CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[ilovechili]

This is another instance where I wonder if we just don't have all the information yet.

LE published footage of KB and Baby K at the market on Thanksgiving morning.

Surely Walmart also has cameras? Presumably PF would not have left Baby K in the carrier in his pickup, nor would he have taken an empty baby carrier into Walmart.

Did Walmart not have footage or is LE keeping quiet for now?

Most Walmarts I am aware of have some of the best cameras on entry, exit and everywhere inside the store as well. If he indeed went in, it never actually says that either I do not think.

I suspect they have more, as you said, they published KB's picture but we have seen none of the others. I suspect these are some of the exhibits which for some reason have not been released yet.

jmo.

ETA: Meaning he could have been picked up in the parking lot only with the carrier in the truck again also, like with the bank, I would think that picture would not be as clear.

One could not see the baby in the carrier with Kelsey but I have seen enhanced pictures since where one can... imo.

 

[justaparent]

Trials are so fascinating and some of the strategies a Defense can play is they will sometimes ask a witness a question that they know is not allowed and even though the Prosecution team will object to the question and it will be sustained by the judge, the Defense has let the cat out of the bag and got their point across to the jury.

And if they aren’t careful they can introduce something that might be helpful later on to the prosecution. At least that’s my understanding, that if one side introduces something that might not have been quite legit the other side can Use their info about it, too. Maybe one of the attorneys can explain if that works when something is either overruled or sustained.

 

[ab01]

I don't think he specifically wanted it to make it look like she left on Thanksgiving. After all, he told CB that they had gone out to dinner that day. I think he made it appear that he found out she had gone on a trip a couple of days later, when he claimed he received text messages from her and sent them to her job as well. Imo

Yah I think he was trying to buy some time to get rid of things and clean up.moo

 

[ilovechili]

I don't think he specifically wanted it to make it look like she left on Thanksgiving. After all, he told CB that they had gone out to dinner that day. I think he made it appear that he found out she had gone on a trip a couple of days later, when he claimed he received text messages from her and sent them to her job as well. Imo

I truly am not so concerned as to whether he wanted it to look that way or not. I guess the point is as usual his "ruses" make no sense, like the car vehicles being home. As in so many of both of the perps actions I guess.

I know of nothing about him saying they went out to dinner to CB? Where did I miss that?

 

[ajaylee]

Question for our legal folks: I've read that this case may not actually go to trial soon - it may take as long as two years.

What are the chances PF will be granted bail?

There was a great deal of knowledgeable discussion about PF's cattle sale last fall. It looked like he was basically liquidating his herd, based on the types of cattle he sold. I realize much of the money from the sales would go to repay the loans for feed, etc. The balance clearly didn't go to pay for a high-powered attorney. I seriously doubt that SF could have handled the cattle on her own.

Were they selling because they'd been advised that PF probably won't be home taking care of the cows anytime soon - ie, he isn't likely to get bail?

One of the reasons I would hate to see him get bail is that I think he might start demanding custody of Baby K. I would hope that he wouldn't be successful, but even so, KB's parents don't need any more grief. It's bad enough this guy murdered their daughter; it would be much worse to have to fight him for custody of Baby K.

 

[MsBetsy]

OK, I definitely get the part about KB now having her gun back.

But you're saying that part of the message was intended for CB not to believe it? Wouldn't that send up immediate red flags?

Could our crossed wires here be that I am referring to PF's intent in sending the text, and you're referring to how CB actually reacted to it?



OK this helps me a bit. So the text was intended to say "I have the gun back and I've made sure I'm familiar with it again" but not trying to look like she used it on herself during the target shooting, but rather would later be thought she did so somewhere along her supposed trip to see Grandma/trip to clear her head after a breakup? That makes a lot more sense, thanks for the extra explanation. (but brings me right back to why he didn't disappear her car as well, to fit that scene)

Yes, he also told KK to get rid of the gun so it would look like she went to "off herself" (KK's tactful words.)
As for the car, in the wrongful death suit CB mentions something about Patrick saying something about her and a co- worker going off somewhere in a plane, so maybe he figured she would think she got a ride from the friend? Obviously they would have discounted that early on, but who knows what he was thinking. There are many examples of how he did not plan very well. Imo

 

[ajaylee]

I truly am not so concerned as to whether he wanted it to look that way or not. I guess the point is as usual his "ruses" make no sense, like the car vehicles being home. As in so many of both of the perps actions I guess.

I know of nothing about him saying they went out to dinner to CB? Where did I miss that?

