CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

And all is quiet on the MassGuy front. He must be celebrating the Pats victory.

Hey, allboys, yes, unusual, it's been a while since we've heard from him. Hey, @MassGuy, you are missed here in KB's thread, but congratulations on your team's big win today!

 

[Mercedes]

RSABBMBMFF:
I do think that the fact KB bought her own place without PF's involvement/investment is a strong indicator that the relationship had at least cooled to some extent. Certainly, there's nothing that supports the idea that marriage between the two was imminent. IMO, it's a mighty long engagement for a couple that already shared a child and where one of them at least had the resources to support a family home.
I haven't read anywhere that they had set a wedding date.
I haven't read anywhere that she had an engagement ring.
Their "engagement" seems a little nebulous.

I have wondered about PF's intentions r/t living on the ranchette.
Curious to know whether or not PF lived somewhere else at any point in his life, i.e., if he ever moved away initially after finishing school and then came back to the ranchette later on to (ostensibly) help mother.

If he's never moved away from mother and the umbilical chord has remained firmly intact, then I do think he may have planned to stay there forever. He may have a rigid personality type that just can't deal with changes or disruptions to his routines. Then again, he "moved KB out there" and had a baby with her, which posed definite changes in his routine. Hard to say. It's just flat weird. Coloring within the lines of TOS, with that, I'll put my crayons down.

All of the above: JMO.

Ha Ha, “finishing school.”

I strongly suspect his mother was domineering and put at least some pressure on him to stay with her. No woman was ever going to be good enough for her son, and she didn’t want to share him anyway. The F family dynamics were dysfunctional as hell. Unfortunately, Kelsey paid the price.

 

[Mercedes]

If we don't get news of another arrest or KB's remains being located soon, we run the risk of finding ourselves sitting around speculating about what the meaning of is is.

Save yourself the time, just ask Bill.

 

[Hatch]

delete no link to info

 

[TheVic]

And why was that? Was it solely because he confessed? Well, we sure know that is never going to happen here. Unfortunately.

No. He didn't even fully confess IMO. We all knew he was guilty from the very beginning. His body language and horrible his nonexistent skills at telling lies made him transparent.

 

[Mercedes]

It has happened before. A suspect will tell the DA where the body is, with the promise that the DA will not use that information against him in court.

So the body will be found, but the jury wouldn’t hear what directed law enforcement to it.

But I agree, that’s extremely unlikely here. I don’t see this guy ever divulging that information.

IMO, he doesn’t have any incentive.

 

[Hatch]

IMO, he doesn’t have any incentive.

Could it be possible he does not know where Kelsey's body is ? Maybe he has very good friends that did disposal besides KK, if he had a couple guy friends take care of it he could pass a poly when asked do you know where Kelsey Berreth is ?

 

[riolove77]

Thanks for clarifying, rio. If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is the DA's office could have kept their powder dry r/t the Murder 1 charge if they felt like they didn't have enough proof that she's dead, and just brought the solicitation charges against him, is that right?

Without her body, they must have a lot of corroborative evidence that she is in fact dead, then.

JMO.

Correct. Exactly - they know she’s dead.

 

[MassGuy]

IMO, he doesn’t have any incentive.

No. I don’t see one either.

Good point, I guess I can remove him from my list of potential talkers.

 

[MassGuy]

Could it be possible he does not know where Kelsey's body is ? Maybe he has very good friends that did disposal besides KK, if he had a couple guy friends take care of it he could pass a poly when asked do you know where Kelsey Berreth is ?

I don’t see even the remotest possibility of PF not knowing where her body is.

If anything, I would think it’s probable that he’s the only one who knows.

 

[GordianKnot]

Correct. Exactly - they know she’s dead.

Thanks, rio...in your experience as a prosecutor, what would it take to convince you to file Murder 1 charges minus a body? Would accomplice testimony be enough? Blood evidence?
I know they must have something powerful to have moved ahead so speedily with the charges, it's just a little stunning that they aren't taking more time to see if they can locate KB first.

 

[GordianKnot]

IMO, he doesn’t have any incentive.

If/when he gets convicted, do you think getting the death penalty off the table will be enough of an incentive to get PF to give up KB's location, if she hasn't been found by then?

