CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[ilovechili]

Agreed.

There's certainly no shortage of beastly types looking out for their own well-worn, leathery hides in this case.

Hope Dan May hangs all of them up on his office wall as a display when the trial's over.

JMO.

Well said! And I agree.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think you missed the point. PF intended this as the last communication CB was to receive from KB before she went missing --coupled with his message that PF & KB broke up. Text was sent from KB phone when she was believed dead.

Right, and there was not anything contained in that text message that said she "felt safe now" or that she was "happy"to have her gun back. In the court transcripts, Slater stated that CB said that KB " told" her that. Since he didn't indicate that was part of the message sent on Thanksgiving night, I think it's possible that Kelsey mentioned it in an earlier conversatiin with her mom, and said nothing about any plans to go shooting, which contradicts the text from PF later that night. Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

Is it possible that when she was questioned they said to her… Tell us everything that happened, step-by-step, don’t leave anything out. And she just took that to the nth degree? It seems to me (if you have ever watched live PD) that when people are nervous and speaking to the police they WAY over explain.

Maybe but then PF did the same to her, giving every little last detail? Not to say they must have had hours at some point in time to have this uninterrupted conversation. He does not strike me as the nervous type to give minute detail because of being nervous. He is described from what I have seen actually as someone who said little. I like others just find it odd.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think you missed the point. PF intended this as the last communication CB was to receive from KB before she went missing --coupled with his message that PF & KB broke up. Text was sent from KB phone when she was believed dead.

I guess I am missing something. I thought the purpose of the text (at least per the post I was replying to) was to set the stage for CB, and then LE/everyone, to think that KB had killed herself.

How would a message saying "I went shooting" which is intended to look like she sent it herself (even though we know otherwise) not also communicate "and now I'm home safely"?

I guess I'm confused.

 

[enelram]

I think DA Dan was putting Ma F. on notice that he knows she's complicit in some aspect of the crime.

It was him firing a warning shot across the bow, IMO.

Is it possible that when she was questioned they said to her… Tell us everything that happened, step-by-step, don’t leave anything out. And she just took that to the nth degree? It seems to me (if you have ever watched live PD) that when people are nervous and speaking to the police they WAY over explain.

Over explaining and saying too much is also a trait of lying.
when someone is fibbing they often go on and on with unimportant details. RED FLAG!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe that changed when the DA said she did have some involvement at the beginning of the court hearing?

I don't think it's changed. There has been a warning about it since the hearing.
I think she is considered a witness who may be able to confirm at least the burning which took place on her property, and who was at her house and what time they were there on Thanksgiving, etc.
I have seen no indication that they suspect she was involved with the crime. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

I guess I am missing something. I thought the purpose of the text (at least per the post I was replying to) was to set the stage for CB, and then LE/everyone, to think that KB had killed herself.

How would a message saying "I went shooting" which is intended to look like she sent it herself (even though we know otherwise) not also communicate "and now I'm home safely"?

I guess I'm confused.

Not to mention if he wanted it to look as if she left home on Thanksgiving on a trip, texting that she went shooting Thanksgiving night and came home safely makes absolutely no sense I agree.

 

[enelram]

I think KK may have said more about SF than we know. Key words: 'than we know'.

Keep in mind, it's possible SF has things to say about KK, too.

Re: discussion of the cellphones earlier (sorry, I wasn't up yet!).

PF surrendered his phone to LE. IIRC, he anticipated that and had already gotten a new phone and new phone number - perhaps on the advice of SF2. He didn't suddenly and conveniently 'lose' his phone and IIRC, LE found KK's number on his phone and that's how this whole thing started to unravel.

It appears that KK 'disappeared' her phone before LE could get it. I asked about cellhphone SIMs earlier, because I was curious to know what exactly might be on the phone itself that LE can't get any other way, ie, from the cell phone providers.

It also seemed slightly odd - PF gave his phone up and KK suddenly lost her phone. These two talked a lot about phones and leaving fake cellphone trails for the cops - ironically, they left far more of a real trail, via pings, than they did through fake texts and calls. It just seems odd to me that they wouldn't have discussed strategies on dealing with their own phones once LE came calling.

I've wondered about KK's phone also. Obviously she's hiding
something on that phone. Is it information that doesn't jive
with her testimony and would prove she's lying?
Or is it indecent photos she stored and can't erase?
Or are there numbers on the phone of someone else she
doesn't want to implicate? She's hiding something, for sure.

 

[Seattle1]

I guess I am missing something. I thought the purpose of the text (at least per the post I was replying to) was to set the stage for CB, and then LE/everyone, to think that KB had killed herself.

How would a message saying "I went shooting" which is intended to look like she sent it herself (even though we know otherwise) not also communicate "and now I'm home safely"?

I guess I'm confused.

