CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[CuriousCricket]

Perhaps she left her door unlocked when she picked up groceries.

They were two years into a relationship. Wouldn't he have most likely had his own key?

And if they were doing joint custody, wouldn't the baby's clothing and supplies been in both homes? Maybe she had a favorite stuffed animal or blanket that went back and forth with her, but I'd think it would be easier for them all to have supplies in both locations.

 

[Gardener1850]

Maybe she didn't want to worry her mother and tried to make it seem like everything was ok.

But what would her real plans have been for a 4 day weekend? She mentioned plans with PF for Thanksgiving dinner and she mentioned decorating for Christmas and PF possibly getting a tree. Why would she call her mom twice and talk casually about upcoming plans including PF if she was trying to hide a break up from her mom? That requires outright lying and deception on KB's part, not just withholding info from her mom. As an adult I have withheld info from my parents before when I wasn't ready to tell them something but I would avoid lying to them outright. And KB was very close to her mom. She's a pilot with access to private planes. She could have been in her home state for Thanksgiving day if she wanted to. It doesn't make any sense for her to lie. But it makes a heap of sense of PF to lie and say they broke up. He has a strong motive to lie-- to try to explain why he was unconcerned about her disappearing. MOO.

 

[tmar]

I agree but something made LE go back and look in more detail.

What I never understood is how did her brother who lives in Washington State know there was nothing missing from her place.
Did he go there often, if this happened to me no one walking into my house would really know what was missing or not aside looking for my purse, keys or phone.

I agree 'The Farm' that coming into a relative's home, if not there a few days beforehand, it would be difficult to conclude if things were altered, items missing.
I am forever moving even furniture about, obtaining large items from cupboards, leaving them out etc.
MOO.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I haven't seen where she walked to Safeway. Why would she have the baby in a car seat?

She was already lugging a 15-month old baby and would be adding groceries . . . nah, she wasn't walking and then carrying everything.

The blanket could have been because the car was not fully warmed up when they left home and she pulled the baby from the car into the ourdoors, then back inside. I would have been keeping my baby's legs covered, too.

 

[MsBetsy]

Never had kids so maybe someone can answer this. Why (and I am not being sarcastic/mean) are we discussing "why did she bring the baby's blanket inside the store"? What does it indicate other than the obvious, "because she was cold". Suddenly I'm reminded of the chicken crossing the road. Please help me to understand why it is peculiar to bring a blanket along....

It's not, although I missed the beginning of the conversation. I think every one is different. I never bundled my baby up unless it was very cold. But I knew many mom's who overdressed their kids or who bundled them up in blankets wherever they went. So I don't think it's uncommon. Imo

 

[jillianelaine]

How does forcing a theory help us figure out what happened here?

I could come up with dozens of semi plausible ones, probably hundreds if they weren’t fact based.

My dad taught me the harder you work, the luckier you get. (My father didn't live long enough to see what the stock market did the past 45 days) Generating ideas sometimes jars something based on fact, that might move us closer to finding an answer. Like today when I put two and two together and concluded with a fair amount of certainty that KB told her mother about day and evening plans. This convinces me that PF wanted a time block to both execute and dispose of her. And it provided him an opportunity to be away from his family.. Still Mass Guy,, I completely agree with what you said. To force a theory in and of itself is not finding truth.

 

[Gardener1850]

that story was all for PF - to pacify and appease him so he wouldn't hurt the baby, and so maybe he would let CB see the baby.

Huh? Are you saying CB was lying in her media interviews? I agree she might have avoided saying anything bad about PF but I doubt she lied about the contents of her recent conversations with KB. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Huh? Are you saying CB was lying in her media interviews? I agree she might have avoided saying anything bad about PF but I doubt she lied about the contents of her recent conversations with KB. JMO.

Agreed. She may have withheld some things, but I don’t think she outright lied, even if she had good reason to.

 

[Mercedes]

Judge says Berreth's parents will get custody of child

SABBM from above:
According to new documents released Friday morning, Senior Deputy District Attorney Jennifer Viehman, on behalf of the people of Colorado, objected to unsealing the arrest warrant before Patrick Frazee is formally charged, which is scheduled to take place Monday morning.
In the motion, Viehman said she believes that the disclosure of the information from the warrant could “seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation.”

