CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[1wonderleads2another]

LE have a close eye on PF so if he’s guilty (statistically likely) hopefully they have the needed evidence or will have it sooner than later ... and until we get more details it’s , in my mind, hard to take PF from probable suspect to definite suspect.

That said my mind keeps going to a far fetched place, that I haven’t seen here yet (though I admit my life and work have gotten in the way of reading every post in 10 threads so I may have missed) ... MOO all that follows.

So in far fetched land, .1% chance, does anyone else think it’s possible KB was taken for her flying ability AND ability to teach others to fly? (Like by a drug cartel from another country )

It would go with the theory I have seen here that ,if PF wasn’t involved, yes a big IF, another person may have come to KBs house and told her ‘there’s been an accident (PF , Baby K, etc) I’ve been sent to drive you to hospital “

Then the reason the texts were sent to her work and PF 11/25 was anyone who was observing her based on her job would only know her work connections and most likely made observations on her relationship with PF. They wouldn’t care about buying time with her family (which they would have figured out were out of state). And their reasons for buying a week with PF and Doss would be to get her out of the country. We don’t know what PFs text said or how detailed it was.

Doss Aviation website makes it darn clear they are military related and teach flying skills so easy to find in internet searches.

This far fetched theory could also include that PF has been contacted and Baby K threatened and thus why he refuses to speak etc (yes I know even more far fetched)

All very MOO but as others have said there have been past cases with very far fetched endings. (And in this case the 90% likely perp is being watched very closely ) Also KB does have a unique skill set that not many smallish women who would be easy over power and carry have. JMO

 

[susiQ]

People want to develop a theory in which KB is still alive. I understand and respect that. So here it is: It is remotely possible that someone is holding her against her will.

I too respect those that sincerely want to believe she may still be alive, but I'm a realist. So I'd say, very unlikely

 

[K9Enzo]

I had suggested, threads back, that people encourage others to boycott his business in an effort just to pressure him to sit down with LE. That met with some resistance. Ok. Now + the info re: animal treatment. Hmm. How do I feel/continue to feel now, in general about all of this? Not good.

Oh wow. This is an example of why LE despise groups like this, especially the closed FB groups that start. The court of public opinion.

He has not been arrested, charged or convicted. While I will absolutely agree he gives me pause. LE IS investigating him. They must be permitted to do their job. If he is guilty, a rushed investigation, a sloppy case handed over to the prosecution could get the case thrown out.

To mess with his livelihood, which impacts others, not just him, without an arrest or conviction is wrong on so many levels.

Regarding the animals and mistreatment. That's a matter of opinion as well.

 

[Denvergirl]

People want to develop a theory in which KB is still alive. I understand and respect that. So here it is: It is remotely possible that someone is holding her against her will.

I believe this is a possibility if the perp is not PF.

 

[Denvergirl]

People want to develop a theory in which KB is still alive. I understand and respect that. So here it is: It is remotely possible that someone is holding her against her will.

I think of Castro and those poor girls in OH. I’m sure many believed they were dead.

 

[PrairieWind]

It always amazes me the role that chance plays in cases like this. For instance, the neighbor that reported seeing PF's truck at KB's home on Thanksgiving. Had she just happened to look out her window at little later moment, she could have seen PF leaving been able to tell us who was with him. If it is indeed PF's story that he picked up the baby then and left KB, but in reality KB when with them, he took a big chance that no one saw him.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

This theory definitely presumed it was premeditated. I’m having a hard time thinking that someone would plan to something on thanksgiving day?

So you're fine with someone plotting murder, as long as it isn't on a holiday?

Thanksgiving Day, if PF already had plans with KB, would be a great time. He knows she isn't expected elsewhere, and then there's a long weekend for a lot of people. No one would wonder where she was (except the toddler) for days.

 

[UnicornDragon]

Have you shared your theoretical version? I'd like to think I'm open minded, but I'm just not able at this point to give him the "benefit" of the doubt.

