CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the overall point is it was another stupid move on his part as was both of her vehicles being home if he thought anyone would believe that.

Maybe, he wanted to prepare the ground for CB thinking, KB could have left with someone, who picked her up.
He says he told Berreth’s mother that Kelsey was spending more time in Pueblo. “I’m not drawing conclusions...” @KOAA#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Because KB's cars stayed in the parking lot (which btw wasn't the case at all time; PF had to drive her car/s back to WP, we know), LE had no reason to search for a car, IF LE would come into play at all. So PF's plans perhaps. MOO

 

[Dave F.]

To clear up one issue:
There is NO CHANCE that the judge would set bail until after the prosecution decides whether to seek the death penalty, or not. I believe they have until early July to decide. Until then, "No bail" is mandatory.
There is VERY LITTLE CHANCE that the judge would set bail in the event that the DP is removed. Murder in the First Degree is the most serious felony charge in Colorado, and there is little precedent for setting bail.
Lawyers, please correct me if needed. IMO

 

[Steelhead]

The baby is tiny inside her carrier. Even in the video of KB at Safeway, the carrier is seen, but not the baby.

We don't know what time PF went through the credit union ATM drive-thru, but I took the following comment to mean the baby was with PF, not that the carrier was empty:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Adams says he also recovered video of Frazee at the drive through of Ent Credit Union. He says he couldn’t see the baby in the truck, but did see a baby carrier. @KOAA

AA item#11: "Between 1254-1317 hours also on November 22, 2018, Frazee is captured on surveillance footage at a Walmart in Woodland Park, Colorado with a baby carrier with a similar blanket as seen in the Safeway footage. Although (babyK) cannot be clearly seen in the footage, it is highly likely she was in the baby carrier. ...since Frazee appeared at Walmart with (baby K)... "



The neighbor's camera is magical. It only shows the head & shoulders of a tall man, except when it shows 5'3" KB, the baby and the flowers with a tall man.

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
State gives him another still of that neighbor’s surveillance. He says it shows Berreth, Kaylee, Frazee & her flowers out front of Kelsey’s door around 1 p.m. @KOAA# KelseyBerreth #Patrick

I don't know what time PF went to the credit union so I am ignoring it for now as irrelevant to the question I am asking: Why doesn't the neighbor camera show PF taking baby K back inside KB's townhome at 1:24 after the Walmart trip since KK says the baby was in the bavk bedroom during the murder?

Maybe he left baby K in the truck at first. Since the surveillance camera’s records seem spotty at best, maybe he fetched her from the truck at some later time?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I would be glad to have helped if it was my motive to point it out lol. I used quotations because the conversation was centering around different reasons for discussing the topic so as I was typing I just naturally put quotation marks around it to question him and his stupid attempts or "ruses". Anyhow.... I don't want to protest too much lol...

I will have to search, I had no idea the entire document was out. I had watched something where they cited parts of it but not all and they said there was much more in it. I am not the best at searching on here either but maybe a general search online will help me find it.

Thanks for the tip and heads up. I don't know how I missed it as I thought I was keeping up fairly well.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Wrongful+death+lawsuit2.pdf
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Amended+complaint+vs+Patrick+Frazee.pdf
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Frazee+motion+to+dismiss.pdf
That's all, what I saved.

 

[ajaylee]

I posted earlier about PF selling off his cattle and using some of the proceeds to pay for feed and the costs of raising the cattle. I assumed he did it because he must have been told he won't be out soon and there's no one to take care of the cattle. I didn't think it was because he needed the money, because he has a public defender.

Just now, as I was looking to see if I could find more on the wrongful death suit filed by KB's parents, I realized: PF has a public defender and SF is paying an attorney to defend PF in the wrongful death suit and she is also paying an attorney in her own suit to gain custody of Baby K.

