CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Her position is still precarious at best.

I don’t think she’s in any jeopardy of facing further charges.

Law enforcement and the DA, would have fully investigated her, and her account.

If they thought she committed much more serious crimes (been involved in the murder itself for instance), there’s no way she’d be getting off this light.

She’s lucky; hopefully PF doesn’t share the same luck.

I’m confident he won’t.

 

[gliving]

I don’t think she’s in any jeopardy of facing further charges.

Law enforcement and the DA, would have fully investigated her, and her account.

If they thought she committed much more serious crimes (been involved in the murder itself for instance), there’s no way she’d be getting off this light.

She’s lucky; hopefully PF doesn’t share the same luck.

I’m confident he won’t.

Oh, I think retaining one of Colorado's best criminal attorneys helped. She's in this up to her spurs. moo

"Dru Nielsen has been recognized as one of the top criminal defense attorneys in Colorado. Since graduating from law school in 1997, Dru has devoted her entire career to aggressively defending individuals accused of committing crimes. While Dru has won dozens of “not guilty” verdicts at trial, her unique ability to successfully resolve serious cases prior to trial has also earned the respect of clients and opponents, alike."

Dru Nielsen - Criminal Defense Lawyer | Eytan Nielsen

 

[MassGuy]

Oh, I think retaining one of Colorado's best criminal attorneys helped. She's in this up to her spurs. moo

"Dru Nielsen has been recognized as one of the top criminal defense attorneys in Colorado. Since graduating from law school in 1997, Dru has devoted her entire career to aggressively defending individuals accused of committing crimes. While Dru has won dozens of “not guilty” verdicts at trial, her unique ability to successfully resolve serious cases prior to trial has also earned the respect of clients and opponents, alike."

Dru Nielsen - Criminal Defense Lawyer | Eytan Nielsen

She definitely did more than she is pleading too, I have no doubt about that.

I’m also confident that this particular attorney, got her a better deal than she would have otherwise gotten with another lawyer.

That being said, the evidence is the evidence, and the prosecution clearly does not believe that she is involved to the extent that some people on here do.

They definitely don’t think she drove the plot, or (likely) was even an accessory before the fact.

It doesn’t make her a good person (I think she’s a horrible human being).

 

[riolove77]

What?! Says who?

Someone said it on the last thread about KK! If so, I’m in trouble soon.

 

[katydid23]

As to the situation with Grandma Frazee and her grand child custody and visitation issue---it is a big complicated mess.

Sure, she spent a lot of time with the baby. But unfortunately, at that same time, her son was living in the same home, and making brutal plans to kill his child's mother.

Of course, that was not her making those plans, as far as we know, but I don't think the courts are going to award her any kind of custody deal until AFTER her son's murder trial. We are looking at a year or 2 or more.

I am pretty sure that the maternal grandparents will retain custody until then, when it will be revisited. So by then, the child will be 4 or 5. I do not believe she will be taken from their custody unless there is some kind of issue. I doubt there will be.

So the question will not be custody, in my opinion. Unless of course PF is acquitted.

He will most likely be found Guilty, imo. So the question to be resolved in the future will be grandparent visitation. And again, that will be very complicated. One cannot expect the victim's parents to travel out of state to Colorado to drop off their grandchild to PF's mother. That is asking a lot.

I think it would be up to Grandma Frazee to travel out of state to visit her granddaughter. And I think the B family would probably ask for supervised visitation to begin with. I certainly would be afraid that someone might try and run off with my grand daughter if I was in that difficult situation.

It is not going to be an easy family dynamic to work with. JMO

 

[Oregon]

Been mulling over KK’s statement that she “learned” KB was murdered. Was she near enough to have used her nursing skills to render aid? In my imagination, I see her outside with the baby, sitting in his red truck, while Patrick goes inside. Did he come out to the truck and say he did it? Why wasn’t she shocked into action to help KB. I wish we knew enough details to put Kelsey to rest and ensure that all those responsible pay. I hope, he pleads guilty so the family does not have to endure a trial.

 

[Oregon]

As to the situation with Grandma Frazee and her grand child custody and visitation issue---it is a big complicated mess.

Sure, she spent a lot of time with the baby. But unfortunately, at that same time, her son was living in the same home, and making brutal plans to kill his child's mother.

Of course, that was not her making those plans, as far as we know, but I don't think the courts are going to award her any kind of custody deal until AFTER her son's murder trial. We are looking at a year or 2 or more.

I am pretty sure that the maternal grandparents will retain custody until then, when it will be revisited. So by then, the child will be 4 or 5. I do not believe she will be taken from their custody unless there is some kind of issue. I doubt there will be.

So the question will not be custody, in my opinion. Unless of course PF is acquitted.

