CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #26 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

I believe that they can prove that she was killed, and killed in her home.

Charging someone with murder is a big deal.

Charging someone with murder without a body, is a huge deal.

They would absolutely require compelling evidence to this effect, and the speed in which they charged PF in this, means that they almost certainly do.

Exactly, MassGuy, rarely do we see a homicide arrest precede the discovery of the victim's body, and 'no body' cases are even more rare, although I can think of 3 off the top of my head. In this case, the arrest occurred in less than a month. LE has some very convincing evidence, IMHO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Please beware of the packaging and flying monkeys!
Ted Bundy also had many friends, handsome, and charming. Narcs/sociopaths count on others being naive and unaware to begin grooming their targets. Most recently, everybody thought CW a great guy and model employee.

BBM @Seattle1
I think this should be a Public Service Announcement

 

[SandyQLS]

Where her body is may affect jurisdiction. Unless the prosecution can absolutely prove Kelsey was killed in her home - not something circumstantial to let a jury weigh - it opens the door that Kelsey was killed elsewhere and if she is found outside of Colorado that would cause Colorado to have to drop the murder charges. If, for example, her body is found in Idaho, and a medical examiner can't conclude she was killed in Idaho then what state has jurisdiction - Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, or Colorado - since she could have been killed (or finally died) in any of those. One thing for certain is that double jeopardy attaches once a jury is impaneled so things can get complicated if the evidence of Kelsey being killed in her home is not solid and she turns up in another state.

Maybe you just solved the riddle of why the B's used the federal court for their wrongful death civil suit instead of the CO civil court. Smart giraffe.

 

[mrstfs]

Exactly, MassGuy, rarely do we see a homicide arrest precede the discovery of the victim's body, and 'no body' cases are even more rare, although I can think of 3 off the top of my head. In this case, the arrest occurred in less than a month. LE has some very convincing evidence, IMHO.

Great point. the murderer of Julia Jacobson was arrested for murder with no body found a little over a month of her being missing. I recall people saying how rare that was.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I believe that they can prove that she was killed, and killed in her home.

Charging someone with murder is a big deal.

Charging someone with murder without a body, is a huge deal.

They would absolutely require compelling evidence to this effect, and the speed in which they charged PF in this, means that they almost certainly do.

We won't know what they have until it comes to court, the documents are released, or some leak occurs. But eventually we will find out. To file a no body case less than three weeks from reported missing suggests they have solid evidence but we don't know that for certain. It really could be the case that they have compelling evidence but not absolutely certain evidence and they are relying other evidence to make their case.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The amount of time that has elapsed at this point really leads me to believe only PF is involved in the day-of actions of the crime. There is just no way another principle to the murder has yet to be arrested.

We have solicitees talking and we have KK, who, if reports are accurate, can expect an accessory charge.

PF knows where she is. If any one of these people did, her location would’ve been revealed by now. Perhaps they’re narrowing down through the witnesses and their conversations with PF.

Thanks for weighing in RioLove

 

[MassGuy]

Exactly, MassGuy, rarely do we see a homicide arrest precede the discovery of the victim's body, and 'no body' cases are even more rare, although I can think of 3 off the top of my head. In this case, the arrest occurred in less than a month. LE has some very convincing evidence, IMHO.

Exactly. I’ve been following the Tyler Mook case quite closely, and it’s another no body situation.

There is a great deal of incriminating information there, and everyone knows he did it.

Unfortunately, they can’t find his ex wife’s body, and he has yet to be charged for that crime.

Fortunately he’s now serving a 12 year sentence for another attempted murder.

Drew Peterson, Josh Powell, no body sometimes means no charges.

 

[Trudie]

Yep...... I think they have a lot of small evidence and at least one big old snitch broke this case open....MOO

Absolutely. Otherwise, there’d be no solicitation charge. A solicited party had to divulge something verifiable to LE. Imo

 

[WildWest]

I wish mustloveco would consider coming back. Their posts were extremely helpful with local information.

@mustloveco we miss you

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree that isn't the case in this situation about an amber alert my response was in regards to the poster who thought the 'robbery' might be of the baby.

I'm not familiar with custody issues, but does anyone know if an unmarried couple has a dispute as to whether the child will go with them who has the final say if there isn't some type of custody agreement?

Yes! I have 15 years experience with this, at least in NY. The answer is, no-one has the final say. The parents are to work it out themselves. Law enforcement can only step in if there is a legal document stating who has visitation when. Without a court order, if the parents can't come to an agreement, one parent can take the child somewhere even if the other parent disagrees. That is one reason why it is so important to establish custody and set up some sort of structured visitation. Without it you can expect 18 years of arguments, emotions, and drama. Imo

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Could be. I still believe someone was in PFs truck at or near SW to alert him or “someone”when KB left the store, her direction, etc.
once she left SW there was no guarantee she would head straight home (or did). She might have went to a gas station, a drive thru, etc. Someone in her house would want to KNOW her eta. IMO
Phone records can easily reveal this to be the case, if it is.