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe, he wanted to prepare the ground for CB thinking, KB could have left with someone, who picked her up.
He says he told Berreth’s mother that Kelsey was spending more time in Pueblo. “I’m not drawing conclusions...” @KOAA#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Because KB's cars stayed in the parking lot (which btw wasn't the case at all time; PF had to drive her car/s back to WP, we know), LE had no reason to search for a car, IF LE would come into play at all. So PF's plans perhaps. MOO

I get the first paragraph, just another attempt to make it look as if she was the one running around, nor not home or not with the baby.

The second paragraph lost me. I thought both of her vehicles were at home parked at her home throughout after her run to Safeway and all the days after...

 

[MsBetsy]

I would be glad to have helped if it was my motive to point it out lol. I used quotations because the conversation was centering around different reasons for discussing the topic so as I was typing I just naturally put quotation marks around it to question him and his stupid attempts or "ruses". Anyhow.... I don't want to protest too much lol...

I will have to search, I had no idea the entire document was out. I had watched something where they cited parts of it but not all and they said there was much more in it. I am not the best at searching on here either but maybe a general search online will help me find it.

Thanks for the tip and heads up. I don't know how I missed it as I thought I was keeping up fairly well.

I thought you were just being discrete! Anyway, no need to explain.
Yes, the new document has a lot of good information. I think it was about two threads ago, but I'm not sure. I can't even remember which day the hearing was, but I think it was around that time, or maybe right before, so that could be why some people missed it.

 

[mickey2942]

KB was so attractive and beautiful. PF must be a monster. He had a beautiful GF, beautiful baby, and he ruins it.

I guess his only one redeeming value, is that he did not kill the baby as well.

 

[ilovechili]

I posted earlier about PF selling off his cattle and using some of the proceeds to pay for feed and the costs of raising the cattle. I assumed he did it because he must have been told he won't be out soon and there's no one to take care of the cattle. I didn't think it was because he needed the money, because he has a public defender.

Just now, as I was looking to see if I could find more on the wrongful death suit filed by KB's parents, I realized: PF has a public defender and SF is paying an attorney to defend PF in the wrongful death suit and she is also paying an attorney in her own suit to gain custody of Baby K.

I knew she was paying for the one in the custody suit but not that she was paying for the one in the wrongful death suit. Depending on the length of proceedings and more, custody can be a vicious battle if she never gives up, PF's actions may very well destroy his mother financially before things are over. Another victim? I guess that depends. Speculation only but attorney fees add up quickly.

 

[ajaylee]

I get the first paragraph, just another attempt to make it look as if she was the one running around, nor not home or not with the baby.

The second paragraph lost me. I thought both of her vehicles were at home parked at her home throughout after her run to Safeway and all the days after...

IIRC, didn't Slater or someone in LE note that they knew KB's cars hadn't been moved because the snow was undisturbed?

 

[ilovechili]

IIRC, didn't Slater or someone in LE note that they knew KB's cars hadn't been moved because the snow was undisturbed?

I just know that throughout this entire case, I was always under the impression her vehicles were always parked at her house. Although I did wonder how they knew that for all of the days from Thanksgiving to when they finally first did a welfare check at the house and all the days after. Although the dynamic duo having to pick up his vehicle did make me wonder if he had taken one of hers at some point...

 

[TJtennispro]

Over explaining and saying too much is also a trait of lying.
when someone is fibbing they often go on and on with unimportant details. RED FLAG!!!

If the police told me to tell them EVERYTHING then I would tell them every detail I could remember. That’s what they asked for. I don’t think obeying their request is a red flag. MOO

 

[Dave F.]

A word about when PF and KKL might have realized LE was figuring it out:
In Item 9 of the Affidavit Attachment, a telephone interview of PF by LE is described. Although it doesn't give the exact date, the context is shortly after CB reported that KB was missing, on December 2nd in the afternoon.
Likewise, in Sam Kraemer's Twitter descriptions, he describes that phone call being played in the hearing (Twitter message at 9:35 am).
That call most likely happened on December 3rd, and KKL destroyed her personal phone of December 4.
I think it's safe to assume that the phone call from the WPPD was a broad hint to PF that, while he was not yet a POI, he was one the edge of that cliff and the rocks were slipping beneath his feet. IMO
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[ajaylee]

I knew she was paying for the one in the custody suit but not that she was paying for the one in the wrongful death suit. Depending on the length of proceedings and more, custody can be a vicious battle if she never gives up, PF's actions may very well destroy his mother financially before things are over. Another victim? I guess that depends. Speculation only but attorney fees add up quickly.

