CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

As recent as Dec 15 he had add up for cattle to be sold. Was he anticipating his arrest? It was on a FB post and I am not sure how to link it here complete with date and picture.

I believe this FB account and cattle for sale add was deemed a hoax account including stock photo. This was discussed a couple threads ago.

 

[MyBelle]

Yeah, it’s not like police and the prosecution ever get it wrong. Since they’re always right 100% of the time, we should assume the defendant is guilty unless and until he can PROVE himself innocent. And we should hope PF is railroaded throughout this process because who cares? He must have done it or else he wouldn’t be in this position. And while we know next to nothing about his family, they must be toxic and dysfunctional. If they were a good family, this wouldn’t have happened to them. The product of a good home would never do something like this or if they do, it’s somebody else’s family, not mine. This sort of thing is never going to happen to me or mine because we were raised better. Constitution, schmonstitution. You don’t need to assert your rights if you’re a law-abiding citizen!

Right? Does that sound good? Not to me, it doesn’t. (In case anyone missed it, the above was sarcasm.). JMO

In this case, there was a considerable period of time between KB reported missing and the arrest of PF. Multiple law enforcement agencies have been involved. Evidence was collected. Nothing about this case smacks of railroading. Far from it.

PF doesn't need to be railroaded because the evidence will prove his guilt, imo. No different than the Tibbetts or Watts cases. Of that, I have absolutely no doubt. Nobody in his family expressed one ounce of concern for Kelsey's safety, nobody reported her missing nor did they spend any time whatsoever searching for her. They didn't encourage PF to allow the maternal grandmother to see the child or interact with her. Their inability to express human compassion toward the mother and grandmother of their own biological family member has nothing to do with our Constitution.

JMO

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

She is young enough to have little memory of this upheaval in her life.
Sad that she'll miss hearing her mother's voice as she grows up. There'll be a void for sure..
Hoping she'll be loved !

I would disagree with this causing baby K little memory of upheaval. She will live with this always. No matter your age, you are effected. It is a terrible situation for all involved, especially baby K!

 

[Mom24]

As recent as Dec 15 he had add up for cattle to be sold. Was he anticipating his arrest? It was on a FB post and I am not sure how to link it here complete with date and picture.

I think that ad was found to be a fake. Someone trolling.

 

[Hatch]

I believe this FB account and cattle for sale add was deemed a hoax account including stock photo. This was discussed a couple threads ago.

I believe you are correct ! My bad and it is after 2:00 Am

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Whether the nurse knew at the time about the phone, or was in any way knowingly involved with it's disposal, I think the key is when police were notified. I'd say every moment that went by from the time it began being reported that KB was missing, until she notified police of what she knew, is an additional indication of the level of her involvement. Once she knew that the wife of someone she was very involved with was missing, she should have been on the phone to the police, if not earlier.

 

[LietKynes]

I would disagree with this causing baby K little memory of upheaval. She will live with this always. No matter your age, you are effected. It is a terrible situation for all involved, especially baby K!

NP, CMO3 --- I respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts.

I should explain what I meant was that she won't remember the two of them possibly arguing and even worse-- what happened to her mom.

But you are right--- she will grow up without a mom to see her off on her first day of kindergarten and when she needs someone to talk to-- her mom won't be there.

So disgusting and selfish of PF. ( I struggle calling him her 'dad')

 

[gitana1]

Looking back on how all of this unfolded, maybe you hit on the reasoning: to get the baby away from the media and turmoil by placing her with CB. That would be in the baby's best interest.

SW executed for 3 days at SF/PF ranchette Fri-Sat-Sun 12/14-15-16

5 LE cars went charging back up to the ranchette iirc Mon 12/17

PF and 2 men went to WM iirc Tues 12/18

PF arrested Fri 12/21
baby removed Fri 12/21

The atmosphere was a circus there with all the media attention. I bet they were camped out near SF's home and hounding her for an interview, phone ringing off the hook. DHS would have no way to know when the circus will abate, so far removal does seem best.

BTW it does not escape my attention that DA May specifically stated that his office would not try the criminal case in the media .... then his office fought to have cameras in the courtroom, fought against a pre-trial gag order, continues to parade PF before the media for each appearance. j/s

How is the DA in charge or how the defendant is transported to and from hearings?

