren't psychics)


Posted: 10/23/2012
Last Updated: 2 days ago

WESTMINSTER, Colo. - Westminster Police officers are working their way through 9,400 tips in the abduction and murder of 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway.

Officers have received 3,400 tips via email and 6,000 phone tips, Investigator Trevor Materasso of the Westminster Police Department told 7NEWS reporter Jaclyn Allen

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ips-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

Why would the number of tips impress you? What's the difference between 9399 false tips and 3000 false tips? Jessica's case is pretty unusual, because LE indicated they were looking for a suspect.

 

[Etilema]

My image of what he's been reported to have said is that he had a rope (or something else used to tie her) which he made slip knots in. I can see putting one around her neck, one around each wrist and one around each ankle. If done "properly", any time she let her legs relax, it could tighten up the loop around her neck. He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

I also wanted to add my 2 cents on serial killers with good home lives. Just because a child has good, loving parents, it doesn't mean they haven't experienced any kind of traumatic experience. I don't believe that any 2 people experience exactly the same events in life, even if they were twins raised in the same home. We've heard about AS being bullied in the past, but there's no way to know how far the bullying went or when it started. He could have very well been beaten by classmates, molested by teachers or older boys or any number of other things that many kids experience but don't report until years later, if aat all.

I don't consider abuse to be an excuse for killing, torturing or even injurying another person, but I do think it's important to know what does contribute to these mindsets and behaviors if we want to try to prevent repeats in the future. MOO

Excellent point--even the best of parents simply cannot control all aspects of a child's experience growing up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[AstroKitty]

Hope this Ok to post. This is the school he attends, and the "faqs" but this doesn't really give with having completed his GED and attending, but again - I suck at sleuthing and the media isn't always accurate.

This is from the schools' website though. Hope this clears up things. It's rather new, opened in 2009. I don't really understand the PDF with the courses he takes. But they offer a wide variety of certificates and credits. Kind of reminds me of a Job Corp set up.

http://sc.jeffco.k12.co.us/education/components/faq/faq.php?sectiondetailid=211124&

 

[foxbluff]

If the jogger did grab the cross off of him, wouldn't they have released that information at the time?
I am pretty sure they have said all along the cross is from one of Jessica's crime scenes.[/quote]

BBM - I see what you mean, Marah, and you may well be right. However, IMHO, LE never said the cross was found at a "JR crime scene" but rather that it was found "in connection" to the JR investigation.

As far as why LE wouldn't have released the cross info at the time of the "jogger attack", IMHO, may simply have been that w/the "bags of poss. evidence" they would have picked up in the vicinity of the attack on jogger, they wouldn't have known that the cross was any more significant than the gum wrappers, paper cups, and other debris avail. for p/up at that time, and, thus didn't run expensive DNA testing on those items.

IF, however, the cross had been a "stand out" pc of evidence (perhaps per jogger) in the attack, and they did indeed do a DNA test on the cross, it would have come back as showing that the jogger-attacker-perp was not in their databases. Since, IMO, the attack of the jogger did not end in a case of murder, rape, etc., the case pretty much ended there.

 

[tlcya]

Holy Blow Margins Batman!

 

[pearl]

I believe that school is a like a career center.... (that is what we call them here).. not for behavior problems or kids who cannot cut it For our career center has mechanic programs, LPN program, culinary arts, etc.. :twocents:

An alternative school program can also be for students who are so disruptive in the regular school that they interfere with the education of other students. In my state, a student facing expulsion from school or extensive suspension has to go before a disciplinary tribunal. This tribunal sometimes keeps the kid in the school system but requires alternative school placement for half a year or a whole year.

 

[AstroKitty]

RE: He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

Confusion, do you have a link for this statement? Very interesting..
TIA

If she let her legs relax, (I'm so sorry I'm about to write this), she would have strangled herself. If he some how sedated her, her limbs would be heavy and just fall. I don't want to think about her in this light but the possible hogtie and legs falling down makes sense of the strangulation part.

If she panicked (which I'm sure she did) she could have fainted. More so if her airways were obstructed. I don't know how many of you have had panic attacks, I live with them and when they strike I can't freaking breath. I get so worked up. When I was a child it was absolutely worse.

