CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[tlcya]

I have a hard time understanding HOW someone didnt see more evidence or clues to Sigg's personality, actions...As bizarre and dark are his "hobbies"...Where did he go to do this brutality? His home? If so, how could his mother not pick up on strange stuff? His dad's been in/out of the prison system, so what a great role model he is... You gotta wonder how much this kid has done over the years...

Hate to sound preachy, but I grew up in the 60's, 70s, we didnt have hi tech, cable, all the stuff kids have today...we did volunteer work, worked jobs, cut lawns, sports, did things as a family...Our parents were great role models..The youths of today, with their pants hanging down to their knees is ridiculous and shows a small sign of the "disrespectful attitude" these kids have today. So many of these kids have no direction, or course of life to build their self esteem, people skills, maturity building...

This murder just blows my mind..especially with many of my friends who have children as young as Jessica..

I will keep my thoughts about dad and what I suspect was a lack of his presence in his boys lives. I feel horribly for AS mother though. From what I've read mom was struggling financially after the divorce and was working and in school getting certified for a better earning oportunity during some of AS teen years. Perhaps between trying to keep the bills paid, hold a job, go to school, etc she missed some signs. I can't find it in my heart to blame her if she did.

 

[Xavier]

This sounds like a case where AS clearly could have benefited from counseling at a young age and psychiatric intervention. He obviously was influenced by what he saw from his parents and such a young age. I know that this is a victim friendly forum, but it's still so shocking every time I hear of a kid killing another kid- especially so violently. It's so tragic that two young lives are wasted. Poor Jessica was taken away so violently and horrendously- for her family's sake and for respect for that angel, I hope the details never go public. And AS seems like he could have been smart, all that CSI interest, too bad he couldn't harness that positively and become a useful tool to catch bad guys instead of becoming a bad guy. It's a shame when a kid kills, and it's a disgusting and troubling thing when a child kills another child. One has to wonder, why? What went wrong? Who missed what signs? I saw on JVM the other day where students at his high school were interviewed and they just proudly said they bullied him. Maybe that compounded with what he went through as a kid? It still doesn't give him a pass. Or maybe no one noticed that he had a deep psychological illness. Maybe the biggest mistake that the adults in AS's life made was that they did not notice that he had a mental illness- and a poor little girl had to pay the price. Either way, he still made a horrible decision.

The bullying is really a hard thing for these kids to deal with...sadly, it's part of the national youth culture and with social media where your circle of friends know more intimate details into one's life, that aint helping matters anymore.

I've always been a big advocate of "social services" type of group at the schools to specifically be a shoulder to lean on for the youths and hear their problems...I'm all for this type of service and would gladly have my tax dollars go towards this idea...

 

[borndem]

... unlike Caylee Anthony, whose pictures were released if the price was right.

"Ouch!"

Yes, Otto, sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it? <smh> Money has a big mouth for those listening to certain tunes... And little JR's mom is about as far away from CA's mom as from here to the planet Uranus.

 

[AstroKitty]

IIRC, his girlfriend said something about his "man-cave," early on in a link in this WS board -- could this be the crawlspace, or could it be another room in their house? It sounded like it was at his house anyway; maybe it was some other special place he claimed as his -- at his dad's house? Empty building? Imagination?

Does anyone know if this "mancave" actually existed? Details?? Or was it just another AS brag, etc.??

I'm thinking he might have had the bedroom or den converted in the basement. He is 17 (probably close to 18?), and I know most kids at that age want to feel like they have an apartment. Hell, I had my ex whom I lived with take over the den into his "man cave" so I didn't have to look at all his stupid action figures and posters of kung fu movies.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I personally can't imagine an accomplice because this guy wanted notoriety - and I think he wanted it all to himself.

 

[AstroKitty]

The bullying is really a hard thing for these kids to deal with...sadly, it's part of the national youth culture and with social media where your circle of friends know more intimate details into one's life, that aint helping matters anymore.

I've always been a big advocate of "social services" type of group at the schools to specifically be a shoulder to lean on for the youths and hear their problems...I'm all for this type of service and would gladly have my tax dollars go towards this idea...

