CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

Seattle, my interpretation of that = PF is strapped for cash.
Monetary stressors indicated.
What are your thoughts?

Very interesting note by the Colorado auction owner on January 2019 sales....

- JACE'S NOTES

PF's allegedly used the price factor as an excuse for many things in his life.

As he appears to have no other assets of his own, and public defender is not an option for civil suits, I don't think he had any other choice. MOO

 

[ajaylee]

Considering that PF was being brought in for murder, I really don't think PF's brother would impose upon his LE brothers at that moment expecting professional courtesy. Just the appearance alone could put the Teller County department in a very bad situation. This was no traffic stop! MOO

If there's any doubt, the cops cut the lock on his gate instead of calling and asking him to come out and open it for them. Not my idea of professional courtesy...

 

[mustloveco]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...rreth-s-lifelong-friend-speaks-out/1727101038

Kelsey's friend NH speaks out..

 

[ReadySet]

She won't have her mother. Her father took her mother away from her. He put himself first, ahead of what was best for his daughter.
IMO

I don’t think the B’s are interested in his money. They just want him gone, imo. Baby K will have what she needs/wants, I think.

 

[acutename]

I've seen girls , her size, hide in suitcases, as a joke. A few times over the years.

sadly, the body would fit in a "contractor" trash bag- something a big guy could probably carry in one hand, and it would not necessarily raise any question if no one was already aware that KB was missing. no need for a suitcase or a rug or any expensive or unique item.

 

[GordianKnot]

*Deleted.

Off topic.

 

[riolove77]

JMO
I am appalled at this part:

The motion also claims the parents cannot claim infliction of emotional distress because “they were not the targets of the alleged actions causing the wrongful death of Kelsy (sic) Berreth nor were they physically present or physically injured on the occasion of the alleged wrongful death.”

First off its obvious PF still to this day does not realize his actions had dire consequences and has hurt other people besides KB. Secondly, his lawyers argument about not being physically present or physically hurt is a direct contradiction to what the suit says.

The claim of emotional distress is what it means. Emotional distressing and emotional pain and suffering due to the death of their daughter. Of course they were not physically present or physically killed like KB was, but her death has caused them tremendous emotional pain and suffering as it would any parent of a murdered child. And I would even go as far to say there is some physical pain and illnesses that will materialize as they work through their grief even though the lawsuit is only claiming for emotional distress.

I hope PF and all his counter claims are thrown out by the courts and I hope it all backfires on him and is used against him in his criminal trial.

The tricky thing with IIED claims is that, while some courts have moved away from it as time has gone on, one element of the tort is that if you suffer emotional distress, you must have physical manifestations of it in order to recover. I suspect this is the angle PF's attorneys are trying to target this from; to say that CB and DB's emotional sadness, anxiety, anger, etc. are not enough if they haven't displayed actual physical symptoms to go along with it.

I hope the man fries, don't get me wrong; just providing legal insight here.

 

[acutename]

Then there's others who have adult daughters (or sons) that only call when something is wrong. You almost hate to get a call because 'no news is good news'.
I'm not sure if all parents really get the full lowdown on their daughter's boyfriends or husband. I'm guessing it varies.

presumably PF/SF were baby sitting most week days when KB was working. this suggests that at least up until fairly recently, no one thought that they were dangerous, negligent, evil, etc. if KB really thought PF/SF - either one, were capable of murder, she would not have allowed either one of them to touch little K. IMO. no matter what the KB/PF relationship was, KB trusted PF/SF with her daughter.

 

[riolove77]

I don't know if anyone has answered yet. Does anyone have a link to a copy of the complaint?

At first blush I would think federal law would apply but I might be wrong. Feds have jurisdiction because the litigants are from different states. So CO state law likely applies.

I'm not sure how this works. It's not my area of law. But it seems the Berreth's attorneys would know the law on this before filing?

Not my area either, but I believe since the case is in federal court under diversity jurisdiction, it would be federal procedure but state law. So in this case, CO law. I'm sure the B's attorneys know what they're doing, I agree.

 

[acutename]

I would say the reporter is an urban person with little understanding of the AG business. PF has some cows at the 35-acres. They can be seen in the pipe pens and in his dog videos. But you don't "run" cattle on that home acreage which is also 2/3 forested. PF "runs" his cattle business from the 35-acres, but the herd of cattle is "running" on BLM land elsewhere.

Is this somehow complicated? Beef cattle are out "running" all over the western states. No one feeds them daily or checks on them.

IMO it is also an urban-suburban mentality that finds it strange that adult children in any AG family continue to live at home. That's the norm, multi-generational family on one farm or ranch. They build more housing as needed.

if anything seems sort of normal to me, it is PF living on the ranch- his mother is not young and someone has to do a lot of physical labor. if it were not PF, it would have had to have been one of his siblings or a cousins or some one else in the fam. even with hired help, some one would need to manage them. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

I wasn't too worried about the potential dismissal of the wrongful death lawsuit because it could just be refiled by the guardians of little K on her behalf.

But I was just reading about colorado law and for a child they can bring a wrongful death lawsuit but after the first year of the parent's death.

Edit: i reread it and remembered PF was not her spouse so I don't think the 1 yr wait period will apply to little K

This would likely mean that PF wouldn't get disposed before his criminal trial, so any advantage they were seeking there would be lost. It would also mean there will probably be no funds left anyway. Not that there probably would have been anything but...

