CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[Hatch]

Was PF or any of his known associates a pilot ?

 

[Irmese]

Possible motive:
Perhaps KB was dating other people.

No evidence to support this.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I can’t tell exactly how close a vehicle on Kelsey’s parking pad could get to the front door. I imagine pretty close, especially if one were to back up, say, a pickup truck, and carry out a suitcase or duffle bag a few feet to the bed. A 110lb person could be fit into a suitcase and if it was late at night over a holiday weekend and the person was in and out of her house within 2 minutes, the likelihood of being seen would be low, IMO.

absolutely. Didn't the person in the other townhouse said she was gone for the weekend? If so, there was no one to hear someone banging about in the adjoining space.

The property appears to be fenced with a sidewalk back to an entrance halfway on the townhouse. In the wee hours on a long holiday weekend, I suspect he was able to come and go without anyone noticing.

Removing her from her home was perhaps easier than the drive through town to get to a remote area.

I wonder if the streets have any webcams that caught his vehicle out and about in strange hours? If there are webcams in various areas, it could have taken a good while for LE to go through all the footage.

It will be interesting to see just what LE has.

 

[MsBetsy]

Cinnamon rolls ???....Hint, hint, hint.

I just made them myself and my daughter is already on her third one.

 

[Irmese]

Iirc, keep in mind that the only time we have heard the septic tank being mentioned was speculation here on these threads. I don't recall it being ever mentioned by law enforcement, nor have I seen it mentioned in the media. Moo

ITA. It seems LE would check drains and traps rather than taking a septic tank, and I'm pretty sure a septic tank being hauled out would have been noticed, as well as a honey wagon.

ETA MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

if there were ceiling tiles they could have been removed as well. unlikely in residential tho.

I posted these photos before of KB's townhome on the night of Thursday 12/20. The blue light in the window is likely the blacklight/Wood'sLamp used with luminol. From the zillow.com interior photos, I think that is the dining room or kitchen area window, and I could be all wrong about yhe floorplan. Photos from twitter of reporter Dougherty:

No lights:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du6WQEDWwAEyE_j?format=jpg&name=240x240

Normal lights:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du6fdn1UUAAxWVw?format=jpg&name=large

Blacklight to see fluorescense with luminol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du6FwgAXQAEXWqW?format=jpg&name=240x240

LE seemed to have some difficulty locating the actual crime scene. I don't think there was a great deal of blood all over, but it is of course possible. LE asked the fire dept. for a ladder and LE was seen removing large, flat, square pieces wrapped in brown bags.

Just a theory: in the kitchen/dining area, bludgeoning to the head, with something like a hammer. Spatter and tissue flew up high on the kitchen cabinets, walls and ceilings, but not a great deal of it. Maybe on top of the cabinets.

I don't think she was dismembered.

 

[susiQ]

Why does Kelsey have to be the bad guy? He could have had a NK! Why is everyone victim blaming in this thread!

I totally agree. It is unlikely that KB would even have time to engage in another relationship. She was working full-time and when not working she was most likely wanting to spend time with her baby. Even if she knew her relationship with PF was a no go, why run right into something else? After separating from a passive aggressive control freak, it took me three years before I would even consider going on a date. I wasn't looking for anyone. I needed to recover from 13 years of emotional abuse. After year three, I had an offer but turned him down, gently. When he asked a year later, I took him up on it and we've been married for 24 years now.
I'm still inclined to think it was more likely PF needed to get rid of KB so he could move on, if he hadn't already.

 

[CuriousCricket]

WhimsicalWillow said: ↑
Possible motive:
Perhaps KB was dating other people.

No evidence to support this.

Actually, the police chief (as I recall) replied to a question concerning that at the press conference. He said they had found no evidence of another man in her life.

 

[moonlessnight]

it sounds as if she may have lived in the home with PF and his mom for a while and then moved out and got her own permanent place. at least that's is a possibility based on the report that she got her own place bc PF lived with his mom.

I agree with your first praragraph that at the time of baby’s birth, she likely would have included the name.

But I do suspect the relationship may have been rocky or on and off for some time. It will be interesting to hear what comes out.