As the "target shooting" likely never happened, emphasis was on KB had a gun for the first time since 2017.

PF allegedly took gun away (Jan 2017) from KB after she threatened to use it on herself during an argument over finances. Also, CB did not believe KB would go shooting Thanksgiving night as message alleged-- therefore not communicate "and now I'm home safely."

 

[MsBetsy]

I guess I am missing something. I thought the purpose of the text (at least per the post I was replying to) was to set the stage for CB, and then LE/everyone, to think that KB had killed herself.

How would a message saying "I went shooting" which is intended to look like she sent it herself (even though we know otherwise) not also communicate "and now I'm home safely"?

I guess I'm confused.

I don't think PF realized at the time that LE would be able to determine she was killed on Thanksgiving. He kept up the ruse that she was alive for several days. He may have sent the message just to make it clear that Kelsey had her gun before she went off on her trip. It's pretty clear from his later message, "Do you even love me anymore?" that he was hoping that was what people would think. Imo

 

[Noharg]

I know I mentioned this before, but just a reminder that PF will be back in court tomorrow ( at least I think he will be present) for a motions hearing. I doubt we learn anything new (JMO).

Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have thought of this or a couple of different variations of it and it works but still has things that make me wonder. To sneak in, and trust a baby not to cry, wake up, scream and try to hold her, keys, bat (if he had it then), etc., does not seem too sneaky nor the simplest. I think he almost must have been expected back. Yet then that really does not fit with why take her with for a few moments in the first place and/or pick her up in the alley? And it only works if KB told him she was going to take a shower. In that small of a square footage apartment too, someone coming in would be pretty hard to miss if not in the shower. Also in the affidavit, KK says PF told her he killed her in the living room. Unraveling the lies is frustrating...

What if they were getting along or so she thought and he was taking the baby to get that tree that KB told her mother he might want to do with the baby himself? I pictured that as cutting a tree but she is only a one-year-old. Maybe he meant just to pick out a tree or at a close by tree farm? Instead he goes to Wal-mart and grabs one, maybe they have a lot? Or had a tree lot or he simply told her that is where they were going but went to Wal-mart instead to get a tree...? He comes back and is expected?

Yet he tells LE that he picked up Baby K for exchange and did it to show a different time line? Not knowing about the camera?

One final thought, is in #12, it never mentions the baby nor the carrier. Did his trip to Walmart involve handing the baby off to someone else he is maybe protecting? Or was the baby in the truck? But then why would he say she was in the playpen or is that what he simply told KK?

None of these really make no sense either or have holes. Frustrating...

I guess for the moment I figure he had her believing they were spending the day together, whether at mom's or alone. He found a reason to take the baby with but why I am unsure, maybe to please her acting as if they were getting a tree... Most likely it was to be seen on Wal-Mart surveillance to establish a different time line? Yet he was too dumb to think about cameras in KB's neighborhood?

I vague remember PF saying, he wanted to meet KB and baby to take little K with him. When he arrived at WP, KB/K were not at home (because still at Safeway or on their way home). So PF drove to Walmart for some errands. After Walmart he returned to KB's home for changing custody.
Do I confuse this event with another one?
Re the baby carrier: It could be possible, they (PF + KB) had each their own carrier ....

 

[ajaylee]

As the "target shooting" likely never happened, emphasis was on KB had a gun for the first time since 2017.

PF allegedly took gun away (Jan 2017) from KB after she threatened to use it on herself during an argument over finances. Also, CB did not believe KB would go shooting Thanksgiving night as message alleged-- therefore not communicate "and now I'm home safely."

I think when PF made a point of saying that KB was 'sane', it was because if the fake 'suicide' plan worked, some folks might ask why he would have given KB her gun back when he knew she was (allegedly) depressed and struggling with drugs and alcohol abuse. Who would give a gun to someone like that, especially with an infant in the house? That would make him look bad.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't think PF realized at the time that LE would be able to determine she was killed on Thanksgiving. He kept up the rouse that she was alive for several days. He may have sent the message just to make it clear that Kelsey had her gun before she went off on her trip. It's pretty clear from his later message, "Do you even love me anymore?" that he was hoping that was what people would think. Imo

I think the overall point is it was another stupid move on his part as was both of her vehicles being home if he thought anyone would believe that.

 

[SandyQLS]

Sandy, Are we sure baby was w/ him at Walmart? I hadn't heard
that but you could be right.
The pic at the credit union ATM showed an empty baby carrier,
but no baby. This led me to believe the baby was still w/ KB at home at the condo.
Also according to DaveF, only the head and top of shoulders
of PF would show on neighbor's video cue to angle of camera.

The baby is tiny inside her carrier. Even in the video of KB at Safeway, the carrier is seen, but not the baby.