I AGREE! I know in the schools my kids went to (Chicago and NYC), there are anti-bullying programs, classes and severe punishment to anyone who participates in bullying. Not to say it doesn't still go on but they really try hard. However, where we live now (safe suburbia, my *advertiser censored*) has no anti-bullying programs and my youngest has been more than taunted. I called to complain and was told "we have 700 plus students, your son is one of, we can't keep track of all of them and their complaints.". Well, this tattooed beast of a mother showed up and proved these kids aren't just a damn number. I was appalled that was even said to me. anyway..sorry so off topic.

 

[AstroKitty]

I personally can't imagine an accomplice because this guy wanted notoriety - and I think he wanted it all to himself.

The only way I'd believe him to have an accomplice is if he could be a leader of a pack. The Alpha mentality. (Hillside stranglers is a good example). That's the only way I'd believe he would have others involved, getting off by controlling them into something and knowing they won't tell on him because they are afraid to go to jail. There are so many cases (mostly teen girls) of this. But, this is the only way I can see it factoring in.

 

[mck16]

I will keep my thoughts about dad and what I suspect was a lack of his presence in his boys lives. I feel horribly for AS mother though. From what I've read mom was struggling financially after the divorce and was working and in school getting certified for a better earning oportunity during some of AS teen years. Perhaps between trying to keep the bills paid, hold a job, go to school, etc she missed some signs. I can't find it in my heart to blame her if she did.

I understand what you are saying and I am thinking that maybe there were no signs along the way. His thoughts and actions appear so devious and cunning that I am sure he worked very hard to hide his inner demons. Of course he would not tell everyone that he liked to kill animals and of his desire to kill a person. You know what I mean. I think he was very careful to hide this from everyone. Except maybe his brother and that is why he was so upset in court. Maybe he suspicioned it, but didn't want to believe it. I don't know as I am no expert. Just some thoughts.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have a hard time understanding HOW someone didnt see more evidence or clues to Sigg's personality, actions...As bizarre and dark are his "hobbies"...Where did he go to do this brutality? His home? If so, how could his mother not pick up on strange stuff? His dad's been in/out of the prison system, so what a great role model he is... You gotta wonder how much this kid has done over the years...

Hate to sound preachy, but I grew up in the 60's, 70s, we didnt have hi tech, cable, all the stuff kids have today...we did volunteer work, worked jobs, cut lawns, sports, did things as a family...Our parents were great role models..The youths of today, with their pants hanging down to their knees is ridiculous and shows a small sign of the "disrespectful attitude" these kids have today. So many of these kids have no direction, or course of life to build their self esteem, people skills, maturity building...

This murder just blows my mind..especially with many of my friends who have children as young as Jessica..

Kids today do those things too.

 

[Tiger09]

I don't think him having a "man cave" has much to do with him being a murderer. Nor do I think his interests in anime, knives, swords, CSI, or video games nor what music he listened to had anything to do with his murder of Jessica. AS was a troubled kid with a storm brewing inside of him that no one noticed. He possibly- I am speculating- had some sort of mental health disorder- that no adult around him noticed, not because they did not care. But because they had their own issues- and that affected the kid- as it would anyone. No adult is perfect, no one is perfect. AS then went to school and was different and was bullied. School administration did not notice. It happens, but he could have at that time spoken up and gotten mental health services for himself. Why did he not speak up? Why could he not speak up? He could have made the choice to not kill an innocent child. But he did. What makes this sad is that he himself is seventeen, so he is a child too. He's a child that made a very permanent and adult decision that will impact many lives and has ruined two children's lives- and ended them as well.

After another major CO incident with teenagers- which I remember because it impacted me, though I'm miles away (I was in hs at the time and it was a game changer for all high schoolers and I was one of the quirky kids)- Marilyn Manson was asked what he would have done if one of the Columbine shooters would have came to him, he responded "I would have listened." Maybe that's what people need to do more. Tragedies like this don't need to happen. Innocent kids like Jessica don't need to die. Why aren't there more mental health services and counseling around?