 

[Lhughessk]

Snipped for brevity:

PF is described as "a recluse" by the neighbors. It is sometimes hard to understand how these people think because it is very difficult for them to express their feelings in words

There appear to be conflicting reports on the “recluse” label:

“Several of Frazee’s friends and clients told CNN that he was well known and liked in the community and was a good father to daughter Kaylee.”

https://www.fox6now.com/2019/01/03/investigators-believe-idaho-woman-disposed-phone-of-colorado-mom-allegedly-killed-by-her-fiance/

 

[MyBelle]

I think it is a given that the baby is very much loved. The baby was NOT placed "suddenly" nor is the placement at all surprising. I doubt CB initiated it. Good grief, the media had been asking about the baby's welfare for days. The child also seems to have had a GAL appointed and it is likely that is who consulted with the state and recommended placement with the maternal family. Nothing about it surprises me in a case that involves murder conspiracy and multiple people. JMO

 

[Lhughessk]

No one has said they hope he gets railroaded.

No one has said that law enforcement or the prosecution always gets it right.

We are not on a jury, and we are free to decide what we think of him, and the case against him.

I think he’s done.

No one said we were on a jury, or that we weren’t free to decide what we think of him.

You can be of the opinion that he’s done, but that’s very limited as far as informed opinions go. There is so little that we actually know right now.

A lot of people thought Mary Winkler was done when she shot her husband in the back with a shotgun and then took off for the beach with her kids. The kids were taken from her and placed with the paternal grandparents, and everyone thought they knew how it would end. A few short years later, she gets time served and is free, and in less than a year she won full custody of her kids back from the grandparents.

So, just pointing out that sometimes we think we know how it’s going to go, and we turn out to be wrong.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, and we also don’t know what PF might have told his family regarding KB’s family. What if he, in an attempt to get them firmly in his corner, fed them a story about KB’s family being terrible people?

But even if that didn’t happen, it’s generally a problem in these circumstances to let the other side of the family see the child without some sort of legal ruling in place, of which there was none before now. If the two sides had met and CB had decided to run to the car and take off with K, there would have been nothing that SF could have done about it (I’m not saying CB would have done such a thing).

I think CB recognized the complication. In one of her TV interviews pre-arrest, remember how she was asked if she was going to try to see K, and after a long pause she said, “I don’t know.” If she was advised that a custody hearing was the best way to go, then there may have been little or no contact between the two sides to even make an attempt. Folks need to remember the time frame we’re talking about here. She reported KB missing on Dec. 2. Within the month, she had a custody hearing and was granted temporary custody. That isn’t a very long period of time to be “kept” from seeing the child.

BBM. What on earth are you talking about? CB couldn't abduct the child and abscond with her because PF has parental rights and CB had no custodial rights whatsoever. She was granted temporary custody because the State wanted her to have temporary custody because it is in the best interest of the child. This isn't all that complicated. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

BBM. What on earth are you talking about? CB couldn't abduct the child and abscond with her because SF has parental rights and CB had no custodial rights whatsoever. She was granted temporary custody because the State wanted her to have temporary custody because it is in the best interest of the child. This isn't all that complicated. JMO

Huh? IMO, both SF and CB are grandparents, and therefore SF would not have superior parental rights over CB rights.

 

[MassGuy]

No one said we were on a jury, or that we weren’t free to decide what we think of him.

You can be of the opinion that he’s done, but that’s very limited as far as informed opinions go. There is so little that we actually know right now.

A lot of people thought Mary Winkler was done when she shot her husband in the back with a shotgun and then took off for the beach with her kids. The kids were taken from her and placed with the paternal grandparents, and everyone thought they knew how it would end. A few short years later, she gets time served and is free, and in less than a year she won full custody of her kids back from the grandparents.

So, just pointing out that sometimes we think we know how it’s going to go, and we turn out to be wrong.

I know that he made three attempts to solicit a would-be killer.

I know that he attempted to misdirect the investigation with Kelsey’s phone.

I know that he didn’t report her missing.

I know they have evidence that she is dead.

I am fully confident that they have strong evidence that he killed her, as I’ve rarely (if ever) seen a “no body” murder case move this fast in regards to an arrest.

I am also confident that there will be people involved in this, criminally or not, who will testify against him.