IIRC, that was an actual phone call between PF and CB. PF mentioned 'that restaurant' that KB's dad liked, the Cracker Barrel.

 

[ilovechili]

Question for our legal folks: I've read that this case may not actually go to trial soon - it may take as long as two years.

What are the chances PF will be granted bail?

There was a great deal of knowledgeable discussion about PF's cattle sale last fall. It looked like he was basically liquidating his herd, based on the types of cattle he sold. I realize much of the money from the sales would go to repay the loans for feed, etc. The balance clearly didn't go to pay for a high-powered attorney. I seriously doubt that SF could have handled the cattle on her own.

Were they selling because they'd been advised that PF probably won't be home taking care of the cows anytime soon - ie, he isn't likely to get bail?

One of the reasons I would hate to see him get bail is that I think he might start demanding custody of Baby K. I would hope that he wouldn't be successful, but even so, KB's parents don't need any more grief. It's bad enough this guy murdered their daughter; it would be much worse to have to fight him for custody of Baby K.

I am no legal person but I can say he has a public defender doesn't he? So I would imagine he had to show he has little to no income, etc. for that... Not sure how they look at assets. If someone like mama raises bail, he is out. I do not see his family having that kind of money, they would have to probably liquidate everything and vouch for him not fleeing, etc. when out and clearly she is not so far footing any bill for an attorney either for him.

The only other thing I know just from seeing it happen is the defense can argue for reduced bail but I don't see much basis. I would think he would be seen as a flight risk, his daughter is not at home without him, nor any other valid reason he should be out. And this is murder.

jmo and I would be interested to hear the experts' opinions on it.

I do think a trial is going to be probably two years out. At minimum.

 

[ab01]

Yes, he also told KK to get rid of the gun so it would look like she went to "off herself" (KK's tactful words.)
As for the car, in the wrongful death suit CB mentions something about Patrick saying something about her and a co- worker going off somewhere in a plane, so maybe he figured she would think she got a ride from the friend? Obviously they would have discounted that early on, but who knows what he was thinking. There are many examples of how he did not plan very well. Imo

I think he was simply trying to insert a few different scenarios to LE without it actually seeming like he knew something. It probably all made sense in his head. But he forgot about little details that didn’t add up etc. I’m guessing a lot like when LE first contacted CW that they were already thinking, man something is off about this guy.

 

[ilovechili]

IIRC, that was an actual phone call between PF and CB. PF mentioned 'that restaurant' that KB's dad liked, the Cracker Barrel.

I have seen references to Cracker Barrel but was unsure where they came from. It must have been in some reporter's tweets where it was not in others or something. I am pretty sure it is not in the AA. So he said they had went to dinner there on Thanksgiving or another day?

 

[MsBetsy]

I truly am not so concerned as to whether he wanted it to look that way or not. I guess the point is as usual his "ruses" make no sense, like the car vehicles being home. As in so many of both of the perps actions I guess.

I know of nothing about him saying they went out to dinner to CB? Where did I miss that?

It's in the wrongful death suit. PF claimed that they had gone to Cracker Barrell, her father's favorite restaurant.
Yes, there are many things that don't make sense. So many times we see that these types of criminals put much more into the planning than thinking about the consequences of their actions. They don't think so much about the cover- up, which is why they get caught!
Serial killers often say that every killer makes some kind of mistake.
(Thanks for pointing out the typo, I didn't mean to say he "roused" her, as if from sleep.) That would be a little creepy. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I have seen references to Cracker Barrel but was unsure where they came from. It must have been in some reporter's tweets where it was not in others or something. I am pretty sure it is not in the AA. So he said they had went to dinner there on Thanksgiving or another day?

Delete, I already said that. Oops.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think he was simply trying to insert a few different scenarios to LE without it actually seeming like he knew something. It probably all made sense in his head. But he forgot about little details that didn’t add up etc. I’m guessing a lot like when LE first contacted CW that they were already thinking, man something is off about this guy.

Yup. Apparently it must be very difficult to pull off a murder, and get away with it. Good thing.

 

[ilovechili]

It's in the wrongful death suit. PF claimed that they had gone to Cracker Barrell, her father's favorite restaurant.
Yes, there are many things that don't make sense. So many times we see that these types of criminals put much more into the planning than thinking about the consequences of their actions. They don't think so much about the cover- up, which is why they get caught!
Serial killers often say that every killer makes some kind of mistake.
(Thanks for pointing out the typo, I didn't mean to say he "roused" her, as if from sleep.) That would be a little creepy. Imo

I was not pointing out a typo believe it or not. Not even sure what you are talking about, I would have to look back. I simply said "ruses" to point out his tricks and that they were his stupid "tricks". Seriously, I would not do that or my posts could be picked apart to death lol

I agree with you on the mistakes and cover ups. I wonder if Cracker Barrel surveillance was checked or how quickly it covers up its recordings. We know they were not there anyhow if it was Thanksgiving at least. Were they even open?

