CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

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calo44 said:
Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?
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I don't think there was a break up. I think that is a false cover story PF gave at first. MOO.
 
Hopefullyhelpful said:
Didn’t we see somewhere in the MSM reports that PF’s mom, in addition to owning the “ranch also owned two other pieces of property? Am I the only one wondering about those locations and whether or not they’ve been thoroughly searched?
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I would think any property related to PF has been searched.
But, with all the wilderness out there, burying a body on properties owned by family, I would think is not a wise choice.:(
In the wilderness, others may have disposed of the body there, whereas on family owned property, possibly only relatives with access to these properties could do this.
MOO.
 
calo44 said:
Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?
Click to expand...

Good points! Maybe there wasn't even an argument on the day she was killed. Maybe her death had nothing to do with even a heated debate! Maybe there wasn't even a break up!
 
oviedo said:
All of Casey Anthony’s conversations in jail were recorded and on video
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I noticed with Chris Watts and his father speaking in the interview room together, they both tilted their heads away from the cameras and appeared to be whispering.
Aware of cameras, and being recorded, these actions were possibly, so their voices were not picked up.
MOO.
 
calo44 said:
Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?
Click to expand...
I'm not certain that PF committed the actual murder. Of all people, he would want a clear alibi for Thanksgiving. It may be true that PF picked up and took the baby on T-giving leaving KB home alone. The hired person enters and commits the crime; LE may have evidence of this second person present but not know who it is. And there are more possibilities like PF + Unsub committed the murder together. The solicitation charge could be a separate incident, like the first person PF asked declined the offer, but gave information suggesting there would be an Unsub accomplice.
 
PrairieWind said:
If you’re u think that sort of thinking and speculation is victim shaming then you would be shocked to learn there is a lot of “victim blaming” going on at the DAs office, police and FBI. To understand a case, you have to be willing to try to understand the perp’s mindset and decision making process. Speculation about what PK thought and felt doesn’t validate those thoughts or mean that the poster agrees.
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Thank you! I agree.
 
Patrick Frazee, fiancé of missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth, arrested and booked in her murder
Frazee made his first appearance in court by video Friday afternoon. He was never addressed by the judge directly and could not be seen by reporters in the courtroom. The judge granted the prosecution’s request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family.

Frazee was the only person arrested in the case as of Friday morning, De Young said, and officials wouldn’t provide any more detail about how they came to the solicitation charge.

Under the solicitation statute, a suspect would not only have discussed committing a crime with another person but would have taken steps to see it through, May said.

“So, it isn’t just a discussion,” the prosecutor said. “You’ve actually done something that shows the firmness of your actions.”
 
According to Colorado Legal Defense Group (shouselaw.com) in referencing Colorado Crime of Conspiracy, 18-2-201 C.R.S and Colorado’s Criminal Solicitation Law 18-2-301 C.R.S.,
"A key difference between solicitation and conspiracy is that for the crime of conspiracy to take place, there must be an agreement between at least two people to commit a crime and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. In the offense of criminal solicitation, on the other hand, the motive or intent of the person solicited is irrelevant to the question of whether the person soliciting the crime has violated the solicitation statute".
During the press conference, a reporter asked LE if the charge of solicitation would result in additional arrests, to which LE responded that it was "an absolute possibility".
To me, that suggests that there's a little more going on here than someone simply having come forward to say that they turned PF down when he attempted to solicit them in her murder.
 
calo44 said:
Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?
Click to expand...

Hi, I agree with you and have been pondering the same thing.

Much earlier, one poster (and I wish I remember who) pointed out that unhappy women don't bake. Looking at what we understand of KB's day, she appeared happy. Not as though she had broken off a long-term relationship the day before or was planning to that day.

Items listed as suggesting KB was happy:
1. she baked cinnamon rolls that morning;
2. she talked twice to her mother getting a favorite recipe to make;
3. she went shopping. Was it for ingredients for a family meal later? What she bought does not appear to have been disclosed.

In other words, seeing her day the way I'm now seeing it, it appears she was planning a family meal with PF and/or someone. Most likely PF since LE said there was no evidence of anyone else in her life.

So, how did she wind up gone that afternoon? Esp. now that he has been charged with solicitation of murder?
 
tmar said:
I would think any property related to PF has been searched.
But, with all the wilderness out there, burying a body on properties owned by family, I would think is not a wise choice.:(
In the wilderness, others may have disposed of the body there, whereas on family owned property, possibly only relatives with access to these properties could do this.
MOO.
Click to expand...
Has anyone found evidence of whether he or Mama F have a BLM lease? I still maintain he could have disposed of her body somewhere in the vastness of those mountains never to be found unless someone leads LE to her body.
 
enelram said:
Kelsey's parents were skeptical of PF from the start, calling
him an "odd duck".
Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth
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I'm curious "why were KB's parents 'skeptical' of him"?
Why do they call him an odd duck?
He must have behaved in peculiar ways to give the parent those
vibes. You'd think he'd be on his best behavior while visiting
with her parents, but apparently not.
I hope we hear more from her family about this description.
 
jillianelaine said:
Good points! Maybe there wasn't even an argument on the day she was killed. Maybe her death had nothing to do with even a heated debate! Maybe there wasn't even a break up!
Click to expand...

Perhaps, due to the charges the murder was pre planned.
The murder was possibly committed by PF alone as initial idea/plan may have altered.
Only a few days before we may have more clarity about this.
MOO.
 
Jazzy5980 said:
Not uncommon for families to mortgage land to obtain funds for legal representation.
Click to expand...
The Caison family mortgaged their property to pay for an attorney to represent Tammy Moorer - wasted that money too, thankfully she's sitting in prison for the next 30 years for kidnapping and conspiracy to kidnap Heather Elvis. Heather's body has never been found.
 
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