He will most likely be found Guilty, imo. So the question to be resolved in the future will be grandparent visitation. And again, that will be very complicated. One cannot expect the victim's parents to travel out of state to Colorado to drop off their grandchild to PF's mother. That is asking a lot.

I think it would be up to Grandma Frazee to travel out of state to visit her granddaughter. And I think the B family would probably ask for supervised visitation to begin with. I certainly would be afraid that someone might try and run off with my grand daughter if I was in that difficult situation.

It is not going to be an easy family dynamic to work with. JMO

I believe that if he is found guilty of murdering KB, is sentenced to death or a significant amount of time, that his parental rights can be terminated. CPS would have many avenues to terminate. The B’s may choose to adopt, and CPS could terminate his rights to allow that to happen. I believe if those rights are terminated, the relationships associated with the F family would also be terminated.

 

[katydid23]

I believe that if he is found guilty of murdering KB, is sentenced to death or a significant amount of time, that his parental rights can be terminated. CPS would have many avenues to terminate. The B’s may choose to adopt, and CPS could terminate his rights to allow that to happen. I believe if those rights are terminated, the relationships associated with the F family would also be terminated.

I hope so. Although I do feel bad that this poor baby's life was so turned upside down.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

From the link:

"But the final demand, the “Revocation of all releases and waivers and assertion of all rights and privileges”, shows the defense is looking to protect Kenney from overreaching prosecution.

“Ms. Kenney hereby revokes and rescinds all releases, waivers and authorizations for the release of information which she may have heretofore made, and she hereby asserts all of her rights and privileges under Colorado’s privilege rules, statutes and principles…,” Nielsen said in the document.

Stephen Longo, an attorney with McDivitt Law Firm, said it appears Kenney is trying to leverage her position as a possible key witness in the case against Patrick Frazee to try and get a lesser sentence in her case, if convicted.

“Her kind of reversing and not sure if she’s gonna enter a plea deal or recanting statements is interesting, because you wonder whether or not she just doesn’t like the plea deal she’s getting and wants to leverage her position as a key witness against the defendant,” Longo said.

It’s a tough spot for the prosecution. Longo said they need to keep Kenney on board as a witness, while still holding her accountable for the alleged crime.

“You need to get a plea agreement, or you want to get some conviction against her without compromising, ultimately, what you want to accomplish in the murder trial,” Longo said."

It sounds like she's in limbo between being a key witness and keeping her plea agreement. Hell of a place to be.

Well it's better than where Kelsey is. Wherever that may Be.

 

[Dave F.]

As to the situation with Grandma Frazee and her grand child custody and visitation issue---it is a big complicated mess.

Sure, she spent a lot of time with the baby. But unfortunately, at that same time, her son was living in the same home, and making brutal plans to kill his child's mother.

Of course, that was not her making those plans, as far as we know, but I don't think the courts are going to award her any kind of custody deal until AFTER her son's murder trial. We are looking at a year or 2 or more.

I am pretty sure that the maternal grandparents will retain custody until then, when it will be revisited. So by then, the child will be 4 or 5. I do not believe she will be taken from their custody unless there is some kind of issue. I doubt there will be.

So the question will not be custody, in my opinion. Unless of course PF is acquitted.

He will most likely be found Guilty, imo. So the question to be resolved in the future will be grandparent visitation. And again, that will be very complicated. One cannot expect the victim's parents to travel out of state to Colorado to drop off their grandchild to PF's mother. That is asking a lot.

I think it would be up to Grandma Frazee to travel out of state to visit her granddaughter. And I think the B family would probably ask for supervised visitation to begin with. I certainly would be afraid that someone might try and run off with my grand daughter if I was in that difficult situation.

It is not going to be an easy family dynamic to work with. JMO

Right now, the best interest of the child is being served by legal custody being in the hands of the State of Colorado. Temporary physical custody is very similar to being a foster family in the eyes of the law. There is no such thing in child custody in Colorado as the court "asking a lot" of a potential permanent guardian. They either have the ability to fully serve the best interest of the child, or they don't have the ability. With that stated, they all seem to be reasonable people who sincerely have her best interest at heart. I'm sure they will work it all out, in time. IMO

 

[lindaromas]

So many what if's! I'm stepping back for awhile, need to clear my mind of all of this for awhile.

 

[katydid23]

Right now, the best interest of the child is being served by legal custody being in the hands of the State of Colorado. Temporary physical custody is very similar to being a foster family in the eyes of the law. There is no such thing in child custody in Colorado as the court "asking a lot" of a potential permanent guardian. They either have the ability to fully serve the best interest of the child, or they don't have the ability. With that stated, they all seem to be reasonable people who sincerely have her best interest at heart. I'm sure they will work it all out, in time. IMO

I am a reasonable person. But if my daughter's ex boyfriend killed her, I would not be dropping off her baby at his parent's home, any time soon, if ever. I just wouldn't feel like it was in the baby's best interests to be cared for in that home any more.