I think the "rag" might be his MO but then again, I don't think that rag was soaked in anything that would knock anyone out, the jogger would have been rather disoriented and she wasn't. She just recalled the smell. A child the size of Jessica could easily pass out if xanax or any other benzo that an adult may have in their medicine cabinet is given to them. We also don't know if he was on any sleep aides (or his parents) that he could have used. I'm not sleuthing his mom or calling her druggy. I have ambien and xanax myself, on a kid those things were do much harm, as they aren't exactly safe as an adult. Just an opinion on what he may have decided to do since everyone else got away.

 

[AstroKitty]

An alternative school program can also be for students who are so disruptive in the regular school that they interfere with the education of other students. In my state, a student facing expulsion from school or extensive suspension has to go before a disciplinary tribunal. This tribunal sometimes keeps the kid in the school system but requires alternative school placement for half a year or a whole year.

I know where I grew up, our alternative schools were for kids who were on probation, had records that proved them to be "at risk youth" and needed to be separated from large #'s in the classroom. Where I live now, it's the same thing. If you fail drug tests (all schools here admin drug tests if you get your license and drive), you get arrested, you miss X amount of days, get into fights or are pregnant.. you are sent to an Alt school with a flexible schedule as they are half days only and start later too. Most of the students are in group homes or on their own already If they do well, they can attend the community college for the rest of their half days (2 days a week) to get credits that will aide them in attending a Uni for a higher degree. But I think the media was calling Austin's school an alternative school when I think it's a trade school Jr and Sr's can attend after half the day. they have this option for my son. He can leave school at 10:30 AM before lunch and attend a local trade school for the rest of the day.

 

[pearl]

Hope this Ok to post. This is the school he attends, and the "faqs" but this doesn't really give with having completed his GED and attending, but again - I suck at sleuthing and the media isn't always accurate.

This is from the schools' website though. Hope this clears up things. It's rather new, opened in 2009. I don't really understand the PDF with the courses he takes. But they offer a wide variety of certificates and credits. Kind of reminds me of a Job Corp set up.

http://sc.jeffco.k12.co.us/education/components/faq/faq.php?sectiondetailid=211124&

This sounds like what is referred to as a joint enrollment program. High school juniors and seniors (mostly). The student completes courses and receives high school credit and tech school or even college credit at the same time. By the time a student successfully finishes this program, he/she has a jump start to finishing the tech school program or continuing with college. We have this program in the state where I live. Students in my county can attend a tech school or two different colleges. Very popular program that has worked wonders with those students who do not thrive in regular high school. Graduation rates have increased. Program has been in place for several years.

 

[Dee10]

IIRC LE were purposely vague about where the cross was recovered - it was never specifically stated that it was found during the course of investigating Jessica's case - in fact, IIRC, they only said it was located from a "crime scene" - which could be the attempted abduction of the jogger at Ketner lake.
The fact that LE also stated that they had "strong evidence" to link the two cases leads me to believe that they had actual physical evidence from the jogger attack and not just eyewitness testimony...
Maybe?

I think it is worth remembering though the crime lab photographed (date & time-stamped) the cross the morning after they found her partial remains.

 

[jillycat]

I do not believe any infant is born evil.

I know one sociopath for sure. He has three children. Two of the boys have beaten their mother.

This father is so without morals--lying, stealing, etc etc etc. The children have observed and learned.

We can say what we want as parents, but children learn by watching us.

I fell some people are defensive about this topic for personal reasons. We all do the best we can. When we become aware of something that may not be the best in our personality or life,then we have the responsibility to start examination of changes that need to be made.

Forgive yourself and others, because no one is perfect.

I didn't say infants are born "evil". I said sociopaths are hard-wired. "Evil' is, in my view, a separate philosophical topic.

I reserve the idea of 'no one is perfect' for the human frailties the rest of us can all expect to encounter or exhibit ourselves in the journey of simply being human.

There is, in my view, a difference between personal defensiveness and a practical understanding that we cannot identify, "treat", and forgive sociopathic offenders hard enough to get to them view the world through our preferred lens.

Personally, I see a phenomenon in modern culture that says we can fix everything and eliminate horror and suffering from this world, when we cannot.

