CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

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susiQ said:
It's hard to remember all the details, but I thought KK and auntie went out for a beer in WP just before she brought KK the caramel machiatto (sp?) on the 'first' attempt at killing her. And no, you don't take candy/coffee from complete strangers.
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Hmmm, I thought it was ID, but I could be wrong, I can't find that anything about a beer now, but am looking!
 
InvSmith said:
There are parts of truths in what she says. But she is definitely telling an embellished story whether that comes from PF or her own mind. There was nothing romantic happening. There was no tooth in a grate. She is adding grandiosity for attention and importance. It goes on and on. It is not to say it is all her. PF is perfectly capable of the same twisted narcissism.
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Yes, she seems to be a bit of a "Histrionic" w/ her attention seeking
and overly dramatic antics. moo.
 
girlhasnoname said:
Possible, but I don't believe the candle/sweater ruse myself. I think his shirt or sweater got bloody and he took it off. He'd still need KK to retrieve it since it would be highly incriminating. Although, OTOH what a bizarre scenario to make up in relation to everything else that was going on with this homicide!

Does anyone know the general consensus here on the thread as to whether or not PF did actually use the candle/sweater ruse? <I think the way you worded that LOL> Yes or No?
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It is extremely common for violent criminals to attempt to make their crime appear more palatable/socially acceptable. This is very "Nine and 1/2 Weeks". I think it is invented for KKL's benefit and not the police. He wants her to know that while he could kill the mother of his child; he did it romantically as possible. I feel strongly the sweater covered her face after death and the candles covered the smell. I am sure he did enter the scene several times.
 
Artis said:
The timeline is DaveF's but her alleged actions came from testimony at the prelim:

After the fire, Slater said Lee told him Frazee told her to take a nap. She told Slater he brought her two slices of pizza and an Ibuprofen because she had a headache.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
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Yeah, I'd probably have a headache too, if I'd done even a fraction of what these lunatics did.

Man, these people.
 
Moma J said:
KK must have a stomach made of steel to have cleaned up the mess and to knowingly sit through a bonfire that’s burning another humans life. I cant even fathom this. Just this whole thing hurts my heart so bad for KB and her whole family. I have been a nurse for 20 years and we take an oath to value every human life. KK and PF don’t value much of anything by their actions they’ve displayed IMOO.
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I have thought about this a lot. I have mentioned before that I work in white collar crime and it interfaces often with nurses/physicians, both on the good and bad side of things. I have found that crime covers all walk of life from the educated to the non-educated. Criminologists would like for us to believe the more educated you are, the less likely you are to be an offender and especially a repeat offender. In this case, the nursing was a means to an end. Whereas, for many nurses, their calling is nursing. Whether or not educated, there is very little human understanding in this case. We have to see the humanity in the officers and agents that faced all involved in this plot of evil and brought them to justice. Think of the humanity of the humans still searching for KB to bury.
 
Seattle1 said:
Not only did PF drop enough hints to other people to make it look like suicide, that awful man was most likely responsible for sending CB a text from KB's phone late Thanksgiving night that KB had her gun (allegedly given back to her by PF) and had gone shooting that night. Yes, PF wanted CB to believe that KB went off and ended her life with means and motive.

11 AM
[...]
Late Thanksgiving night, Cheryl Berreth said she received a text message from her daughter saying that Frazee had returned her gun and she had gone shooting that night.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
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I think a text telling mom "I went shooting tonight" would have the opposite effect, because it implies "and now I am safely home from the target practice and texting you."
 
Choochoobella said:
I'm so glad you brought this up! This has been bothering me ever since I read the affidavit! Like you, this order of events makes no sense to me.

However, I've wondered about a few things that make more sense than the candle-sniffing "research" PF claims to have conducted on KB as a prelude to hitting her with a bat.

KB's mom mentioned that she was surprised to see how KB looked on the Safeway video: hair up in a bun, no makeup, didn't look like her usual put-together self. I'm guessing KB hadn't had her shower yet when she ran out to Safeway to get the dip ingredients. KB figures she'll take her shower after PF picks up baby K. Maybe things go down like this:

PF picks up baby K. KB says she's going to go take a shower.
PF sees his opportunity. He goes to Walmart for just a few minutes. Does he buy the bat then?
He's back at KB's right away. He lets himself into her house, puts baby K in the back room and enters the bathroom with the bat.
He attacks KB in the shower. This is the room where LE finds quite a bit of blood evidence that KK missed during her clean-up.
KB never saw it coming: no sweater over her head or candle-sniffing game. Why would she engage in that anyway? Things are tense between KB and PF. She's not about to let him put a sweater over her head for any reason.
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I have thought of this or a couple of different variations of it and it works but still has things that make me wonder. To sneak in, and trust a baby not to cry, wake up, scream and try to hold her, keys, bat (if he had it then), etc., does not seem too sneaky nor the simplest. I think he almost must have been expected back. Yet then that really does not fit with why take her with for a few moments in the first place and/or pick her up in the alley? And it only works if KB told him she was going to take a shower. In that small of a square footage apartment too, someone coming in would be pretty hard to miss if not in the shower. Also in the affidavit, KK says PF told her he killed her in the living room. Unraveling the lies is frustrating...