Moo

So are you thinking then that PF and accomplice(s) set her up to go to Safeway then? For what purpose? Are you thinking someone was already in her home waiting to ambush or something along those lines?

 

[Trudie]

The amount of time that has elapsed at this point really leads me to believe only PF is involved in the day-of actions of the crime. There is just no way another principle to the murder has yet to be arrested.

We have solicitees talking and we have KK, who, if reports are accurate, can expect an accessory charge.

PF knows where she is. If any one of these people did, her location would’ve been revealed by now. Perhaps they’re narrowing down through the witnesses and their conversations with PF.

Could someone be arrested under other charges or in a dif’ county? In my county there’s a man incarcerated on dui/reckless driving/resisting arrest. A few weeks later, attempted murder of a police officer was added to his charges. Tysm

 

[K9Enzo]

I'm going to speculate that this was not a "messy" crime scene. With a huge blood clean up, as an example. I say this based of LE believing she was murdered in her home. These were townhomes close together. Gun shots would have been heard. "silencers" don't sound like people think they sound.

I believe he may have strangled her. This would not have happened fast but he was probably strong enough to do it. I don't believe she was given anything to "knock her out" either.

When the family was insistent that her home looked normal, nothing was out of place, with the exception of her phone and purse being gone. I think this held a lot of weight with LE in the first days following her officially being reported missing.

LE however found something, but it was after they went back and really looked again. Maybe even bringing in a new set of eyes.

 

[tmar]

We don't know for sure. Everything is speculation at this point. We know there is likely some connection to KB's phone, but beyond that, ???? I personally believe she was involved on several levels; I have full faith LE will complete the puzzle and we will know more in the coming weeks.

It is early morning here at present.
Each morning, I expect a bomb shell/breaking news.
Surely it will occur before Feb 19.

 

[Seattle1]

I have a question about the dump too. Do we know it was PF's trash that was being dumped? Apologies if my memory has failed me here, but couldn't he have just been along for the ride with two guys dumping their trash? Or maybe they all combined a trailer load of trash? How do we know whose trash it was?
MOO

If I recall correctly, PF hauled the trailer to dump/transfer station and sat inside his vehicle while 2 others that arrived at station separately unloaded the trailer. It's never been reported what was dumped or who owned the rubbish but by late night/early morning hours, LE returned to SF's previously searched property following up their search again.

MOO

 

[riolove77]

Could someone be arrested under other charges or in a dif’ county? In my county there’s a man incarcerated on dui/reckless driving/resisting arrest. A few weeks later, attempted murder of a police officer was added to his charges. Tysm

Oh definitely.

 

[allboys]

IMO, PF had many good qualities or women would not have found him attractive, he would have few friends, etc.
I think if he were an ugly, hideous ****, KB would not have been remotely interested in him. Nor would a rodeo queen. Jmo

A wolf in sheep’s clothing.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not true. In Colorado you can put any last name you want on the birth certificate. Also, when reporters asked the Police chief in the press conference on 12/14 about whether they were pursuing removing the child from PF he said they were looking into it. By then they would have pulled vital records and it is certain that not only was his name on the birth certificate but there was an affidavit of paternity signed by him and Kelsey as well. If that were not the case child services would have taken the child sooner and he would not be a party automatically to the custody hearings that were on-going. He would have had to take court action on his own (via his attorneys) to make him a party to the case and would have to pursue an order for a paternity test. None of this is taking place like that so it is certain he is listed as the father on the birth certificate and there is a affidavit of paternity.

The same is true in NY. A mother can list anyone as being the father, even if she has no idea if he is or not.
And she can give any last name she wants. But the father does have to sign the birth certificate in order to be legally acknowledged as the father. Imo

 

[Trudie]

So are you thinking then that PF and accomplice(s) set her up to go to Safeway then? For what purpose? Are you thinking someone was already in her home waiting to ambush or something along those lines?

I do think it possible someone was in her home, yes. That they may have been dropped off when she left for the store.
Idk, just a theory. Maybe PF was dropped off & someone drove his truck to SafeWay to watch.
Otherwise, I can’t fathom LE withholding the video of her leaving the store. I think KB approaching her vehicle would have provided a better image of her. It would take a moment to get to her car, load her baby & items.

In all honesty, maybe he did drive her to the store. We don’t know. LE would know (from surveillance) if he did. If he told them he only went to pick kid up, they knew he was lying.

There’s endless possibilities.

 

[MyBelle]

It might be hard to prove that he took the child by force. Since there was no court order to prove that was not his visitation time there would be no document to back that up. I can't imagine an Amber Alert being issued in that type of situation. Imo

It would be in a state that shows a bias toward the unmarried mother but I don't believe CO is in that group. JMO