I guess I was hoping that at the bare minimum with this wrongful death lawsuit he would have lost what little savings etc that he had to lawyers fees for his civil defense. By the time they are allowed to file on behalf of little K, I'm sure he won't have money for a civil lawyer..

The first hearing of the civil suit should be explosive. Stay tuned and prepare for disappointment. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

Just read the news that KBs parents cannot bring a wrongful death suit and I am heartbroken for them. Came here right away to see what was being said.

PF has a superb legal team representing him in this action. Their answer raises significant issues, but most likely each one was anticipated by the B's attorneys. It was never a slam dunk lawsuit. IMO

 

[acutename]

JMO
I am appalled at this part:

The motion also claims the parents cannot claim infliction of emotional distress because “they were not the targets of the alleged actions causing the wrongful death of Kelsy (sic) Berreth nor were they physically present or physically injured on the occasion of the alleged wrongful death.”

First off its obvious PF still to this day does not realize his actions had dire consequences and has hurt other people besides KB. Secondly, his lawyers argument about not being physically present or physically hurt is a direct contradiction to what the suit says.

The claim of emotional distress is what it means. Emotional distressing and emotional pain and suffering due to the death of their daughter. Of course they were not physically present or physically killed like KB was, but her death has caused them tremendous emotional pain and suffering as it would any parent of a murdered child. And I would even go as far to say there is some physical pain and illnesses that will materialize as they work through their grief even though the lawsuit is only claiming for emotional distress.

I hope PF and all his counter claims are thrown out by the courts and I hope it all backfires on him and is used against him in his criminal trial.

not familiar with CO case law - some states have very narrow definitions of what actions constitute "emotional distress" for which you can sue. e.g. you might need to actually witness a car accident. it sounds as if this motion is based on some narrow readings of the law. PF's attorney is supposed to zealously represent him, so even if the Court is not persuaded, he is allowed to try certain arguments within reason. IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

The first hearing of the civil suit should be explosive. Stay tuned and prepare for disappointment. IMO

What exactly do you anticipate at first hearing date that will be "explosive" -- yet end in "disappointment" (presumably for Berreth's)?

 

[Wild Rose]

I do not understand why we cannot charge someone who kills a parent and takes the child with kidnapping regardless if they themselves are a parent also. Custodial and non custodial parents are charged when they take a child and here someone kills a parent to do it.

 

[Dave F.]

What exactly do you anticipate at first hearing date that will be "explosive" -- yet end in "disappointment" (presumably for Berreth's)?

The issues raised are very basic, but very complex. The outcomes simply can't be predicted in a discussion forum. Both sides will have their best effort put forward in the courtroom, and it may turn into a bitter exchange. The results might satisfy no one. IMO

 

[acutename]

PF's allegedly used the price factor as an excuse for many things in his life.

As he appears to have no other assets of his own, and public defender is not an option for civil suits, I don't think he had any other choice. MOO

not a farmer but:
Slaughtering beef animals at 12 months is most profitable, say scientists - Farmers Weekly

probably different farmers have different takes on this. it seems possible to me that PF/SF would normally sell a lot of stock before winter because in the winter they would have no grazing land available and no place to house all the cattle and they would be expensive to feed, so maybe this was a typical time to sell.

 

[Dave F.]

I was surprised they filed because as far as I know, KB has not been officially declared dead yet.

Mrs. Jackson's lawsuit was in California, not Colorado. She had a coroner's verdict of death by overdose of prescription drugs while the physician was in attendance, she had sole legal custody of the minor heirs of Michael Jackson, and she herself was an heir of Michael Jackson. Going into the first hearing, there is no comparison with the B's lawsuit. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

Not my area either, but I believe since the case is in federal court under diversity jurisdiction, it would be federal procedure but state law. So in this case, CO law. I'm sure the B's attorneys know what they're doing, I agree.

In addition to spouse or children, Colorado law gives the designated beneficiary of a wrongful death victim the right to bring a wrongful death claim. bbm

The right of a designated beneficiary to bring a wrongful death claim is a new development under Colorado law, effective since July 1, 2009. [31]

A "designated beneficiary" is one who: has entered into a designated beneficiary agreement, [by which] two people . . . designat[e] each person as a beneficiary of the other person and for the purpose of ensuring that each person has certain rights and financial protections based upon the designation. [32]...

https://www.viorstlaw.com/Articles/The-Colorado-Wrongful-Death-Act.pdf

 

[Dave F.]

In addition to spouse or children, Colorado law gives the designated beneficiary of a wrongful death victim the right to bring a wrongful death claim. bbm

The right of a designated beneficiary to bring a wrongful death claim is a new development under Colorado law, effective since July 1, 2009. [31]

A "designated beneficiary" is one who: has entered into a designated beneficiary agreement, [by which] two people . . . designat[e] each person as a beneficiary of the other person and for the purpose of ensuring that each person has certain rights and financial protections based upon the designation. [32]...

https://www.viorstlaw.com/Articles/The-Colorado-Wrongful-Death-Act.pdf

I'm not understanding. The Colorado Designated Beneficiary Agreement is a document by which two persons who do not have the full protection of legal marriage can agree the bestow those rights, such as survivorship, upon each other.
Same-Sex Marriage Historic Developments