 

[Xavier]

Also from your link Absentia:

"Law enforcement sources told The Post that investigators discovered a wooden cross with Jessica's dismembered body shortly after it was found Oct. 10 near a culvert in Pattridge Park Open Space."

Read more: Police strategy may have spurred mom of suspect Austin Sigg to call - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...d-mom-suspect-austin?source=pkg#ixzz2Ac1xZfkq
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
​

Which makes sense since LE photographed the cross the morning of the llth.

Sigg was a CSI fan and likely grew his "education in forensics/killers" through the TV shows....For anyone interested this book series is about a killer who leaves crucifixes on his victims....Sigg likely had the imagination to try to re invent himself as some wily, creative killer with intentions to draw attention to his "work"...[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucifix-Killer-Chris-Carter/dp/1847399088"]The Crucifix Killer: Amazon.co.uk: Chris Carter: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lX1BnrRwL.@@AMEPARAM@@51lX1BnrRwL[/ame]

 

[spamelope]

WARNING_GRAPHIC
I blew it off, because what I saw was horrible and I didn't want to seem like a ghoul. I think a lot of people just skimmed over my post a few days ago where I said Fox posted the original footage from the helicopter in a current story. Everything else people had been looking at had "objects" removed from it.
Someone even mentioned that the lights seemed to be focused on an area near the culvert, and they were right. At 1:40 in THIS (and only this) video, you can clearly see why. Something horrible, and you don't need to squint, or get a magnifying glass. It's not kittens, or a book, it's very obvious. And the color tells me it hadn't been exposed to the elements for 5 days, either.
http://kdvr.com/2012/10/24/exclusive-details-about-arrest-kidnapping-of-jessica-ridgeway-revealed/

 

[borndem]

I don't find anyone at fault for putting too many people on this case.

Can we all just wish/pray we had the resources to do the same in all the others?

Agreed, E-U, agreed! Further, it could be that at the time LE realized they had a truly missing & probably endangered little girl, that there were no "hot" cases on which they had already dedicated their personnel. I don't know whether they had a mandatory "all hands on deck" for this effort or if the LEO's who were off shift just came in to help find this little girl.

We all have seen what communities do to organize & join searches for our fellow citizens when "one of us" -- no matter the age, but this was a child, after all -- is missing. I've seen it & seen it, but each time I am amazed at the number of people who come out to help. Sometimes we humans are caught being angels...

And it may be that the vast number of searchers freed-up time for detectives, etc., to do what they do best. Anyway, this case was brought to a head very early, though not early enuff for JR and her family, and a good suspect was arrested -- thanks to another unselfish mother.

 

[mck16]

I don't think him having a "man cave" has much to do with him being a murderer. Nor do I think his interests in anime, knives, swords, CSI, or video games nor what music he listened to had anything to do with his murder of Jessica. AS was a troubled kid with a storm brewing inside of him that no one noticed. He possibly- I am speculating- had some sort of mental health disorder- that no adult around him noticed, not because they did not care. But because they had their own issues- and that affected the kid- as it would anyone. No adult is perfect, no one is perfect. AS then went to school and was different and was bullied. School administration did not notice. It happens, but he could have at that time spoken up and gotten mental health services for himself. Why did he not speak up? Why could he not speak up? He could have made the choice to not kill an innocent child. But he did. What makes this sad is that he himself is seventeen, so he is a child too. He's a child that made a very permanent and adult decision that will impact many lives and has ruined two children's lives- and ended them as well.

After another major CO incident with teenagers- which I remember because it impacted me, though I'm miles away (I was in hs at the time and it was a game changer for all high schoolers and I was one of the quirky kids)- Marilyn Manson was asked what he would have done if one of the Columbine shooters would have came to him, he responded "I would have listened." Maybe that's what people need to do more. Tragedies like this don't need to happen. Innocent kids like Jessica don't need to die. Why aren't there more mental health services and counseling around?

