CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #24 *ARREST*

[moonlessnight]

if PF is ordered to pay a large sum, he may need help from his family's finances.

PF's family wouldn't have to pay a dime. They aren't being sued - only PF. This suit, in no way affects PF's mother nor PF's sister that are intervening in the custody fight.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I think that KB communicated with her mom constantly. I’m certain her mother knew a ton of info about her plans for thanksgiving down to why she ran to the store. It’s even possible that KB spoke of IN to her mom and perhaps why she broke off the engagement or was planning to. There is so much communication and evidence that LE is sifting that when this story comes to light by way of a trial, or plea, it will blow our socks off. MOO

 

[Trudie]

You know what looks strange? Judging by the thoroughness of the cleaning PF performed, he comes across as somewhat obsessive-compulsive. (Cleaning is exactly the part that he did the best). It would be strange for such a type to leave edibles on the table.

Maybe the murderer or clean up person did make the rolls to have an aroma of fresh baked goods in the home. Idk.
To mask Clorox, perhaps.

 

[Trudie]

if PF is ordered to pay a large sum, he may need help from his family's finances.

Idk how his family might be responsible for his debt. Should there be a debt to satisfy. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

You know what looks strange? Judging by the thoroughness of the cleaning PF performed, he comes across as somewhat obsessive-compulsive. (Cleaning is exactly the part that he did the best). It would be strange for such a type to leave edibles on the table.

I don’t think that’s an indication of him being “obsessive compulsive.”

After he killed her, his life and freedom were on the line.

He had all the motivation in the world to clean up the crime scene, no matter if he exhibited this behavior in the past or not.

He may have simply forgotten about those cinnamon rolls, as the cleanup of blood was his number one priority.

 

[Nudgee]

Something I remember from the beginning of the case. KB's mother mentioned her looking very different from her usual self that morning in Safeway - no makeup, hair not done her usual way.

While KB might have simply been tired in the morning, I wonder if she was scared by someone/went to Safeway against her own will. Then, this lack of typical for her grooming might have been a possible signal.

Maybe these cinnamon rolls were left out intentionally. Or, there was something odd about the recipe, was it for nonexistent dish, or something KB already knew how to make?

Or was she not expecting “company” that day, then got a phone call (likely from PF) that he AND someone else were going to be coming over to her place so she threw her hair up in a bun/ponytail/whatever and ran to Safeway to get items to entertain. I’ve done that so many times. Unexpected company, run to the grocery store, grab a few items, etc! I’ll bet just about everyone of us girls have done that....

 

[Jethro4WS]

I wonder if they are trying to get him to talk? His lawyer can certainly notify him if she was arrested or not.. if he thinks she's talking or is under question and she hasn't been arrested, maybe he'll be tempted to talk or turn on her thinking she is turning on him?

Well, if hypothetically she knows something, is talking, and is turning on him then the Colorado DA doesn't need anything from PF. PF talking at that point doesn't get him any better of a situation and actually makes it worse.

That said, so many of the activities by law enforcement and leaks to the media seem aimed at trying to get PF to talk - and that gives me the nagging suspicion that the DA does not have a very strong case.

 

[Esma]

I want to see what the circumstances were. She may have been a victim as well. Her close relatives lived in the same town as PF. He may have threatened to harm them if she said a peep to LE about anything. We dont know what the situation was.

But what if she had no idea what he was planning to do? And she was sitting out in the truck when he committed the murder? He could easily blackmail and intimidate her, making her a victim of the crime too.

I may be totally wrong. But at this point, I see her more as a victim that a killer. JMO

I don't think she's a killer, but I have a hunch she is no victim either.

 

[Lhughessk]

As one of the verified attorneys asked, how can you bring a civil suit for murder, if the victim has not yet been declared dead. I think that might be one issue here.

They obviously think that as time goes on, there will be compelling evidence of her death. Perhaps also a confession and plea deal. They don’t have to wait for that to happen before starting the civil lawsuit.

 

[SaranWrapPetunia]

Something I remember from the beginning of the case. KB's mother mentioned her looking very different from her usual self that morning in Safeway - no makeup, hair not done her usual way.

While KB might have simply been tired in the morning, I wonder if she was scared by someone/went to Safeway against her own will. Then, this lack of typical for her grooming might have been a possible signal.

Maybe these cinnamon rolls were left out intentionally. Or, there was something odd about the recipe, was it for nonexistent dish, or something KB already knew how to make?

