CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #24 *ARREST*

[Snow Flower]

Anyone know where "the BIG HOUSE" PF will wind up?(Hopefully, Fingers crossed!) From what I have seen, the Teller County Jail looks no bigger than my post office.

Anyone know where "the BIG HOUSE" PF will wind up?(Hopefully, Fingers crossed!) From what I have seen, the Teller County Jail looks no bigger than my post office.

There are maximum security prisons in Canon City Colorado. Don’t know, of course, but that would be a guess.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, I do agree someone provided info “the walls were washed with bleach, then polished with Orange Glo” or something very specific. Moo. I don’t think LE cut drywall or furniture at random.

If a lot of clean up was performed, is it possible someone parked elsewhere, another day, & walked in?

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if PF returned to the house at a later point, and performed cleanup work.

He must have done a pretty decent job, as the family and law enforcement apparently saw no signs of violence during earlier visits to the house.

 

[Mom24]

I think a swift blow to the head, chest, back, or legs to incapacitate her, then strangulation or smothering. Jmo

Whatever it was, I'm fairly certain it was up close and personal. These domestics situations typically are.

 

[Trudie]

BBM
Cannot fathom there is on ounce of financial motivation by Berreth either. Period.

Likewise. Idk his financial situation. Does anyone here?
If I lived with a parent, I’d have a lot of excess disposable income.
Is it presumed he’s “poor” because he chose to live with his mom? Idk.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If it was obvious, they certainly would have.

My feeling is that they were given specific locations to search by someone who is talking.

Locations that either weren’t looked at closely during the initial search, or ones that required some work in order to examine.

Something like plumbing, under flooring, or an elevated location.

I don’t think it was a coincidence that immediately following this final search, law enforcement said that this was now a murder investigation, and Kelsey was killed in her home.

Eeeek get out of my brain MassGuy LOL

 

[Trudie]

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if PF returned to the house at a later point, and performed cleanup work.

He must have done a pretty decent job, as the family and law enforcement apparently saw no signs of violence during earlier visits to the house.

Exactly. Presumably no one bolted from the house screaming “it smells like Pine Sol, K hated Pine Sol, something is wrong”. Moo
So I say a very “neat” crime.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Sometimes I have to remind myself of what we do know to keep my speculation at bay.

The IN, unless she decided to go on the spur of the moment to WP, had to know what was going to happen.

According to what we know PF was shopping around for someone to kill KB since September 2018.

The murder was Thanksgiving Day. According to LE.

If you know someone is coming to visit you on a certain day you don't pick that day to murder someone UNLESS the person is in on it. So for those who think KK just took the phone and didn’t participate further I don’t think the facts support that theory. IF it was a crime of passion maybe I could lean towards that theory. BUT looking for, solicitating, someone for 3 months sounds like he (they) preplanned it.

KK is up to her cowgirl boots in this situation . JMO

Well said.

 

[Charlot123]

Although, and I hate to say it, ashes and bone fragments over the Falls. Difficult to recover MOO

Horrible to even think of it, but this is my feeling, too. On the other hand, it is a touristy place. People might notice. Possibly, closer.

 

[kath4557]

If her folks had a life policy on Kelsey, they may have set up some type of beneficiary agreement for little KB and PF may have thought he could get his hands on that too. For the life of me I can't believe that he really thought he could get away with this.

I'm sure they all believe themselves to be smarter than the last guy who got caught.

 

[MassGuy]

Likewise. Idk his financial situation. Does anyone here?
If I lived with a parent, I’d have a lot of excess disposable income.
Is it presumed he’s “poor” because he chose to live with his mom? Idk.

This is unknowable at this point.

It obviously depends on how much money he was making, and what his expenses were.

Just because he may not have had certain living expenses, doesn’t mean he was rolling in cash.