My dil is a sociologist and a counselor at a high school and not to disparage counselors in any way, but I would not want my son or daughter going to her for any problems. She has way too many of her own. Actually she is in counsellling for her own anger management issues. Very nice as to outside appearances, but a little horror to family and friends. She doesn't have many friends anymore and has totally alienated many family members. jmo

 

[AstroKitty]

Thanks, and IIRC the friend, AC I think his initials were, stated that AS knife collection, at the time they were hanging out, consisted of mosly some dull swords.

While discussing the knife collection, I wanted to answer a poster who questioned a while back "what is the fascination with teen boys and knife collections lately" (paraphrased)

This IME is not a new thing. My brother as a teen had a collection of knifes, ninja stars and nunjucks (in the 80s).

My now adult son also collected knives and daggers. My teen nephews do the same.

I think for young males it is something of a coming of age thing. Being old enough to now be entrusted with the responsibility of owning a dangerous weapon/tool. I don't find this a new phenomenon it is rather common and typical IME. Unfortunately, AS is far from typical teen.

Anyway, thanks, your post brought to mind the other posters question and my thoughts about it.

My kid (17) has swords, chinese throwing stars (THANKS EX BOYFRIEND!) and various other crap that even adult men I know still hang onto. It's a guy thing. I found this out to be true by just asking my male friends. But AS isn't a typical teen although I think he had some semblance of being one, his deeper desires were anything but.

 

[AstroKitty]

WARNING_GRAPHIC
I blew it off, because what I saw was horrible and I didn't want to seem like a ghoul. I think a lot of people just skimmed over my post a few days ago where I said Fox posted the original footage from the helicopter in a current story. Everything else people had been looking at had "objects" removed from it.
Someone even mentioned that the lights seemed to be focused on an area near the culvert, and they were right. At 1:40 in THIS (and only this) video, you can clearly see why. Something horrible, and you don't need to squint, or get a magnifying glass. It's not kittens, or a book, it's very obvious. And the color tells me it hadn't been exposed to the elements for 5 days, either.
http://kdvr.com/2012/10/24/exclusive-details-about-arrest-kidnapping-of-jessica-ridgeway-revealed/

Right there we have it. From the video it's stated that they are still looking for the place where the dismemberment took place, the 2nd crime scene. This makes me think that he has not given up to them where that DID take place and now it's up to the LE to either try and drag it out of him or piece together those days and where he could have gone. He's holding onto that because probably more things will be discovered, that would tie him to other crimes (animals or attempted abductions). I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he had newspaper clippings, youtube videos favorited on the case as well, under another screen name of course. This was his place of solace and private. He has control on really closing this case has he denies to give the 2nd location. Why? Either because of what I stated above or because it was at some place that would implicate other people (those that are innocent or possibly not). Thank you for the link! very informative.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I was thinking that if this was just 20 years ago, how many of us here would've heard of the case? There was no Internet. Was the case reported in your newspaper? Or on your local news? How much national TV coverage would it be given with the election going on? NG and JVM didn't exist. Did GMA/Today cover true crime back then too? You might have still heard of it, but would it more difficult to follow every development?

So I don't think there are more cases, but that the Internet allows A LOT more cases to reach a national, or even international, audience.

 

[nursebeeme]

Right there we have it. From the video it's stated that they are still looking for the place where the dismemberment took place, the 2nd crime scene. This makes me think that he has not given up to them where that DID take place and now it's up to the LE to either try and drag it out of him or piece together those days and where he could have gone. He's holding onto that because probably more things will be discovered, that would tie him to other crimes (animals or attempted abductions). I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he had newspaper clippings, youtube videos favorited on the case as well, under another screen name of course. This was his place of solace and private. He has control on really closing this case has he denies to give the 2nd location. Why? Either because of what I stated above or because it was at some place that would implicate other people (those that are innocent or possibly not). Thank you for the link! very informative.

bbm: that video is also from outside the house (eta date: on the 24th of october) where they were searching with plans to be there multiple days. It is very possible the second crime scene has been found in the house imhoo:moo:

 

[pinto]

Kids today do those things too.