I'm thinking KB's mum's comments mentioning how she looked different in the video than normal was only to help the public to identify her in a search. Meaning KB would more often look like the photo provided, with her hair down, etc. MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

I think I may have read it wrong as it was worded that she" disposed of the dead woman" and the word phone was on another line in a weirdly structured paragraph.

I don't remember seeing that. Can you link it for us, please?
MOO

 

[riolove77]

Yes.

Kelsey Berreth’s parents file civil lawsuit vs. Patrick Frazee
The causes of action include wrongful death, negligence per se, civil conspiracy and intentional infliction of emotional distress.

I haven't read through it yet, Pom, but since I know you prob have it memorized, is it true that they claimed $75,000 in damages? Not $75,000.01?? I'm asking for jurisdiction purposes.

 

[moonlessnight]

that's what I thought of NK (CW case) until I heard her police interviews and saw her emails and google searches in the discovery. Not saying it'll be the same in this case, but apparently it happens that the mistress provides major impetus for the murder.

I want to see what the circumstances were. She may have been a victim as well. Her close relatives lived in the same town as PF. He may have threatened to harm them if she said a peep to LE about anything. We dont know what the situation was.

But what if she had no idea what he was planning to do? And she was sitting out in the truck when he committed the murder? He could easily blackmail and intimidate her, making her a victim of the crime too.

I may be totally wrong. But at this point, I see her more as a victim that a killer. JMO

 

[SandyQLS]

Yes, I do agree someone provided info “the walls were washed with bleach, then polished with Orange Glo” or something very specific. Moo. I don’t think LE cut drywall or furniture at random.

If a lot of clean up was performed, is it possible someone parked elsewhere, another day, & walked in?

I wonder about the fireplace inside the townhome. It's one thing to clean drywall, even a ceiling, or linoleum, bathroom tiles or tub, even most kitchen cabinets. But the upper fireplace is wood, the lower is stone. I don't know how completely wood could ever be cleaned of blood spatter or tissue. Maybe they needed a ladder to reach the upper area.

 

[Trudie]

Or was she not expecting “company” that day, then got a phone call (likely from PF) that he AND someone else were going to be coming over to her place so she threw her hair up in a bun/ponytail/whatever and ran to Safeway to get items to entertain. I’ve done that so many times. Unexpected company, run to the grocery store, grab a few items, etc! I’ll bet just about everyone of us girls have done that....

.....and pray we see no one we know.
Maybe something the baby needed or, she did not want to deal with the holiday crowds the next day.

 

[KBB87]

if PF is ordered to pay a large sum, he may need help from his family's finances.

They wouldn’t be liable for any damages he’s ordered to pay. If he doesn’t have the money then they just go unpaid.

Edited for clarity

 

[Trudie]

I wonder about the fireplace inside the townhome. It's one thing to clean drywall, even a ceiling, or linoleum, bathroom tiles or tub, even most kitchen cabinets. But the upper fireplace is wood, the lower is stone. I don't know how completely wood could ever be cleaned of blood spatter or tissue. Maybe they needed a ladder to reach the upper area.

I think the wood cleans easier than the porous stone. Jmo
This place is very small, it’d be difficult to escape or fight back, IMO. If an intruder was hiding & jumped from behind a door or something, I’d trip as I tried to flee.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Let’s take just a moment to review what’s been revealed so far.

PF has been arrested and charged. Abbreviated, but 1st degree murder and 3 counts of solicitation. THREE counts.

IN has been revealed. KB’s phone texts/pings came from Idaho. It is alleged/suspected that she disposed of KB’s phone. LE has gone to extreme lengths to protect her identity?

TWO people accompanied PF to the dump. WHO were those two people? Where are those two people? Why aren’t we discussing those two people?

IN + Two “Dump People” = THREE

Coincidence? Somebody is talking. Who aren’t we hearing about? Why?

Edited to add MOO MOO MOO

 

[riolove77]

could this be wording under Colorado domestic violence laws? as an intimate partner PF had a duty to not engage in intimate partner violence. There are DV enhancers in Colorado for criminal charges - maybe this is a way to enhance the civil case.

All four of the Berreth family suit claims are civil claims. I don't know what it might be, but it's a statute that has been enacted to preserve some right of a class of humans, and she belongs to this class, whether just as a human or if its more specific than that I don't know. By killing her, he violated that statute and is negligent per se.

 

[Irmese]

Gotcha! I'm not sure about what is allowed for those who are farriers. It may have to be obtained and administered by a veterinarian.

It is illegal for farriers to administer tranquilizers, but it is known to happen.