 

[Inthedetails]

I totally agree. It is unlikely that KB would even have time to engage in another relationship. She was working full-time and when not working she was most likely wanting to spend time with her baby. Even if she knew her relationship with PF was a no go, why run right into something else? After separating from a passive aggressive control freak, it took me three years before I would even consider going on a date. I wasn't looking for anyone. I needed to recover from 13 years of emotional abuse. After year three, I had an offer but turned him down, gently. When he asked a year later, I took him up on it and we've been married for 24 years now.
I'm still inclined to think it was more likely PF needed to get rid of KB so he could move on, if he hadn't already.

I agree with all of this.

I honestly don't think Kelsey had any time for any other relationship.

 

[moonlessnight]

for real. it's been 4.5 years for me and I have NO intention or interest in dating. CANNOT trust and have NO time or energy for BS.

but, he didn't need to kill her to move on. He needed to punish her permanently, and to maintain appearances by having FT custody of the baby.

I totally agree. It is unlikely that KB would even have time to engage in another relationship. She was working full-time and when not working she was most likely wanting to spend time with her baby. Even if she knew her relationship with PF was a no go, why run right into something else? After separating from a passive aggressive control freak, it took me three years before I would even consider going on a date. I wasn't looking for anyone. I needed to recover from 13 years of emotional abuse. After year three, I had an offer but turned him down, gently. When he asked a year later, I took him up on it and we've been married for 24 years now.
I'm still inclined to think it was more likely PF needed to get rid of KB so he could move on, if he hadn't already.

 

[Charlot123]

I’m dropping in between cooking (hosting family pj party this evening) to see if there are any new leads, so while I may not comment much, I’m reading.
I suspect LE has either her phone and/or person(s) who took it to Idaho (Knowingly? Unknowingly?) JMO
I agree with poster on dismemberment theory-I just don’t see a body being taken from apt without raising neighbors’ eyebrows. Smaller bags would be less conspicuous. Again, JMO.
Back to cooking!

The reason I would disagree is because it would create a lot of traces.

The reason I would agree is simply because one might take the hell of a chance to leave the body in the house and come back later. Imagine this, he takes the carrier with the kid out, leaves, and the neighbor who saw the car gets a bad vibe - some people do - or merely wants to borrow a little bit of flour for own rolls, and rings the bell on the door, or just watches the house and sees that no one got out and the lights are not on after darkness. She knows someone was in the house, and the cars are there! The moment she calls the police, PF is done. So he had to remove the body ASAP.

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree. Although strangulation is most likely statistically, I get the feeling of a gunshot to the back of the head. in the latter, there would be more evidence, and if it was the hired "gun" so to speak, a gunshot is more likely. strangulation is an intimacy/power method of murder. but I think the body was removed immediately and was gone by the 23rd. I still wonder if the baby witnessed it, or did PF remove the baby first, knowing what was about to happen. In order for KB to allow PF to take the baby from her house if this were not the scheduled exchange, she would have had to have been incapacitated, which the baby may have seen. KB may have been restrained and watched PF take the baby, leaving KB with her unknown killer. how absolutely horrifying.

The reason I would disagree is because it would create a lot of traces.

The reason I would agree is simply because one might take the hell of a chance to leave the body in the house and come back later. Imagine this, he takes the carrier with the kid out, leaves, and the neighbor who saw the car gets a bad vibe - some people do - or merely wants to borrow a little bit of flour for own rolls, and rings the bell on the door, or just watches the house and sees that no one got out and the lights are not on after darkness. She knows someone was in the house, and the cars are there! The moment she calls the police, PF is done. So he had to remove the body ASAP.

 

[Charlot123]

WhimsicalWillow said: ↑
Possible motive:
Perhaps KB was dating other people.


Actually, the police chief (as I recall) replied to a question concerning that at the press conference. He said they had found no evidence of another man in her life.

It does not even matter...

Psychologically, I would have felt better if she moved on because the fact that she trusted him is so sad, but it is irrelevant. What is relevant, PF planned it, and killed the mother of his baby in some horrible way, and conspired, too, and staged KB’s disappearance, all this time looking into the eyes of the baby that Kelsey bore to him. Having deprived his child of the mother. He is a horrible human being.

 

[Loulu]

Possible motive:
Perhaps KB was dating other people.
PF, being the primary caregiver during the week, might not have been able to handle the fact that KB would have the baby on the weekends and possibly bring the baby around a new boyfriend.

Perhaps PF was a jealous man that couldn’t take the fact that KB could spend time on weekends with the baby and a new boyfriend and saddle PF with the baby all week while she enjoyed her successful career.

