CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[heartgoesout]

No evidence at all of that. I don't think this is a reasonable assumption.

jmo

I sure hope not but in looking for a motive to take out your child's mother I think it is reasonable speculation.

 

[MassGuy]

Hi,
I suspect we all perceive things according to our own backgrounds, and this discussion is a good example of that.

In my experience, with my ex-husband and the father of my child, he would never, ever, under any circumstances have cared for our child those long hours. Not even with his mother doing the majority of the work.

Never.

No matter what, he could not be inconvenienced.


If I had car trouble, don't bother him, call my dad.

Taking care of "the kid" as he called him? He was good for maybe an hour, but any sort of long hours of child care, he would have insisted that I handle it and that I pay for it.

Period. End of discussion.

I see from the expectations of other posters on this site how unusual that must be.

If PF is as selfish as everyone believes him to be, there had to be something in it for him that he accepted those long hours of child care.

Of course, we're all individuals and his way of looking at things are probably very different from my ex's.

Wonder if KB had an insurance policy for the baby?

I think the child was in it for him.

He could have still been selfish and self centered, but if he loved his daughter, he may have wanted to have her in his custody.

There’s no way that this has anything to do with life insurance on the child.

This was likely about her though.

 

[Charlot123]

I know love is blind but I just can't see what KB saw in PF. I know they met online and quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he sold her a bill of goods and a big one at that being she moved to CO from WA to be with him.

You have an attractive very successful person who has accomplished a lot in her life including a commercial pilot's license and a CFI.

Meanwhile he is still living at home, using his mother's small patch of dirt to do everything from training dogs, horses, jockeying cattle, rodeo events and even works as a farrier but the truth is he was mostly scratching for a living. Get a pickup truck, throw a bale of hay in the back and you're a cowboy. Like they say " All hat and no cattle."

She was very pretty, and hard-working, and financially independent from him. And I hope that towards the end, she was starting to see him for what he was, because if she died loving him, or even trusting him, it would be even more sad.

However, they met on dating media, and it airbrushes a lot of things.

Also, he has this style that would appeal to many women, being tall and strong, but with a boyish, almost pretty, face, plus the image of a macho cowboy, so he probably attracted girls.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

First, I am just glad baby K is okay. I know I probably will be in the minority here as I never experienced the love bond between being a parent and having a child. But I just felt extremely uncomfortable with baby K staying with her father for as long as she did. If somebody is capable of killing and all of a sudden the authorities are there to arrest the parent who knows what they would possibly do to the child. I know it was said that they had a big armored vehicle that they activated when they were arresting PF although it wasn't needed but why wait til things got to this extreme before removing the child? I'm not saying they should take the child right away but being he was uncooperative and not willing to sit down with authorities to clear himself I think that should have been enough. By not wanting to sit down with authorities (even with a lawyer) should raise a huge red flag, likewise, sitting down and ATTEMPTING to clear yourself and being cooperative with LE would go a long ways I believe. After all most people on here had a very strong suspicion of what happened, correct that they were, and this was well over a week, possibly 2 weeks before he was arrested. I know the authorities hands are tied as to what they can/cannot do. Or worst case when they got the search warrant as they would have needed more info suspecting his part in her disappearance to get that I would have liked to see baby K removed at that point. You can always return the child but I think the child's safety should be the very top priority. I don't follow these cases as I just started with the disappearance of Jaymee Closs as that happened where I grew up in WI and then am following this as it is in CO. But there has probably been instances when someone killed their spouse and then ended up killing the kid(s) as well. And it that ever happened once it is once too many. Kids are at the mercy of their parents and to fail to remove one from somebody who they have a strong reason to be very dangerous I think is a major breakdown in the system. Again, I have no kids but I would like to believe the child's safety should be the #1 priority. Fortunately baby K is safe but who knows how all this will impact her and for how long. Just MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I think the child was in it for him.

He could have still been selfish and self centered, but if he loved his daughter, he may have wanted to have her in his custody.

There’s no way that this has anything to do with life insurance on the child.