I'm not even sure who the 5% unknown is. I know who raises my hinky meter, not as much as PF but enough to go "hrmm...."

But ok.
11/22 - PF and KB swap the baby. Maybe they squabble, maybe not, whatever.
11/23-24 - unknown. May just have been too long to ping her cell, people go on radio silence for a day or two all the time if they want, maybe she has a second phone we haven't had reported yet, too many other things.
11/25 - Unknown tells Kelsey something. Who knows what. It's enough to get her to grab at minimum her purse and phone and leave. At some point, she texts PF and her employer. Around 5 pm, they are near the Gooding Idaho tower that pings.

She's killed at some point after that. Why, don't know. Who, don't know.

It's an unknown to us, it's a known person to her. Work excuse, family excuse, whatever reason that had her willingly get in a vehicle with another person.

95% likely it's PF. But 5% could be someone else, who knows full well that everyone will look at PF hardcore because that's the statistical normal. And they got dang lucky by having an extended gap before anything was reported to the police.

 

[Kapua]

I think of Castro and those poor girls in OH. I’m sure many believed they were dead.

Yes, almost everyone did and had given up hope. And Jaycee Dugard was missing for 18 years, and Elizabeth Smart for 9 months. These cases give hope to families of the missing, but are sadly the very rare exception.

 

[The Night Watchman]

I think the most likely possibility is that on Nov. 22 she took her purse and their child and departed her residence with him in his vehicle (truck), and her home is in the exact same condition as it was on that day. I don't think she dropped off or he picked up the child. I think they most likely were going to pick up a tree or out to dinner. MOO

My theory is also that she left in his truck with the baby, everything points to her leaving the house willingly. Just to talk, or clear the air (0r similar); with plans to return in a reasonable amount of time. Conversation does not go as planned, and then there is foul play.

Tree cutting- I do not think their relationship was in a good enough place to be in line with that idea. They don't live together. And no one I know cuts a tree on Thanksgiving, or even has time for it.

If something happened during a tree cutting, this would be more premeditated. That is not how I see him. I do see him as forceful and reactionary; someone who makes the rules. There are a lot of people like that. This may not necessarily make someone a bad person, and it is kind of a cowboy mentality.

I don't see him as a bad person. Before Thanksgiving Day 2018 anyways.

 

[x_files]

In past cases: good/close friend, brother, lover, mother, father, discreet (paid) stranger...

Not as uncommon as you might think. Unwise, absolutely.

 

[playthe361]

You cannot get much lower on the human chain than a person who would abuse animals. Wow, the horrific things he did to horses----- how much more anger and
abuse would it take to do something to a woman who made you angry for one reason or another-- not a great stretch.

Its truly remarkable how so many people are willing to believe just about anything someone says, as long as it supports whatever they choose to believe in or agree with. This guy abuses animals, he cheats on a girlfriend who is in the hospital and whatever else everyone quickly deems factual. I am in the extreme minority of people who chooses to look at these statements as, just something someone is saying at this point. I believe, when trying to decide if a human being is guilty of doing something really, really awful, that anything that anyone says about the person or the persons life, needs to be supported by irrefutable evidence. It makes no difference what I believe or think happened in this case. There is hardly any irrefutable evidence supporting anything we have heard or read about. Almost all the "facts of the case" have come from something someone has said, based on their personal perception and what they have chosen to believe about the people involved in this case and the lives they lived. That is it. I believe it is a little dangerous to make personal perception and personal beliefs, fact, in any situation. I am fairly certain most people would strongly oppose that being done with anything in their lives outside of sleuthing this case.

 

[cattlekate]

I was so surprised that Safeway had video of Nov 22. We don’t know when LE obtained the video, but assuming it was shortly after the Dec 2 well-check, then that’s almost 2 weeks after KB went to the store! The video was released to the media on Dec 11, so it could’ve been kept even longer than 2 weeks!

Unfortunately, if PF picked KB and baby up at her townhouse and drove to Florissant on US 24 for a meal with CB’s recipe and ingredients KB bought, that’s in the opposite direction of Safeway. But maybe there are other businesses that keep their cam records as long and maybe one could see if PF had KB in his vehicle.