We don't know what time PF went through the credit union ATM drive-thru, but I took the following comment to mean the baby was with PF, not that the carrier was empty:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Adams says he also recovered video of Frazee at the drive through of Ent Credit Union. He says he couldn’t see the baby in the truck, but did see a baby carrier. @KOAA

AA item#11: "Between 1254-1317 hours also on November 22, 2018, Frazee is captured on surveillance footage at a Walmart in Woodland Park, Colorado with a baby carrier with a similar blanket as seen in the Safeway footage. Although (babyK) cannot be clearly seen in the footage, it is highly likely she was in the baby carrier. ...since Frazee appeared at Walmart with (baby K)... "



The neighbor's camera is magical. It only shows the head & shoulders of a tall man, except when it shows 5'3" KB, the baby and the flowers with a tall man.

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
State gives him another still of that neighbor’s surveillance. He says it shows Berreth, Kaylee, Frazee & her flowers out front of Kelsey’s door around 1 p.m. @KOAA# KelseyBerreth #Patrick

I don't know what time PF went to the credit union so I am ignoring it for now as irrelevant to the question I am asking: Why doesn't the neighbor camera show PF taking baby K back inside KB's townhome at 1:24 after the Walmart trip since KK says the baby was in the bavk bedroom during the murder?

 

[Seattle1]

I vague remember PF saying, he wanted to meet KB and baby to take little K with him. When he arrived at WP, KB/K were not at home (because still at Safeway or on their way home). So PF drove to Walmart for some errands. After Walmart he returned to KB's home for changing custody.
Do I confuse this event with another one?

Except PF's trip to Walmart was captured on surveillance where he was seen carrying baby K in carrier similar to the one seen in Safeway surveillance with KB.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

As the "target shooting" likely never happened, emphasis was on KB had a gun for the first time since 2017.

PF allegedly took gun away (Jan 2017) from KB after she threatened to use it on herself during an argument over finances. Also, CB did not believe KB would go shooting Thanksgiving night as message alleged-- therefore not communicate "and now I'm home safely."

OK, I definitely get the part about KB now having her gun back.

But you're saying that part of the message was intended for CB not to believe it? Wouldn't that send up immediate red flags?

Could our crossed wires here be that I am referring to PF's intent in sending the text, and you're referring to how CB actually reacted to it?

I don't think PF realized at the time that LE would be able to determine she was killed on Thanksgiving. He kept up the rouse that she was alive for several days. He may have sent the message just to make it clear that Kelsey had her gun before she went off on her trip. It's pretty clear from his later message, "Do you even love me anymore?" that he was hoping that was what people would think. Imo

OK this helps me a bit. So the text was intended to say "I have the gun back and I've made sure I'm familiar with it again" but not trying to look like she used it on herself during the target shooting, but rather would later be thought she did so somewhere along her supposed trip to see Grandma/trip to clear her head after a breakup? That makes a lot more sense, thanks for the extra explanation. (but brings me right back to why he didn't disappear her car as well, to fit that scene)

 

[ajaylee]

I vague remember PF saying, he wanted to meet KB and baby to take little K with him. When he arrived at WP, KB/K were not at home (because still at Safeway or on their way home). So PF drove to Walmart for some errands. After Walmart he returned to KB's home for changing custody.
Do I confuse this event with another one?

This is another instance where I wonder if we just don't have all the information yet.

LE published footage of KB and Baby K at the market on Thanksgiving morning.

Surely Walmart also has cameras? Presumably PF would not have left Baby K in the carrier in his pickup, nor would he have taken an empty baby carrier into Walmart.

Did Walmart not have footage or is LE keeping quiet for now?

 

[MsBetsy]

Not to mention if he wanted it to look as if she left home on Thanksgiving on a trip, texting that she went shooting Thanksgiving night and came home safely makes absolutely no sense I agree.

I don't think he specifically wanted it to make it look like she left on Thanksgiving. After all, he told CB that they had gone out to dinner that day. I think he made it appear that he found out she had gone on a trip a couple of days later, when he claimed he received text messages from her and sent them to her job as well. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

I vague remember PF saying, he wanted to meet KB and baby to take little K with him. When he arrived at WP, KB/K were not at home (because still at Safeway or on their way home). So PF drove to Walmart for some errands. After Walmart he returned to KB's home for changing custody.
Do I confuse this event with another one?
Re the baby carrier: It could be possible, they (PF + KB) had each their own carrier ....

Per the affidavit, #11, he had the baby carrier with him at Walmart and had picked her up at Kelsey's already. Although not clearly mentioned in the affidavit, they also had footage of the three of them that I think will be in the transcript and is probably in the tweets. They hint at this when in the same part of the affidavit where they say it is the last time KB was seen. So if what you are saying above was said, it was his lies apparently.