What if they were getting along or so she thought and he was taking the baby to get that tree that KB told her mother he might want to do with the baby himself? I pictured that as cutting a tree but she is only a one-year-old. Maybe he meant just to pick out a tree or at a close by tree farm? Instead he goes to Wal-mart and grabs one, maybe they have a lot? Or had a tree lot or he simply told her that is where they were going but went to Wal-mart instead to get a tree...? He comes back and is expected?

Yet he tells LE that he picked up Baby K for exchange and did it to show a different time line? Not knowing about the camera?

One final thought, is in #12, it never mentions the baby nor the carrier. Did his trip to Walmart involve handing the baby off to someone else he is maybe protecting? Or was the baby in the truck? But then why would he say she was in the playpen or is that what he simply told KK?

None of these really make no sense either or have holes. Frustrating...

I guess for the moment I figure he had her believing they were spending the day together, whether at mom's or alone. He found a reason to take the baby with but why I am unsure, maybe to please her acting as if they were getting a tree... Most likely it was to be seen on Wal-Mart surveillance to establish a different time line? Yet he was too dumb to think about cameras in KB's neighborhood?
 
SandyQLS said:
Your post reminded me of another issue.

- PF, KB, baby and flowers are at KB door "around 1:00PM"
- PF and baby are at Walmart 12:54 - 1:17PM
- an individual "matching PF's description" enters KB's door at 1:24PM per AA (tweets say 1:36)

If the person entering KB's door at 1:24PM is PF, and he already had the baby in the carrier at Walmart, and KK says the baby was in the back bedroom during the murder - then why wasn't the baby and baby carrier seen entering KB's door with PF at 1:24PM? If the person presumed to be PF did not have the baby and baby carrier, then she was left in the truck?

If KK wasn't there on 11/22, then why does she say the baby was in the back bedroom? How did the baby get there, she already left.

Per SF2, the baby arrived at the ranchette with PF a little after 2:30PM.
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Yes, the timeline begs questions. I wonder too if the baby was not left in the truck (or even taken elsewhere and not there at all). Why one would say she was in the house though I have no idea. Maybe the dumbas* thought it would sound worse that he left the baby in the truck or wanted to impress KK how cold he could be by saying she was in the bedroom? Maybe he went out and got her from the truck after incapacitating KB? But no mention of him on video doing so... It is all so, as has been said many times, confusing.
 
InvSmith said:
I have thought about this a lot. I have mentioned before that I work in white collar crime and it interfaces often with nurses/physicians, both on the good and bad side of things. I have found that crime covers all walk of life from the educated to the non-educated. Criminologists would like for us to believe the more educated you are, the less likely you are to be an offender and especially a repeat offender. In this case, the nursing was a means to an end. Whereas, for many nurses, their calling is nursing. Whether or not educated, there is very little human understanding in this case. We have to see the humanity in the officers and agents that faced all involved in this plot of evil and brought them to justice. Think of the humanity of the humans still searching for KB to bury.
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Love this post. Officers and agents face this every single day. I feel so bad for them. They are truly our heroes.
 
enelram said:
Sandy, Are we sure baby was w/ him at Walmart? I hadn't heard
that but you could be right.
The pic at the credit union ATM showed an empty baby carrier,
but no baby. This led me to believe the baby was still w/ KB at home at the condo.
Also according to DaveF, only the head and top of shoulders
of PF would show on neighbor's video cue to angle of camera.
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At Walmart too I believe they state they cannot see the baby, just the carrier and a similar blanket. I have wondered this too, was she left at home, he takes the carrier even on the pretext to KB I will grab it now and it will be ready in the vehicle/all secured for when they leave later, to establish an alibi? Said he had to run to the bank and do an errand or two. Maybe she was making dip. The same with the bank? They seem to point out they cannot see the baby in these videos/shots...
 
ilovechili said:
Yes, the timeline begs questions. I wonder too if the baby was not left in the truck (or even taken elsewhere and not there at all). Why one would say she was in the house though I have no idea. Maybe the dumbas* thought it would sound worse that he left the baby in the truck or wanted to impress KK how cold he could be by saying she was in the bedroom? Maybe he went out and got her from the truck after incapacitating KB? But no mention of him on video doing so... It is all so, as has been said many times, confusing.
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It's said the best lies are rooted in a smidge of the truth. I do believe he killed KB with a bat. I do believe KB was taken to a barn in a tote box. I do believe KK and PF and most likely SF burned KB and belongings in their yard where the majority of the digging happened. When KB was actually killed, whether KK shot her (accounting for that missing bullet in MG's gun), and whether KB was still clinging to life when she was placed in that tote and taken to the barn are a question for me.
If I had to give my scenario, I think PF battered KB in her home on the 22nd. He then put her in the tote, and took her to the barn. I'm not convinced she was dead at that time. I also believe when KK and PF went to the barn to retrieve KB to dispose of her, she was still alive and KK shot her to finish the job. Then I believe they took her back to the Frazee residence, burned her and while she burned and SF watched over things, the two went back to KB's home to clean it up. KK hadn't been in KB's home, so it would make sense for PF to go with her to make sure it would look undisturbed.
 
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