 

[Mercedes]

If/when he gets convicted, do you think getting the death penalty off the table will be enough of an incentive to get PF to give up KB's location, if she hasn't been found by then?

I don’t think it will ever be on the table.

As I understand, CO has the death penalty option, but

doesn’t typically pursue it.

 

[InvSmith]

Great sleuthing!

 

[Bill Carson]

As a resident of South Park, I have to disagree about the lack of “big ranches” in South Park. We have many. I can’t speak to landing strips, but I can assure you that there are numerous “big ranches” here. I can direct you to the huge Flying Horse ranch (with a name like that it wouldn’t surprise me if they have a landing strip, but I can’t say for sure). It is at the base of Kenosha Pass. Eagle rock ranch comes to mind as well, it is near Tarryall reservoir, which is on CR77, which would provide fairly direct access to Woodland Park. I can ask around about the names of others but just in my local part of South Park (the northern end), we have several ranches taking up the bulk of non public land.

Thank you for your input. That is good to know.

 

[vaporlass]

"Patrick told Krystal that little girls go missing off the playground all the time"

What IF PF said this to KK in reference to his fears about KB taking “their” daughter and taking off? Then, when she was telling her “story” she twisted it as a threat against her ... I’m assuming at this point she would be desperate to convince LE that FEAR caused her to help PF .... It seems criminals have a natural ability to insert true statements then turn around and twist them to suit their purpose.
What IF the ONLY way that LE would offer KK immunity is ONLY IF WE GET THE BODY.
Is it possible that she could have been given time (a few days) to consider her options???
And wouldn’t it take a few days to get a warrant for a landfill or is that something that can be done quickly? I know it happens quickly on TV but so do forensic tests and we all know the truth is that those tests can actually take a year or longer

 

[riolove77]

Thanks, rio...in your experience as a prosecutor, what would it take to convince you to file Murder 1 charges minus a body? Would accomplice testimony be enough? Blood evidence?
I know they must have something powerful to have moved ahead so speedily with the charges, it's just a little stunning that they aren't taking more time to see if they can locate KB first.

They know she’s dead from whatever evidence they have that shows negative proof of life. And they have enough evidence to charge solicitation, which shows premeditation. Killed plus premed equals murder one.

In this case, it’s possible that the amount of blood or any presence of brain tissue, for example, shows them the killing occurred. KK and/or anyone else talking, plus maybe phone records, GPS history, etc. (I.e. irrefutable digital evidence) shows the solicitation. These types of combinations would warrant murder one, even if I didn’t yet have a body.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Exactly why I think she was fed UP. She was a smart, intelligent, well employed cookie. She did not need him AT ALL. moo

eta and he knew it!

Maybe, his mother also "knew" it and wanted him to search for a "better" and "more suitable" young woman, for example a farmer's daughter or similar, who would have been willing, to give birth to some children and would have cared for them on her own and for PF's elderly mother too. MOO

 

[TravelingBug]

I was watching the Dateline episode tonight that was the Venus Stewart feature that reaired tonight with the updated info from this past October once she was finally found and couldn't help but think of this case throughout.

There were many reasons, but one big one was that it also had an outsider (just one in that case in Ricky Spencer) who could have prevented Venus' death by alerting LE to the plan, combined with his role in trying to create Doug's alibi - some components of which we obviously have in this case also, in at least knowing at this point that a few people knew PF wanted KB dead, plus any other roles that may have been played.

I just hope that unlike with Venus, it isn't years after a trial before PF (or whomever else was involved) decide to finally do the right thing and let KB's parents / daughter / other family and friends all have a proper goodbye.

For those unfamiliar with the case either from WS/media, etc., here's an article:
How murdered mother Venus Stewart's body was finally found, 8 years later

 

[Mimi in London]

Maybe, his mother also "knew" it and wanted him to search for a "better" and "more suitable" young woman, for example a farmer's daughter or similar, who would have been willing, to give birth to some children and would have cared for them on her own and for PF's elderly mother too. MOO

Oh, yes. That could be one reason he still had KK hanging around in his life. It might get Momma off his back. Let her think he’s seeing a woman who is more acceptable to her tastes....less of a threat.

moo