CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #24 *ARREST*

[marchioness96]

I do wonder though is the “sensitive evidence” being transported from Idaho to CO might just be bone fragments or ashes. Forensics might tell the whole story if they do find fragments or blood anywhere and I think they did.

That's exactly the type of "sensitive evidence" that I thought of when they first announced that. And I can't help but think of the Tim Bosma case (which happened right near me) and the use of an incinerator . I'm pretty sure the idea of an incinerator was discussed a few threads back, but I can't remember if it was decided that PF was likely to have one or not. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory!

 

[PommyMommy]

I haven't read through it yet, Pom, but since I know you prob have it memorized, is it true that they claimed $75,000 in damages? Not $75,000.01?? I'm asking for jurisdiction purposes.

IIRC, exceeding the amount of $75,000. Let me look. BRB

ETA:
7. Jurisdiction is proper within the United States District Court for the District of
Colorado pursuant to 28 USCS § 1332 in that:
a. the matter in controversy exceeds the sum or value of $ 75,000, exclusive of
interest and costs, and
b. is between citizens of different States.

 

[marchioness96]

I do wonder though is the “sensitive evidence” being transported from Idaho to CO might just be bone fragments or ashes. Forensics might tell the whole story if they do find fragments or blood anywhere and I think they did.

That's exactly the type of "sensitive evidence" that I thought of when they first announced that. And I can't help but think of the Tim Bosma case (which happened right near me) and the use of an incinerator . I'm pretty sure the idea of an incinerator was discussed a few threads back, but I can't remember if it was decided that PF was likely to have one or not. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory!

 

[riolove77]

Tysm for this, Rio.
How unusual would it be to delay the arrest of a cooperating suspect? A person that poses no menace to anyone else? Tysm

That's definitely a case by case basis. My personal feeling is she knows more than we think, but since we know nothing about her, her level of involvement could be anywhere from "I found the phone in my belongings when I got home, didn't think anything of it, and threw it out when it wouldn't turn on" to full on involved in the planning, execution, and cover up. If it was the latter, I feel she would most certainly have been locked up by now. So it's got to be on that spectrum somewhere, but lesser than completely involved. At least that's my opinion.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I'm not quite sure how to quote a post from an earlier thread (there is no quote link that I see anymore) but I've included the image below from @PommyMommy 's post in #23-61.

Question: Is paragraph 21 in the image below just a legal way of saying that KB is/was a citizen of the State of Colorado? Or could it imply something more? Phrases like "breached the duty of care" in paragraph 20 almost seem to imply a special legal relationship of some sort between the two. MOO, but I'm guessing it's just the necessarily exacting legalese that states she is covered by the laws of Colorado. Thoughts? I've never seen a document like this before...

https://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-18-criminal-cod
Looked it up and found this.

 

[The Saint]

One if the verified attorneys said in the last thread it would be illegal during the criminal investigation. Also if CB is a witness in the criminal trial, and certain details indicate she will be, LE cannot share anything with her. JMO they can ask for everything after the criminal trial.

*
ETA: Read PrairieWind's concerns last thread pages 57-61. This below is post#1129 page 57 thread#23:

"The prosecutor can have NO involvement with this civil case. If they were it could seriously jeopardize the criminal case. I bet this is a total surprise to the prosecutors."

Could @PrairieWind clarify her previous post for us?
I think that there have been wrongful death suits running simultaneously with murder investigations. Is it that Prairie wind meant that the prosecutors can't try both cases as they represent the State of CO?

It is confusing though. I understand the point about CB being a witness
in the murder trial and whether she should have access to the criminal investigation.

I don't know what the deadline is for filing a wrongful death in CO.
Perhaps, the Berreth's filed the wrongful as a psych ops move to put pressure on PF.

Fred Goldman filed the wrongful death against OJ after he was acquitted because they wanted him to be found guilty of murdering Ron
in a court of law rather than seeking financial gain. I don't the Goldmans have been able to collect much money from OJ.
imo

imo

 

[SaranWrapPetunia]

Likewise. Idk his financial situation. Does anyone here?
If I lived with a parent, I’d have a lot of excess disposable income.
Is it presumed he’s “poor” because he chose to live with his mom? Idk.

He could very well be supporting his mum; buying groceries, paying bills, taxes, etc. MOO

 

[Lhughessk]

Maybe the murderer or clean up person did make the rolls to have an aroma of fresh baked goods in the home. Idk.
To mask Clorox, perhaps.

I’m pretty sure that the cinnamon bun aroma would have gone away by the time anybody else went in that house, which was a week or more later. And if cinnamon buns can overpower bleach at all, I want that recipe!

 

[Irmese]

PF certainly had access to animal tranquilizers, so the nurse didn't really have to supply him with anything. Give her the shot and push her over the balcony. IMHO.

Very possible.

 

[SoVeryMe]

I don’t think that’s an indication of him being “obsessive compulsive.”

After he killed her, his life and freedom were on the line.

He had all the motivation in the world to clean up the crime scene, no matter if he exhibited this behavior in the past or not.

He may have simply forgotten about those cinnamon rolls, as the cleanup of blood was his number one priority.

I agree, I’m more inclined to believe that he cleaned up what was necessary and left everything else untouched, as is. He wasn’t looking to stage anything at this point.

 

[riolove77]

As one of the verified attorneys asked, how can you bring a civil suit for murder, if the victim has not yet been declared dead. I think that might be one issue here.