He had the motive (whatever that is), the means, and the opportunity to do this, and I have no doubt that he did.

My question at this point, is who else is involved, and what is their level of culpability?

I’m not a psychic, but I’ve seen this movie before, and I know how it ends.

He’s leaving prison in a body bag.

 

[MyBelle]

No one said we were on a jury, or that we weren’t free to decide what we think of him.

You can be of the opinion that he’s done, but that’s very limited as far as informed opinions go. There is so little that we actually know right now.

A lot of people thought Mary Winkler was done when she shot her husband in the back with a shotgun and then took off for the beach with her kids. The kids were taken from her and placed with the paternal grandparents, and everyone thought they knew how it would end. A few short years later, she gets time served and is free, and in less than a year she won full custody of her kids back from the grandparents.

So, just pointing out that sometimes we think we know how it’s going to go, and we turn out to be wrong.

And more often, the posters on this forum turn out to be right. Case in point, Chris Watts. I actually waited for his guilt to be proved, I was in the EXTREME minority and his guilt was proved beyond a doubt: he confessed and is exactly where he should be.

Mary Winkler raised a self-defense strategy. There is not a whit of evidence in this case that even hints of self-defense. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Huh? IMO, both SF and CB are grandparents, and therefore SF would not have parental rights over CB.

Neither grandparent has parental rights. There is now an appointed GAL and the State has legal custody and CB has physical custody. I'm not going to second-guess their decision.

 

[MassGuy]

And more often, the posters on this forum turn out to be right. Case in point, Chris Watts. I actually waited for his guilt to be proved, I was in the EXTREME minority and his guilt was proved beyond a doubt: he confessed and is exactly where he should be.

Mary Winkler raised a self-defense strategy. There is not a whit of evidence in this case that even hints of self-defense. JMO

Ha! “I was so scared of Kelsey, that over a period of months, I made repeated attempts to have someone kill her for me.”

Go ahead and try that one, PF.

 

[Lhughessk]

Then logically the answer would be to never arrest anyone and throw out the baby and the bathwater because of a lack of perfection. When in actuality, based on the number of unsolved murder, missing and unidentified victims and a judicial system that is more intent on protecting perpetrators of crimes rather than its victims, I'd say not only does a person have to be proven guilty but proven beyond a preponderance of a doubt is unbelievable standard that in actuality lends to more criminals getting free than being incarcerated and far outscoring those few who get wrongly convicted. From my standpoint the railroading happens to victims more often than their predators.
And yes dysfunctional families lead to dysfunctional people, that's the nurture part of what's missing in those dysfunctional families that lead to a higher tendency for criminal activity, especially such a heinous act as killing and taking the life of another human being. To put it bluntly there's more than something off in a person's upbringing if he can't feel empathy for another human being because when someone kills another human being they are essentially killing themselves.
And finally, at last count, I don't recall taking another person's life or at the very least showing such disregard for the safety and well being of the mother of one's child who was missing for 10 days, a constitutional right. But maybe I missed that amendment in the bill of rights?

You think guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is “an unbelievable standard”? Wow, I don’t even know how to respond to that. And will respectfully disagree with your statement about the legal system being more intent on protecting perpetrators.

 

[Lhughessk]

BBM. What on earth are you talking about? CB couldn't abduct the child and abscond with her because PF has parental rights and CB had no custodial rights whatsoever. She was granted temporary custody because the State wanted her to have temporary custody because it is in the best interest of the child. This isn't all that complicated. JMO

It’s more complicated than what you just said, for sure. PF was in jail. I was talking about the assertion some have made that his side of the family “kept” the Bs from seeing K even after arrest. The issue of who should have K was not settled and so it wasn’t a great idea to let someone on the other side of the family see or visit the child, given the situation. I think any legal adviser would have taken that position when talking to the Bs or the Ks. And yes, someone could have refused to relinquish K and it would have been a problem that a responding police officer would not have been able to solve. They would have shrugged and said, “This is a civil matter”. So that’s why you go to court and get custody established there first.

 

[MyBelle]

Ha! “I was so scared of Kelsey, that over a period of months, I made repeated attempts to have someone kill her for me.”

Go ahead and try that one, PF.

PF is arrogant enough to try it. He seems to be do focused on not repeating CW's stupid mistakes, I've wondered if he buried KB on some abandoned oil property.