I don't have hard evidence, but who else could possibly be paying for it? Someone challenged the wrongful death suit because KB's parents didn't have standing to file, so it got amended to file on Baby K's behalf, IIRC.

 

[lindaromas]

Does anyone think it is possible that in the plea deal (unknown to us and it is sealed) or in negotiations before the plea deal that KK also offered to get more info from PF than what she already had, which would also show knowledge that she did not know some things (or PF would ask her why are you asking me that, you already know the answer to that?). This shows LE her level of involvement and they proceed with the deal? If PF saw for a time that she was refusing to cooperate which she was and lawyered up, and she called him or met with him and they surveilled it, he would still trust her as he knew she was "not" cooperating, it might be another way to explain the lighter possible sentence...?

I hate to give her any benefit of the doubt but it has crossed my mind. Or is this impossible? It would explain several things...

Wondering if she visited Colorado anytime after November 24 but before December 4

 

[GordianKnot]

KB was so attractive and beautiful. PF must be a monster. He had a beautiful GF, beautiful baby, and he ruins it.

I guess his only one redeeming value, is that he did not kill the baby as well.

Yep. It's one thing that distinguishes him from CW.

You know you're talking about an evil monster when the most you can say for PF is,
"At least he didn't beat the baby to death with a baseball bat, too."

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

I don't have hard evidence, but who else could possibly be paying for it? Someone challenged the wrongful death suit because KB's parents didn't have standing to file, so it got amended to file on Baby K's behalf, IIRC.

PF could be paying for it.
He sold 96 nead of registered black angus and hereford cattle in January. Several threads back, someone pointed out that his credit score wouldn't merit speculation that he financied those cattle at the bank.
He had no choice in getting a lawyer, as Colorado does not provide legal assistance for civil cases. He hired an excellent one, but that is certainly his choice to make. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

I don't have hard evidence, but who else could possibly be paying for it? Someone challenged the wrongful death suit because KB's parents didn't have standing to file, so it got amended to file on Baby K's behalf, IIRC.

It makes sense because who else as you say would pay for it? Ma also has an attorney to advise her in the criminal case as it referred to her attorney advising her to take the 5th. It could be I guess an area attorney she knows and a general one that is covering the civil suit as well. I have not been to the Colorado court site, does it list the attorneys in the cases? I wonder if it is someone high powered or local. Either way, it is going to cause her some expense no doubt.

I also wondered how KK paid for such a high powered attorney. However, who knows what her situation is, hard to say. I don't even think we know what kind or age of vehicle she drives lmao, she is always in someone else's--friend's, aunt's and hubby's to get a phone...

 

[ilovechili]

Wondering if she visited Colorado anytime after November 24 but before December 4

Me too. For several reasons, this being one.

 

[SandyQLS]

That has crossed my mind although the timeline leaves me doubting someone in bad shape can stay alive in a closed tote for that long... Yet perhaps it is possible. KK has a very odd emphasis on having not ever seen the body, except "sort of" in the fire. I have times I wonder if she did take the body with her, she took everything else... I sure hope they inspected the loaned vehicle, I see no reason why they wouldn't...

I too feel the gun, and possibly both of them, play into this in some way. The text that KB went to the shooting range explains hers being shot as well if they need to explain it. The guns bother me as well. Was there another attempt that missed, hence the missing bullet? Had she had this gun before she ever had the car? Had her friend loaned it to her for another reason? It says in the AA there were at least three attempts, it does not say they were the only. It mentions multiple requests by PF to her if I recall correctly.

Just thoughts and speculation.

I am wondering if the consumptive testing is to check for backblow? blood and KB DNA in the barrel of either or both recovered guns. Maybe we will find out tomorrow. Has anyone asked Sam Kraemer if the media is allowed in the hearing tomorrow to tweet?