I read somewhere that there is way more in the complaint filed in the civil action. I have never seen that entirely released either although I believe media has it. I am surprised someone in Colorado has not went and obtained it and released it quite honestly. I did see and hear of bits in it that were stated, but not the Cracker Barrel part.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[Katerz]

I heard a quote on how to get away with murder when I was watching it last night.. and for me, it rang true.

It was something along the lines of “just because you want something to be true, doesn’t make it the truth.” And I thought about this case when I heard it. About PF trying to tarnish KB’s mothering ability, that she was on drugs/alcohol (about the “rehab”), and people trying to say that KK was the killer.

 

[ajaylee]

I was not pointing out a typo believe it or not. Not even sure what you are talking about, I would have to look back. I simply said "ruses" to point out his tricks and that they were his stupid "tricks". Seriously, I would not do that or my posts could be picked apart to death lol

I agree with you on the mistakes and cover ups. I wonder if Cracker Barrel surveillance was checked or how quickly it covers up its recordings. We know they were not there anyhow if it was Thanksgiving at least. Were they even open?

I read somewhere that there is way more in the complaint filed in the civil action. I have never seen that entirely released either although I believe media has it. I am surprised someone in Colorado has not went and obtained it and released it quite honestly. I did see and hear of bits in it that were stated, but not the Cracker Barrel part.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

They might only need camera footage for backup. It looks like the Cracker Barrel he would have been talking about is in Pueblo.

The cellphone pings are probably enough to expose this lie.

IMHO, of course!

 

[MsBetsy]

I was not pointing out a typo believe it or not. Not even sure what you are talking about, I would have to look back. I simply said "ruses" to point out his tricks and that they were his stupid "tricks". Seriously, I would not do that or my posts could be picked apart to death lol

I agree with you on the mistakes and cover ups. I wonder if Cracker Barrel surveillance was checked or how quickly it covers up its recordings. We know they were not there anyhow if it was Thanksgiving at least. Were they even open?

I read somewhere that there is way more in the complaint filed in the civil action. I have never seen that entirely released either although I believe media has it. I am surprised someone in Colorado has not went and obtained it and released it quite honestly. I did see and hear of bits in it that were stated, but not the Cracker Barrel part.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Well, I'm glad you put it in quotes because that's what made me check my post. I would rather someone point it out than leave it up there with the wrong meaning.
The wrongful death suit is posted here somewhere. Maybe someone can repost it, I don't know how. I think it was revised or changed from the first one. There is alot of useful information in it, with examples of all the lies PF told, in more detail.
If Pommy is around she will find it.
Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

They might only need camera footage for backup. It looks like the Cracker Barrel he would have been talking about is in Pueblo.

The cellphone pings are probably enough to expose this lie.

IMHO, of course!

I think someone posted a while back that it was one of the only restaurants open on Thanksgiving, and that they serve a really good meal. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I heard a quote on how to get away with murder when I was watching it last night.. and for me, it rang true.

It was something along the lines of “just because you want something to be true, doesn’t make it the truth.” And I thought about this case when I heard it. About PF trying to tarnish KB’s mothering ability, that she was on drugs/alcohol (about the “rehab”), and people trying to say that KK was the killer.

Even experienced serial killers make mistakes, so the fact that PF made many doesn't surprise me at all. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Well, I'm glad you put it in quotes because that's what made me check my post. I would rather someone point it out than leave it up there with the wrong meaning.
The wrongful death suit is posted here somewhere. Maybe someone can repost it, I don't know how. I think it was revised or changed from the first one. There is alot of useful information in it, with examples of all the lies PF told, in more detail.
If Pommy is around she will find it.
Imo

I would be glad to have helped if it was my motive to point it out lol. I used quotations because the conversation was centering around different reasons for discussing the topic so as I was typing I just naturally put quotation marks around it to question him and his stupid attempts or "ruses". Anyhow.... I don't want to protest too much lol...

I will have to search, I had no idea the entire document was out. I had watched something where they cited parts of it but not all and they said there was much more in it. I am not the best at searching on here either but maybe a general search online will help me find it.

Thanks for the tip and heads up. I don't know how I missed it as I thought I was keeping up fairly well.