This was still about her though.

I have seen some narcissistic guys who actually, are good fathers because they view their kids as “mini-me”.

 

[TTF14]

I have seen some narcissistic guys who actually, are good fathers because they view their kids as “mini-me”.

How does that make them good fathers? (Not being sarcastic, just not sure what you mean)

 

[Inthedetails]

I sure hope not but in looking for a motive to take out your child's mother I think it is reasonable speculation.

I understand, but don't see it fitting in this particular case.

As much as I think Kelsey stayed in the situation out of integrity and the value she placed on raising her child with the father involved, I do not think for one moment she would have put up with even a hint of child *advertiser censored*. That is something, I think, she would leave over and protect her child. That would be a 100% instant deal-breaker, imo.

But she wasn't leaving. She told her mom she had plans with PF that evening. She continued letting her child spend time at his house - and I don't think she would do that with a hint of child *advertiser censored* being involved.

And I don't think she "suddenly" found out about child *advertiser censored* because of the fact he solicited her murder, which indicates he planned to kill her before Thanksgiving.

If evidence emerges about a child-*advertiser censored* connection, I'll change my mind. But I just don't see it with the timeline or anything else.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

How does that make them good fathers? (Not being sarcastic, just not sure what you mean)

Because they still care for and love their child.

It doesn’t make them good people.

 

[MsBetsy]

ETA: I posted my reply in the quote. Multitasking isn’t working for me today!




I don’t find it strange she didn’t give her daughter his last name. I personally got pregnant out of wedlock twice. (Don’t judge) My first child was given my last name because I had no intentions on marrying the father. Moving on....I got pregnant again years later and was planning a wedding 6 months after so we choose to postpone our wedding until after the baby was born. I had bought a very expensive gown I was insistent on fitting into. We gave that child my now husband’s last name.

Just wanted to share my personal reasoning.

Yet the only reason that makes sense to me in using her last name is that she didn't expect him to be too involved in the child's life, or she had no desire to marry him.
I suppose there could be other reasons, but if it's true that the baby has her last name I would think it was because she was unsure of the future and whether or not he was going to stick around. Imo

 

[The Night Watchman]

I wish I wasn't typing this...
I wonder if the evidence that was found at KB's home had to do with things found in the plumbing.
Clearly, this is MOO, but I think the possibility of dismemberment is all to realistic.
I haven't been able to read every post, so sorry if I have missed some information, but upon reading about LE checking the septic tank, makes me wonder even more.

I do not find dismemberment to plausible. Dismemberment is done for purpose in a "typical" murder. Removing a body from a apartment complex, for example, when moving a large object can be seen, and easily remembered later by witnesses. It also creates a large amount of fluids and forensic evidence (...dry heave).

If PF is removing a body from the condo, it is easy to do after dark, with large blanket or sack. With an intact body. Dismember to a smaller size creates more trips to the truck. Most people would have a very hard time cutting a body, although PF surely had to deal with unpleasant tasks on the farm.

Dismembering away from the condo would more an option, but why would you with the wilderness staring you in the face?

Do not see this as an option.

 

[Inthedetails]

I do not find dismemberment to plausible. Dismemberment is done for purpose in a "typical" murder. Removing a body from a apartment complex, for example, when moving a large object can be seen, and easily remembered later by witnesses. It also creates a large amount of fluids and forensic evidence (...dry heave).

If PF is removing a body from the condo, it is easy to do after dark, with large blanket or sack. With an intact body. Dismember to a smaller size creates more trips to the truck. Most people would have a very hard time cutting a body, although PF surely had to deal with unpleasantly tasks on the farm.

Dismembering way from the condo would more an option, but why would you with the wilderness staring you in the face?

Do not see this as an option.

I see it as an option if he wanted to disperse the body over a large area....and part of me thinks that is what happened. Total speculation, not fact.

jmo

 

[The Night Watchman]

I see it as an option if he wanted to disperse the body over a large area....and part of me thinks that is what happened. Total speculation, not fact.

jmo

I think that gives more chance of discovery and DNA matching.