Forgiving this killer is a spiritual issue. Understanding what he is, based on his demonstrated record, and learning from that, is practical matter for society. Parents in Colorado are not as loosey-goosey with their kids walking to school alone. Kids aren't playing in parks and riding bikes without supervision as much as they were. And the public is grasping that not all child abductors are leering 40 and 50 year old males who look creepy. I suspect the police are re-considering their profile perceptions as well.

Since nothing has eliminated sociopaths from the human population no matter how hard we study the aftermath of their heinous activities, I think the awakening we've all had can be used for the increased safety of the public. That's what functional people do - they move on to extracting something helpful from the tragedy. Sociopaths, on the other hand, really don't care because the tragedy was all about them in the first place. JMO

 

[MidwestMama]

Why would the number of tips impress you? What's the difference between 9399 false tips and 3000 false tips? Jessica's case is pretty unusual, because LE indicated they were looking for a suspect.

I don't understand your point of view here. I don't see the tips that didn't pan out as "false tips". Those people called with information they believed MAY help the police in this case. Of course, not all did help. But the tips were given with the best of intentions and at the request of the LE. I would bet if you ask the LE about it they would express thanks to ALL who called in a tip, even if they didn't pan out. It only takes ONE to break the case. They got that one. That is why they asked for anyone with ANY suspicions to call in and let them figure out if it was linked to the case or not.

 

[Confusion]

RE: He reportedly said that she strangled herself while he was driving, which means (to me) that he drove around until she was so exhausted that she just let her legs relax completely and eventually died. Contrary to "hog-tying and strangling her", it would be a slow and miserable death. He could have easily stuffed something in her mouth and taped or tied it to keep her quiet, which would also make it harder for her to breather.

Confusion, do you have a link for this statement? Very interesting..
TIA

Now I'm embarrassed that I didn't ask for a link before repeating what someone else had posted. It was in a post by Otto in the last thread (#20), post #948. He only said that AS had said that she was strangled while he was driving, and Otto had said that it must mean that she had strangled herself. Sorry if the information isn't accurate.

 

[StJohn]

Sorry if this is a duplicate post - just found this article detailing DNA evidence found:

"Prosecutors said that Sigg's DNA was on Ridgeway's backpack and at the crime scene in the Arvada, Colo., where her body was found Oct. 10. Lawyers also said that traces of Sigg's DNA were left at a crime scene involving a jogger who was attacked in May."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecutor...ct-jessica-ridgeways-murder/story?id=17569788

 

[smh]

They interviewed some kids on the news and what I said before is what they said about Warren Tech. I'm just going by what was said on the news and my own personal experience with those kinds of schools. My sister went to one. She wasn't a trouble maker at all but was struggling in a regular high school. She thrived in the alternative. (P.S. I never said it was for trouble makers!)

But I really feel that AS was struggling in a regular HS and I think he was fascinated with Forensic Science, so he chose to go to Warren Tech for that reason. JMO!

Edited to add that my half brothers went to an "alternative HS" and the one is like a genius. He's now going to college and majoring in Genetics.

I wasn't trying to argue with you. I agree that AS may not have done well with traditional schooling and sought out Warren Tech because of the different education it offered as well as the interest he has in forensic science. The point I was trying to make is that Warren Tech is NOT a school for troubled teens with behavioral and emotional problems. If the news said that, then they are incorrect. There are schools like that and maybe some even in Jeffco's system. But Warren Tech is not that type of school.

 

[Wishbone]

Now I'm embarrassed that I didn't ask for a link before repeating what someone else had posted. It was in a post by Otto in the last thread (#20), post #948. He only said that AS had said that she was strangled while he was driving, and Otto had said that it must mean that she had strangled herself. Sorry if the information isn't accurate.

Don't feel bad as nothing official has been released or confirmed regarding that little tidbit. Going by what we do know, the *advertiser censored* fixation, I can only speculate that he assaulted little Jessica as he was obsessed with it. Since we don't know how deep his obsession with the *advertiser censored* went, he could have been into even the most vile things imaginable. Killing her before or after could go either way. IMO, the act of dismemberment makes he capable of any and every dememted act.