 

[Trudie]

Well LE didn’t arrest PF until after searching KBs townhouse and coming out with brown paper bags. They found bodily fluids there,for sure, to arrive at the conclusion that’s where she died. KK being an RN might have not been as squeamish with some aspects of whatever happened in there. I don’t think they are actively looking for the body because of something they found in that home that may of convinced them they wouldn’t need to. JMO based of the fact that nobody is organizing search parties, etc. I wonder if KB knew of KK or if it was a complete surprise to her that there was another woman involved with KB. Speculation

Idk what they found. Again, if a person in the loop told LE where to look, they had to VERIFY his/her info. Return to the scene & start collecting evidence. They can’t merely take the word of another. Moo

 

[LAHOLLA]

BBM
Cannot fathom there is on ounce of financial motivation by Berreth either. Period.

No, I definitely don’t think they care about financial gain- just wondered if it was a way to prevent PF from gathering the funds to hire private counsel.

 

[InvSmith]

Is anyone CLEAR on where P received the baby?
Did K deliver to him, did he go to K’s or did he meet her in a parking lot?
I have been unable to determine the location. Tysm

In the media, two stories by PF were related 1) KB was to drop the child off and 2) he was to come by to pick her up. One third scenario would have been Thanksgiving together but that didn't not seem like a plan. For people outside of the US, Thanksgiving is a very big family dinner day. A lot of cooking, eating, family, football watching, and visiting. It is a very family-oriented day. LE has stated the PF does place himself as the last person to see KB. KB's townhome is approximately fifteen miles from PF's mother's property.

 

[riolove77]

I am not a lawyer. My first assumption is, yes, the meaning is, what he did was horribly inhumane, and she was a human.

However, the wording also sounds like...as if...his duty was to protect her, and she was, in a way, vulnerable?

Generally when we speak of a class to which a victim belongs, and that class being protected by said law, we are speaking in terms of negligence per se; this is legal speak for the negligence being presumed and not needing to be further proved. IIRC, the civil suit seems to have negligence per se as a claim the Berreths are making?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Likewise. Idk his financial situation. Does anyone here?
If I lived with a parent, I’d have a lot of excess disposable income.
Is it presumed he’s “poor” because he chose to live with his mom? Idk.

No way to know about his financials, he didn't appear to raking in the money, but IDK. He seemed content to live at home with Momma F and playing cowboy. I think his real interest lie in playing the role. JMO

 

[Trudie]

This is unknowable at this point.

It obviously depends on how much money he was making, and what his expenses were.

Just because he may not have had certain living expenses, doesn’t mean he was rolling in cash.

I agree. Nor does it mean he’s dirt poor. IMO
I doubt K gave him money. Jmo

 

[The Saint]

I think, like most busy women, she rushed to the store before tending to her normal “beauty protocol”. After the store, she MAY have intended to do her hair & makeup.
Perhaps she was out or low of something for the baby & it was a “must go now” moment.
With her mom so far away she prob wasn’t aware of K going out w/o looking absolutely perfect. But, she still looked perfect to me.

Maybe she ran to Safeway and then came back and jumped in the shower.
It was when she was in the shower, that PF and/or the killer(s) ambushed her.

Crime scene investigators removed some big pieces from her house. One
appeared to be a big curved piece that could have come from her shower.

IMO

 

[LovesPeace2]

Was it reported that he spent nights at her place after Thanksgiving but before she was reported missing I wonder if that's when he did clean up

 

[MsBetsy]

A spokesperson for St. Luke's said the nurse is currently on administrative leave and that the hospital is "fulfilling its legal obligations" with police requests. The details of those police requests are presently unknown.
Authorities investigating Idaho nurse allegedly associated with Kelsey Berreth’s fiance
So they must be digging into her timecard, schedule, interviewing co-workers etc. She is definitely a POI in this crime. Sounds like protective custody isn't what's going on as some have suggested. I think she's talking.

Couldnt she be talking and still be in protective custody? I don't see why not. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

Generally when we speak of a class to which a victim belongs, and that class being protected by said law, we are speaking in terms of negligence per se; this is legal speak for the negligence being presumed and not needing to be further proved. IIRC, the civil suit seems to have negligence per se as a claim the Berreths are making?

Yes.

Kelsey Berreth’s parents file civil lawsuit vs. Patrick Frazee
The causes of action include wrongful death, negligence per se, civil conspiracy and intentional infliction of emotional distress.