CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #27 *ARREST*

[skyedaze]

Here is a hypothetical scenario.... A visibly upset woman tells her boss that her friend was asked to commit a murder. The boss says, wow this lady is visibly upset, maybe it's nothing, but maybe it's not nothing and I should not ignore it. Boss says have her call me. No call comes in so boss asks about it, is told oh it wasn't really anything. This doesn't sit well with the boss, since the employee had been "visibly upset" when it was first reported. So boss notifies LE and gives employee's info. LE looks talks to the employee, employee tries to minimize it, tells LE it was a joke/misunderstanding, etc. Still, LE wants to chat with the BFF if that's ok, all nicey nice like. They talk to KK, who assures them it was a joke. Even if it goes no further, KK is spooked, PF catches wind, gets spooked, and realizes he has no chance of getting away with it. Then maybe it ends without baby K losing her mama. Maybe LE even contacts KB and asks if she has any reason to fear for her safety, and SHE gets spooked and maybe doesn't let her guard down around PF anymore. Maybe a report with minimal info wouldn't have helped, but WHAT IF IT HAD???? A daughter/sister/mother/loved one is dead. Maybe speaking up could have saved her. MOO

Exactly my feeling. But sadly, it didn't go that ways from what we are hearing. Thanks for putting that into words.

 

[zecats]

They may not have connected the dots until after the crime was committed. Do we know the date that they informed LE? Maybe it was as soon as the news broke out. For all we know it may be they who led LE to KK in the first place, in which case LE would never had gotten this far in the investigation. Imo

As I recall, this case was slow to develop. Even here on WS. I remember in the beginning checking and not much was going on, not much was posted. Perhaps all were for of in limbo those 10 days before her mom became involved and it eventually went national.

It sure has taken off since then, and that's been a good thing because more publicity the better.

 

[Trudie]

Surprised or didn't think he was serious. If she thought he was serious at all, she should have gone to LE and not her BFF. JMO

I wonder if KK was obsessed with the idea, unable to think of little else & confided to see how her bestie would react.
All of us have been preoccupied with an issue, at some point, I THINK. We can’t sleep, focus or think other thoughts. Even a trite problem has the ability to consume us. Imagine aiding or plotting in murder of a beautiful, young woman, for no reason. If 11-22ish was in the works, I’d think KK was running on adrenaline. Moo

 

[riolove77]

Question for the lawyers on this thread: @Mercedes, @gitana1, @PrairieWind, @riolove77, if any of you are here right now, I'm thinking that KK's friend's testimony wouldn't be admissible in PF's trial since it was KK who told her about the solicitation, i.e., it would be considered hearsay, is that correct?

It would be great if LE could use the friend's testimony as that would mean they might not need KK to make their case against PF.

I'm just highly dubious that the friend could testify in court re: what KK told her...at least, not in PF's trial.

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule.

For example, the statement couldn’t be used to prove the fact of the matter asserted; I.e. that PF had asked KK to kill KB. But, it could potentially be used in what we call a SOM (state of mind) exception, or used for the non hearsay purpose of showing KK’s reaction to the request. These types of uses are contrary to the definition of hearsay.

There are federal rules of evidence and CO has its own too. Naturally depends on where this ends up tried, but I’m fairly certain it will be tried in state court. I’m not familiar with their variations on state rules, I practice in California. But generally, they are similar.

 

[jewelsmac]

Along with your question, what is it about KK that makes PF think she’s the appropriate person to solicit to commit murder of KB???

* I am just now catching up on threads, so apologies if I’m asking something that’s already been asked or if this MSM article isn’t even accurate. I have a lot of reading left to do.

Perhaps that she has some devotion to him, and he only has that for himself. If you are going drag someone into this, wouldnt you pick someone you know would do anything for you? But also someone that you don't care enough about to keep them out of it. JMO

 

[skyedaze]

They did check in with their employee. This employee told the couple that KK had said to forget about it.

ok

 

[oviedo]

Here is a hypothetical scenario.... A visibly upset woman tells her boss that her friend was asked to commit a murder. The boss says, wow this lady is visibly upset, maybe it's nothing, but maybe it's not nothing and I should not ignore it. Boss says have her call me. No call comes in so boss asks about it, is told oh it wasn't really anything. This doesn't sit well with the boss, since the employee had been "visibly upset" when it was first reported. So boss notifies LE and gives employee's info. LE looks talks to the employee, employee tries to minimize it, tells LE it was a joke/misunderstanding, etc. Still, LE wants to chat with the BFF if that's ok, all nicey nice like. They talk to KK, who assures them it was a joke. Even if it goes no further, KK is spooked, PF catches wind, gets spooked, and realizes he has no chance of getting away with it. Then maybe it ends without baby K losing her mama. Maybe LE even contacts KB and asks if she has any reason to fear for her safety, and SHE gets spooked and maybe doesn't let her guard down around PF anymore. Maybe a report with minimal info wouldn't have helped, but WHAT IF IT HAD???? A daughter/sister/mother/loved one is dead. Maybe speaking up could have saved her. MOO

Yes someone could have said something

 

[riolove77]

I'm assuming in light of all the information coming out that KK will eventually be added to the civil trial, but do you think her friend might get named as well?

I think that might be a reach.