A man that plotted his wife’s murder (and a gruesome one) doesn’t seem like he’d be loving enough to care about a one year old baby. He deprived the baby of his mother and now, of himself, due to his own selfishness, jealousy, and possible sociopathy.

I agree with MassGuy’s theory that he dismembered her. I also believe LE knows she is dead from discovering her blood via using luminol in her home.

PF seemed like an ANGRY man. Telling reporters “Get off my property!” and STEWING in the car while a reporter questioned him at the window. PF couldn’t put on “a good show” of concern for his missing wife. He hated KB enough that he was happy to sacrifice his reputation by appearing as an arrogant jerk in the public eye.

He hated KB so much that he didn’t care that his demeanor caused LE to be even more suspicious of him.

IMO, He hated her enough to likely spill her blood all over the home and possibly slaughter her like cattle (my theory only).

I think he is a true sociopath.

I do not wish good things for PF and Monster Watts in prison.

I agree with so much of this. I don’t believe someone who has the capacity to do what we believe he has done, has the capacity to love anyone. I think it was more of that he was finished with her and she was a nuisance. Sadly.

 

[Seenit]

Iirc, keep in mind that the only time we have heard the septic tank being mentioned was speculation here on these threads. I don't recall it being ever mentioned by law enforcement, nor have I seen it mentioned in the media. Moo

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[allboys]

I do, if he did it in the bathtub, which is pretty standard practice as those things go.

I’m trying to make sense of the banging during the last search.

Drywall or flooring is the most likely, but if they were removing plumbing, that would be a telltale sign.

I saw something being removed that seemed very thin, but appeared to have weight. Like a bathroom mirror. But being non-porous, I’m not sure they would have removed something like that?

*Edited to remove accidental multi-quote.

 

[srg]

How does that make them good fathers? (Not being sarcastic, just not sure what you mean)

Depending on level of narcissism, the closer a person is to meeting full criteria for NPD (DSM dx) they typically view the child) or anyone actually) as significant extension of themselves and would care mostly as long as it benefits their image of “perfect parent.”

 

[MyBelle]

Possible motive:
Perhaps KB was dating other people.
PF, being the primary caregiver during the week, might not have been able to handle the fact that KB would have the baby on the weekends and possibly bring the baby around a new boyfriend.

Perhaps PF was a jealous man that couldn’t take the fact that KB could spend time on weekends with the baby and a new boyfriend and saddle PF with the baby all week while she enjoyed her successful career.

A man that plotted his wife’s murder (and a gruesome one) doesn’t seem like he’d be loving enough to care about a one year old baby. He deprived the baby of his mother and now, of himself, due to his own selfishness, jealousy, and possible sociopathy.

I agree with MassGuy’s theory that he dismembered her. I also believe LE knows she is dead from discovering her blood via using luminol in her home.

PF seemed like an ANGRY man. Telling reporters “Get off my property!” and STEWING in the car while a reporter questioned him at the window. PF couldn’t put on “a good show” of concern for his missing wife. He hated KB enough that he was happy to sacrifice his reputation by appearing as an arrogant jerk in the public eye.

He hated KB so much that he didn’t care that his demeanor caused LE to be even more suspicious of him.

IMO, He hated her enough to likely spill her blood all over the home and possibly slaughter her like cattle (my theory only).

I think he is a true sociopath.

I do not wish good things for PF and Monster Watts in prison.

I don't believe KB was dating other people. I think she did love PF or she wouldn't have put herself through a daily 70-mile commute. For whatever reason, PF is incapable of loving in return. JMO

 

[calo44]

absolutely. Didn't the person in the other townhouse said she was gone for the weekend? If so, there was no one to hear someone banging about in the adjoining space.

The property appears to be fenced with a sidewalk back to an entrance halfway on the townhouse. In the wee hours on a long holiday weekend, I suspect he was able to come and go without anyone noticing.

Removing her from her home was perhaps easier than the drive through town to get to a remote area.

I wonder if the streets have any webcams that caught his vehicle out and about in strange hours? If there are webcams in various areas, it could have taken a good while for LE to go through all the footage.

It will be interesting to see just what LE has.

That’s a good point; I wonder if they have collected any video evidence of vehicles in and around her house on Thanksgiving evening.