_______________________

Anybody else thinking these "potential witnesses" may be giving evidence r/t the solicitation to murder charge?
*ETA: It's interesting that the DA's office thinks the safety of witnesses is in jeopardy given that PF is in custody. Nobody else has been charged (yet).
So who poses a physical threat to witnesses, I wonder...thoughts?

Someone or someones who don’t want these witnesses around to give testimony against PF.

 

[CuriousCricket]

With all this "solicitation" and "protecting witnesses" and blah, blah, blah.... I wonder if he had reason to, and was dumb enough to photograph the crime scene (with one of the other phones) for someone else to see. And that photo ultimately ended up with LE.

Well, it has been done in the past and it seems like something that he just might do.

 

[The Saint]

I thought that KB, herself, told one of her female relatives (cousin or aunt) that she had broken up with PF the day before Thanksgiving.

 

[tmar]

I know a family whose mother was murdered by the father in the next room. It was a violent murder and they were aware of what was happening. They are being raised by their maternal grandmother who is a warm and wonderful person. The murder was about 5 years ago. Those kids have received such love and support from their mother's side of the family that if you didn't know the situation, you would never guess what had happened to them. 2 of the children were tots but one was in school. I'm sure that they still have residual effects, but the power of love is very healing. I think Kelsey's side of the family would provide that kind of live and healing.

Thanks Nan, for that delightful story.
This evidence, with love around these kids, has helped them enormously, is so good to hear.
The Berreth's family would devote their love and care for this little girl.

Similar to my pets from Shelters.
After a little while, with love and attention, I watch these little ones transformed into lovable, devoted pets.
Sometimes, to my detriment, as I now don't wish to leave them even if it is for a little while, when entering stores.
Yep, they wait for me at the door at home or in the car on cool days, so pleased on my return.

 

[WildWest]

Please help me to understand why it is peculiar to bring a blanket along....

It's not peculiar here. Rather the norm.

 

[Nudgee]

I’ve said from the beginning, watch the cinnamon buns be the key to it all

I agree.... I've mentioned before that I think she made those cinnamon rolls for her killer/s. I think she knew her killer/s and expected them in her home that morning. I also think she got a call that morning where killer/s said they would be coming over. JMO based on her going to the grocery store that morning.

 

[Gardener1850]

I thought that KB, herself, told one of her female relatives (cousin or aunt) that she had broken up with PF the day before Thanksgiving.

No, we don't know where the aunt got that info. It might have come from PF.

 

[scdiv]

I thought that KB, herself, told one of her female relatives (cousin or aunt) that she had broken up with PF the day before Thanksgiving.

The aunt, but imo the aunt was only repeating what the family had been told by PF.

 

[MassGuy]

Well, it has been done in the past and it seems like something that he just might do.

I’ve disputed this before. We see photos taken by serial killers and (sometimes) hitmen.

PF wanted Kelsey out of the picture. He wouldn’t have taken a photograph that he would later use in order to derive some sort of satisfaction.

This was business, not pleasure.

A photograph would have potentially implicated himself in a crime as well.

There is a certain panic that tends to overcome most first time killers (except for pure sociopaths or psychopaths), that doesn’t lend itself to stopping to take a picture.

 

[Mercedes]

That's a good catch on the document saying that "disclosure of information at this junction may seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation." (BBM)

That implies a whole lot more than just jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation, colluding on evidence, prejudicing potential jury members, etc etc. Mentioning physical harm or threat is a whole other level. Who did he solicit to do this and why???? This case is the biggest mystery to me.

Wonder if one or more of the witnesses has received a threat?

 

[The Saint]

I agree.... I've mentioned before that I think she made those cinnamon rolls for her killer/s. I think she knew her killer/s and expected them in her home that morning. I also think she got a call that morning where killer/s said they would be coming over. JMO based on her going to the grocery store that morning.

Then that would mean that it wouldn't have been a date. He would have been someone she didn't get all glammed up for if
her mom thinks her hair wasn't fixed as nice as normal.

 

[CrimeAddict]

omg no news today