 

[Trudie]

Yea. Interesting that they are waiting until Sunday with a hot ticket news story

Wonder if they are verifying facts OR they anticipate adding to the story. As in they have a tip things are about to change?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The friend angrily defended KK in a fb group and had beef with the admin. The harrassment ensued from there.

Respectfully stated:
Did she identify herself as a law office employee with whom KK had confided she was solicited to kill Kelsey? Then we don't know that was her.

I think this woman was threatened by KK and not the FB trolls. I can't see her defending KK after KK didn't go to the police.

When the FBI showed up to ask her about being solicited to kill Kelsey, KK immediately knew who snitched on her man Patrick. KK had to be scared and furious at her bff.

 

[MassGuy]

Here is a hypothetical scenario.... A visibly upset woman tells her boss that her friend was asked to commit a murder. The boss says, wow this lady is visibly upset, maybe it's nothing, but maybe it's not nothing and I should not ignore it. Boss says have her call me. No call comes in so boss asks about it, is told oh it wasn't really anything. This doesn't sit well with the boss, since the employee had been "visibly upset" when it was first reported. So boss notifies LE and gives employee's info. LE looks talks to the employee, employee tries to minimize it, tells LE it was a joke/misunderstanding, etc. Still, LE wants to chat with the BFF if that's ok, all nicey nice like. They talk to KK, who assures them it was a joke. Even if it goes no further, KK is spooked, PF catches wind, gets spooked, and realizes he has no chance of getting away with it. Then maybe it ends without baby K losing her mama. Maybe LE even contacts KB and asks if she has any reason to fear for her safety, and SHE gets spooked and maybe doesn't let her guard down around PF anymore. Maybe a report with minimal info wouldn't have helped, but WHAT IF IT HAD???? A daughter/sister/mother/loved one is dead. Maybe speaking up could have saved her. MOO

This is certainly possible, but there was a much easier way that this crime could have been prevented.

All KK had to do, was go to law enforcement.

She could have done it on the first solicitation, or even after the second or third.

She had plenty of opportunities.

Instead, it appears that not only did she not go to LE, she apparently decided to participate in this crime.

The majority of the blame lies with PF, the rest of the blame falls on KK.

Time will tell how involved she was.

 

[Wagtales10]

This case has so many people trying to input false information.
For example, look at very early threads when people where trying to say KB ran off and had a drug problem. Those accounts havent posted since Dec 21. We were infiltrated.

 

[oviedo]

The friend angrily defended KK in a fb group and had beef with the admin. The harrassment ensued from there.

What???how can she defend someone who was aware of a plot to kill kB and actually told her employer of this plot? And yet defend KK ? Now I’m really puzzled about what went on really

 

[Snow Flower]

From what I gather from the televised interview KK DID consider PF her boyfriend. She used that specific word to her BFF. You can just bet PF was lying to KK about what a “w” itch KB was. He had to give her some excuse for wanting KB out of his life. The truth will come out in this situation, it always does, probably when KK realizes PF didn’t really care about her either. I have always found momma’s boys to be very manipulative. They learned early how to wrap momma around their little finger. JMO.

 

[Trudie]

I think that might be a reach.

@riolove77

Had the “friend” alerted police, they interviewed KK, she denied or claimed her friend misunderstood, really nothing could have been done, right?
Other than maybe scaring KK & aborting any plan?
Tysm

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I think most lawyers know at least a few local LE folks, especially in such a small community. It wouldn't have been hard for this atty. to pick up the phone, or text, or email someone just to pass along the info. that he was aware of. Depending on how upset his employee was, he may, or may not, have thought it prudent, especially since KK never called or came by to talk to him about it. In hindsight, I bet he wished he had sounded at least a small alarm.

Remember though, this was over two states. And all the information these people had (as far as we know) was a first name. So all they knew was some guy named Patrick in Colorado was spouting off about his baby momma, followed by....oh don’t worry about it. I don’t think we can fault the Rs. IMHO.

 

[Trudie]

I don't think he is innocent and haven't from day one. An innocent person just doesn't act the way PF has acted from the beginning. Yes, it sounds like he involved KK, but he put the plan in motion.

I also don't give KK a pass, nobody can MAKE anybody go anything. If she chose to help, that was her choice. If so, she is just as culpable as he is in my eyes. JMO

I am guessing his lawyer considers him a dream client. Jmo

 

[GordianKnot]

There are exceptions to the hearsay rule.

For example, the statement couldn’t be used to prove the fact of the matter asserted; I.e. that PF had asked KK to kill KB. But, it could potentially be used in what we call a SOM (state of mind) exception, or used for the non hearsay purpose of showing KK’s reaction to the request. These types of uses are contrary to the definition of hearsay.

There are federal rules of evidence and CO has its own too. Naturally depends on where this ends up tried, but I’m fairly certain it will be tried in state court. I’m not familiar with their variations on state rules, I practice in California. But generally, they are similar.

BBM: Best news I've heard all night! Thank you so much for your response, Rio! That's very encouraging to hear!

 

[Trudie]

Maybe she’s the witness that needed protecting

Touché! Because KK is on the loose, imo.

 

[Ccging]

These people heard second hand information from an employee.

This employee was later told by KK, not to worry about it.

They asked for KK to communicate with them, but she never did.

It is only in retrospect that they realize that it’s possible they could have done something, but I can’t fault them for how they played this, based on what they knew at the time.

As soon as they thought they had information to share, they did the right thing.

Agree 100%!