LE must have something in order to get the search warrant. Whether it’s business/highway cams, Safeway products which are not in KB’s house, PF and/or KB phones pinging along US 24 and other areas on Nov 22 - we don’t know much right now.

But I’m convinced this case will be solved in short order by electronics.

 

[x_files]

What a rollercoaster.
The Watts case in CO, now this one.
These guys are such cowards, they don't dare pick on someone their own size.

moo

I wonder if his google searches show he followed that case?
Curious, if he got any ideas from it.

 

[BuySellTrade]

What are the chances here do you guys think of a random abduction?

PF would be an extremely unlucky person because the circumstances have placed him in the crosshairs of blame for KB's disappearance.

IMO very likely that PF knows what happened to KB.

Man is it hard to keep up on this case. I'm still on page 23 of this thread and haven't read the last 12 pages of the prior thread.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

They say on this report that KB dropped the baby at the farm. LE said PF picked up the daughter at KB's house, so what really happened? Another misreporting?

The truth is always the truth it never changes.
So who is going to trip over this discrepancy?

 

[Kapua]

Here's the thing. If I am going for a walk or run, my car and my purse are at my house, but my cell phone and keys are with me. If I am going on a trip lasting, say a week, I pack a suitcase with clothes, toiletries, makeup, and vitamins, and don't leave fresh baked goods out on the counter. If my car is at my house, but my purse and I are not, then I left my house in someone else's vehicle.

 

[SandyQLS]

I'm a little surprised we havent heard more from her employer and coworkers.

They may be forbidden from speaking to the press, but of course they have every right to speak to LE.

I also find it odd in 2 years+ at one employer that she doesn't have a close work buddy, or several acquaintance level friends. Who does she eat lunch with?

But there is more:
- no known backup daycare in Pueblo or Woodland Park
- no mention of new mom friends made during birth classes or Lamaze
- no known church attendance of any affiliation (a lot of churches have daycare during services to give parents undistracted religion time and also provides babies with safe playdate time)
- no playdates with other moms/babies
- no Mommy&Me exercise class
- no local friends, no organized activities, no social activities with neighbors
- no one seems to know PF & KB as a couple either, except the 70 year old neighbor who thought he lived at her townhome

 

[jaspermac]

I have heard family say, repeatedly, it would be unlike her to leave without telling anyone.

But I do think they are still talking like she may have been taken somewhere else...or that the explanation might not involve PF.

This is from an interview her cousin did the day before yesterday:

“As the days and weeks have passed since Berreth disappeared on Thanksgiving Day, Garretson said she is convinced something is wrong. But she doesn’t know what it could be. Although she never met her cousin’s fiancé, Patrick Frazee, his reputation within her family is good. She had never heard that there was anything wrong with the relationship.”

It is pretty hard to say publicly that you suspect the fiance without significant evidence. You don't want to be that person in the family that destroyed him if he is innocent. You don't want to interfere and create problems for grandmom and the fiance. So if you are smart you say nothing except what you know for sure. The reality is if he did do it and is convicted the family still will be shocked. All they know of him is good. And the reality is that may have been who he was until he snapped. He may have had some underlying issues, controlling, easy to anger but overall he could have been a really nice guy who for some reason no one will ever be able to understand did something terrible. That story is told over and over again in these situations. Look at CW. I also know from personal experience. That leaves the family saying he was always a great dad, a nice guy but it turns out underneath all that he was evil...

 

[Steelhead]

I think the most likely possibility is that on Nov. 22 she took her purse and their child and departed her residence with him in his vehicle (truck), and her home is in the exact same condition as it was on that day. I don't think she dropped off or he picked up the child. I think they most likely were going to pick up a tree or out to dinner. MOO

I think this too, although, I think there's a possibility that it happened on the 23rd. It might be a long shot, but I haven't seen anything that would refute it, . . . yet.