Yes, yes they do.

 

[AstroKitty]

I don't think him having a "man cave" has much to do with him being a murderer. Nor do I think his interests in anime, knives, swords, CSI, or video games nor what music he listened to had anything to do with his murder of Jessica. AS was a troubled kid with a storm brewing inside of him that no one noticed. He possibly- I am speculating- had some sort of mental health disorder- that no adult around him noticed, not because they did not care. But because they had their own issues- and that affected the kid- as it would anyone. No adult is perfect, no one is perfect. AS then went to school and was different and was bullied. School administration did not notice. It happens, but he could have at that time spoken up and gotten mental health services for himself. Why did he not speak up? Why could he not speak up? He could have made the choice to not kill an innocent child. But he did. What makes this sad is that he himself is seventeen, so he is a child too. He's a child that made a very permanent and adult decision that will impact many lives and has ruined two children's lives- and ended them as well.

After another major CO incident with teenagers- which I remember because it impacted me, though I'm miles away (I was in hs at the time and it was a game changer for all high schoolers and I was one of the quirky kids)- Marilyn Manson was asked what he would have done if one of the Columbine shooters would have came to him, he responded "I would have listened." Maybe that's what people need to do more. Tragedies like this don't need to happen. Innocent kids like Jessica don't need to die. Why aren't there more mental health services and counseling around?

BBM
I agree with this so much. I've battled some financial hardships in the last year and I'll fully admit that I wasn't exactly the perfect mom. I became engrossed with my own tragedy, as a single mom it piles on quick and you just lose it because you don't want to tell anyone who might think you are a bad mom or not equipped, when you know that things will get better but for now - it's a matter of each day and pushing forward. None of us are perfect and being a mother to two boys is hard enough (my kids are her sons ages), when things hit the fan - good ole mom has to do it all and there's only so much of us to go around. His entire recent issues could have been spawned because mom was (I heard) in school, working and attempting to figure out how to keep the lights on. She was busy holding down the fort and I'm sure she loves her kids dearly, and probably is blaming herself in some way and asking "how did I not know?". God, I feel so bad for her. And the dad not even returning from Mexico to at least stand by his ex and mother to his children just reeks of what he thought his responsibilities are/were. Ugh.

There's many reasons I'd speculate why he didn't want to speak up. First of all, with his dad gone and mom having so much on her plate, he may have taken over as the man of the house. Dropping out of school to get a head start on an education to provide, possibly for them. He didn't want to disappoint her, or let her know he felt he was failing in life. He didn't want to add more pressure to her. Or it's because he wanted these desires to remain and felt he had no problems in that area, he had an agenda. I think it's either both or a mixture of the two. Guilt for what he felt and there's no doubt he's a psychopath (of what degree in the spectrum isn't up to us to determine).

I can tell you that my oldest, his age, had some brewing issues of depression and one day I just asked. I had to pry it out of im but finally he told me that he didn't want to bother me with it because he's man of the house and knew I had so much to deal with as it was. He thought he was being helpful, but I rather him be open with me and allow me to get him help. I love him. I'm sure Austin's mom loved him too. I know at 17, even though I was already living states away on my own with a kid and in college, I kept everything to myself. Not because I cared what my parents thought but because I didn't want to be perceived as failing or stupid, weak or unable to be an adult. Boys themselves have a different set of pressures to cope with since they feel societies pressure to be perfect. (read up on border-line personality disorders, there's a great doc on youtube). I'm NOT saying PTSD or BPD go on to hurt people, it's all inward pain of not relating or understanding.

This dismemberment, while he had vested interest in death, I don't think was planned. I think sadly (JMO) he had her alive for awhile. I think he liked the idea of subduing a female, have control finally, being alpha. But it brought him no joy (as he has stated) and then he realized he couldn't release her. He brain went into the mode of how to get away with it, and I think that's where dismemberment took ahold and that's possibly what he enjoyed doing to cats (although we have no proof he did that), he might have realized at that point that the thrill wasn't really grabbing someone but what he would do after death.

JMO