It's not a civil suit for murder though; a wrongful death suit can be brought for any type of death inflicted by the responsible party. No malice necessary (though we know there was malice here obviously).

 

[Vandalay Industries]

Or was she not expecting “company” that day, then got a phone call (likely from PF) that he AND someone else were going to be coming over to her place so she threw her hair up in a bun/ponytail/whatever and ran to Safeway to get items to entertain. I’ve done that so many times. Unexpected company, run to the grocery store, grab a few items, etc! I’ll bet just about everyone of us girls have done that....

I, agree, this is something I would do.. ALTHOUGH, I am NOT sure I would do that for my ex-fiance and his new "whatever" she was... ESPECIALLY knowing they were coming to pick up my child. If that is what was happening..

 

[Trudie]

Let’s take just a moment to review what’s been revealed so far.

PF has been arrested and charged. Abbreviated, but 1st degree murder and 3 counts of solicitation. THREE counts.

IN has been revealed. KB’s phone texts/pings came from Idaho. It is alleged/suspected that she disposed of KB’s phone. LE has gone to extreme lengths to protect her identity?

TWO people accompanied PF to the dump. WHO were those two people? Where are those two people? Why aren’t we discussing those two people?

IN + Two “Dump People” = THREE

Coincidence? Somebody is talking. Who aren’t we hearing about? Why?

Edited to add MOO MOO MOO

Are the two men that went to the dump POI?

 

[SandyQLS]

Generally when we speak of a class to which a victim belongs, and that class being protected by said law, we are speaking in terms of negligence per se; this is legal speak for the negligence being presumed and not needing to be further proved. IIRC, the civil suit seems to have negligence per se as a claim the Berreths are making?

If someone is talking, maybe an accomplice was given a key, or the location of a hidden key. I think the wording relates to the felony murder/robbery theory, that PF set KB up to be robbed. Some of the other words seem to simply mean a class of person as victim of a crime? Wow - you're a lawyer and you have questions!? lol

 

[moonlessnight]

totally agree. CB's first interview was so scripted for the safety of the baby. She knew so much more IMO. I am so impressed by how LE handled this entire thing and how well CB got through the beginning of the unimaginable.

I think that KB communicated with her mom constantly. I’m certain her mother knew a ton of info about her plans for thanksgiving down to why she ran to the store. It’s even possible that KB spoke of IN to her mom and perhaps why she broke off the engagement or was planning to. There is so much communication and evidence that LE is sifting that when this story comes to light by way of a trial, or plea, it will blow our socks off. MOO

 

[riolove77]

^^^That may or may not be credible.

But what if she did so at gunpoint herself?


What if she was sitting out in the truck with the baby, thinking her bf was inside having an argument with his ex? And she had no idea he was killing her?

Then he comes outside, is acting crazy, and she suddenly realizes what is going on? Maybe he was desperate and angry and began threatening her and her children's safety. If he just killed the mother of his child, could she be next? ESPECIALLY because she was a witness to him being there.


"Helping" dispose of the body might just mean she was trapped by circumstances and was forced to go along with him out of fear of retribution. A valid fear, most likely.

How would this explain then being 1200 miles away from him three days later and continuing to text on the phone and then dispose of it, rather than going to LE?

 

[SoVeryMe]

Let’s take just a moment to review what’s been revealed so far.

PF has been arrested and charged. Abbreviated, but 1st degree murder and 3 counts of solicitation. THREE counts.

IN has been revealed. KB’s phone texts/pings came from Idaho. It is alleged/suspected that she disposed of KB’s phone. LE has gone to extreme lengths to protect her identity?

TWO people accompanied PF to the dump. WHO were those two people? Where are those two people? Why aren’t we discussing those two people?

IN + Two “Dump People” = THREE

Coincidence? Somebody is talking. Who aren’t we hearing about? Why?

Edited to add MOO MOO MOO

Right....perhaps LE questioned the individuals who accompanied PF to the dump? Timing seems right.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think I may have read it wrong as it was worded that she" disposed of the dead woman" and the word phone was on another line in a weirdly structured paragraph.

Sounds like bad reporting.

Patrick Frazee gets access to affidavit with reason for murder charges
After we reported that a woman in Idaho was under investigation for potentially disposing of Berreth's cell phone, a prosecutor hinted that her involvement is on record in the affidavit.

 

[Nudgee]

Well, if hypothetically she knows something, is talking, and is turning on him then the Colorado DA doesn't need anything from PF. PF talking at that point doesn't get him any better of a situation and actually makes it worse.

That said, so many of the activities by law enforcement and leaks to the media seem aimed at trying to get PF to talk - and that gives me the nagging suspicion that the DA does not have a very strong case.

I tend to agree in that LE has a good understanding of who/what/where/ when and how things happened.... I disagree that don’t have a very strong case..... I just think they are extremely challenged at connecting the dots at this point..... they’ll get there, hopefully!

 

[riolove77]

I can't imagine whatever her involvement is that she would get off scott free. At least I hope not. A lesser charge, but not immunity if she had knowledge and didn't come forward?- only by a warrant was forced to. Knowledge of makes her an accomplice. Do people actually get complete immunity in 1st degree murder??

BBM. Just a legal lesson here, not relevant to this case I don't believe, but knowledge alone, without more, NEVER makes you an accomplice.