 

[MassGuy]

I do not find dismemberment to plausible. Dismemberment is done for purpose in a "typical" murder. Removing a body from a apartment complex, for example, when moving a large object can be seen, and easily remembered later by witnesses. It also creates a large amount of fluids and forensic evidence (...dry heave).

If PF is removing a body from the condo, it is easy to do after dark, with large blanket or sack. With an intact body. Dismember to a smaller size creates more trips to the truck. Most people would have a very hard time cutting a body, although PF surely had to deal with unpleasant tasks on the farm.

Dismembering away from the condo would more an option, but why would you with the wilderness staring you in the face?

Do not see this as an option.

I do, if he did it in the bathtub, which is pretty standard practice as those things go.

I’m trying to make sense of the banging during the last search.

Drywall or flooring is the most likely, but if they were removing plumbing, that would be a telltale sign.

 

[Inthedetails]

Alert a mod if you see victim blaming. I haven't noticed here, but if that is a concern - tell a mod.

jmo

 

[Noharg]

I’m dropping in between cooking (hosting family pj party this evening) to see if there are any new leads, so while I may not comment much, I’m reading.
I suspect LE has either her phone and/or person(s) who took it to Idaho (Knowingly? Unknowingly?) JMO
I agree with poster on dismemberment theory-I just don’t see a body being taken from apt without raising neighbors’ eyebrows. Smaller bags would be less conspicuous. Again, JMO.
Back to cooking!

 

[cody22]

I do, if he did it in the bathtub, which is pretty standard practice as those things go.

I’m trying to make sense of the banging during the last search.

Drywall or flooring is the most likely, but if they were removing plumbing, that would be a telltale sign.

Hmm.........If you dropped those trash bag wrapped body parts in different business dumpsters all over Colorado Springs, off to the land fill, they would go......MOO

 

[cody22]

I’m dropping in between cooking (hosting family pj party this evening) to see if there are any new leads, so while I may not comment much, I’m reading.
I suspect LE has either her phone and/or person(s) who took it to Idaho (Knowingly? Unknowingly?) JMO
I agree with poster on dismemberment theory-I just don’t see a body being taken from apt without raising neighbors’ eyebrows. Smaller bags would be less conspicuous. Again, JMO.
Back to cooking!

Cinnamon rolls ???....Hint, hint, hint.

 

[Charlot123]

How does that make them good fathers? (Not being sarcastic, just not sure what you mean)

I think they subconsciously perceive the kids as part of themselves.

 

[heartgoesout]

I understand, but don't see it fitting in this particular case.

As much as I think Kelsey stayed in the situation out of integrity and the value she placed on raising her child with the father involved, I do not think for one moment she would have put up with even a hint of child *advertiser censored*. That is something, I think, she would leave over and protect her child. That would be a 100% instant deal-breaker, imo.

But she wasn't leaving. She told her mom she had plans with PF that evening. She continued letting her child spend time at his house - and I don't think she would do that with a hint of child *advertiser censored* being involved.

And I don't think she "suddenly" found out about child *advertiser censored* because of the fact he solicited her murder, which indicates he planned to kill her before Thanksgiving.

If evidence emerges about a child-*advertiser censored* connection, I'll change my mind. But I just don't see it with the timeline or anything else.

jmo

I agree it probably doesn't fit this case but I'm not just seeing an obvious motive to rule anything out at this point.

 

[Inthedetails]

How does that make them good fathers? (Not being sarcastic, just not sure what you mean)

Perhaps "attentive" would be better than "good." Some parents are active parents because they like how it looks and how it reflects back on them, especially (and maybe only) with high-achieving kids who are perceived as high-achievers because of parenting, ykwim?

As a former soccer mom, I saw this happening. Star players with their "star" parents who really didn't seem to connect with the child except as a display. Of course, I could be misinterpreting. My kids were strong players on their sports teams...but I was often bored at the games and practices, lol! (I was not a star soccer mom.)

jmo