I am not sure it would be in the child's best interest to be around the family of her mother's killer, especially if they continue to support him and declare his innocence. JMO IMO

 

[Seattle1]

I am a reasonable person. But if my daughter's ex boyfriend killed her, I would not be dropping off her baby at his parent's home, any time soon, if ever. I just wouldn't feel like it was in the baby's best interests to be cared for in that home any more.

I am not sure it would be in the child's best interest to be around the family of her mother's killer, especially if they continue to support him and declare his innocence. JMO IMO

It never sat right with me that court had to intervene just for CB to see her granddaughter. It was very clear that PF/SF did not allow it when CB first arrived Colorado.

 

[Elley Mae]

I am a reasonable person. But if my daughter's ex boyfriend killed her, I would not be dropping off her baby at his parent's home, any time soon, if ever. I just wouldn't feel like it was in the baby's best interests to be cared for in that home any more.

I am not sure it would be in the child's best interest to be around the family of her mother's killer, especially if they continue to support him and declare his innocence. JMO IMO

Totally agree.


If I could I would bet my Life that PK’s family will NEVER see baby K again.

Not gonna happen.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

It never sat right with me that court had to intervene just for CB to see her granddaughter. It was very clear that PF/SF did not allow it when CB first arrived Colorado.

This is why I'm sort of leaning towards a discussion between PF and KB regarding custody back in October. Just KB knocking around a suggestion. I know she could have mentioned it to her mom, but, maybe she was just bouncing it off PF. Maybe change up her life. None of us know what or why something precipitated this senseless murder. YET. Feb 19th coming up.
IMO, it might have been something that would restrict his mom to just visitation. Not daily physical presence of Kaylee. Perhaps, even child support from PF.

I hate "case dropping", but, the Rhoden massacre boiled down to, in essence, just that. Custody of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden's child, Sofia. Most horrific and deviously planned brutal murder of 8 people I've ever seen.
The Wagners planned and plotted for several month before executing their absolutely inhumane slaughter of this family.

 

[susiQ]

It never sat right with me that court had to intervene just for CB to see her granddaughter. It was very clear that PF/SF did not allow it when CB first arrived Colorado.

Thinking back to those early days, I just remember how cruel I thought PF/SF acted towards CB, in that they made NO attempt to bring baby K to see her and give her some comfort. That alone convinced me that PF had done something to KB and their family (the F's) lacked any sympathy or empathy for what that poor woman and her family were going through. Does not speak well for them getting visitation, never mind custody. MOO

 

[InvSmith]

As to the situation with Grandma Frazee and her grand child custody and visitation issue---it is a big complicated mess.

Sure, she spent a lot of time with the baby. But unfortunately, at that same time, her son was living in the same home, and making brutal plans to kill his child's mother.

Of course, that was not her making those plans, as far as we know, but I don't think the courts are going to award her any kind of custody deal until AFTER her son's murder trial. We are looking at a year or 2 or more.

I am pretty sure that the maternal grandparents will retain custody until then, when it will be revisited. So by then, the child will be 4 or 5. I do not believe she will be taken from their custody unless there is some kind of issue. I doubt there will be.

So the question will not be custody, in my opinion. Unless of course PF is acquitted.

He will most likely be found Guilty, imo. So the question to be resolved in the future will be grandparent visitation. And again, that will be very complicated. One cannot expect the victim's parents to travel out of state to Colorado to drop off their grandchild to PF's mother. That is asking a lot.

I think it would be up to Grandma Frazee to travel out of state to visit her granddaughter. And I think the B family would probably ask for supervised visitation to begin with. I certainly would be afraid that someone might try and run off with my grand daughter if I was in that difficult situation.

It is not going to be an easy family dynamic to work with. JMO

As much as I think KB'death is PF's fault based on the charges, his mother did not contact the police either when KB was missing. I understand she was most likely being told a cover story but even when she did not show up after a week some hard questions needed to be answered with the police.

 

[InvSmith]

Repeat

 

[Lhughessk]

Yay!

Say what you want about the media, but this is exactly the type of situation they prove their worth.

Unfortunately the media are not equal everywhere. In many cases they are passive and just wait for LE or the courts to do something, then they report on it. But kudos to the CO media for injecting a little activism into their work.

 

[The Saint]

From the news reports, my interpretation is that SF was there, possibly with a tall woman wearing a red jacket. My thought is she could have been an attorney for SF. It is going to the pre-trial phase, but custody moves very slowly. I don't see any changes being made to the present arrangement, but permanent legal custody might not be transferred any time soon. IMO

I was thinking that the tall woman could be PF's sister.