CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[NoeticSoul]

Good morning. It's really sad and disgusting to see this on the local news every single day Watching the folks sift through GARBAGE 25 feet deep for the possible remains of poor Kelsey. I cannot imagine what her parents and family must be thinking and feeling. Prayers go out to them while this dump search goes forward. I hope they find something for their sake so they can lay her to rest.

 

[Elley Mae]

I can imagine him telling her that detail. She asked him, for example, how did you get the body out to the truck without being seen?

He may have said something like ' I carried the tote out front, set it down behind the car, and then made sure no one was around, before I moved it to the truck, after locking up....'

Here’s my issue with the tote leaving the house.
.....

The cross-examination went on to detail the surveillance photos that captured Frazee entering and exiting Berreth’s apartment. Adams said Frazee was not seen leaving with a black tote, and that he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Adams said it did not show Lee (Krystal Kenney) inside of Berreth’s apartment, and that after she disappeared, no one came to the door except someone who works for a utility company and a friend of Frazee’s who was picking up a package.

....

Pk wasn’t seen leaving w/tote.
Kk wasn’t seen “inside” Kelsey’s apartment.

Is there a second door, (sliding)? Or was a window left open.?

 

[lindaromas]

I'm struggling here folks, for 3 days I've been searching for the affidavit that everyone is taking clips from and I can't find it! Could someone please provide me a link?

Edit/add I want all the details that KK gave up please!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here's the 4 pack https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilit...hguid=8f1b1ab7-9fb-169302794247dc&athena=true

I got goosebumps looking at that link and when I saw it was connected to a WAL MART, no way do you think PF would have gotten it there that very day?

I was thinking of an alternate scenario, bear with me what if...
PF kept KB out purposely late on Wed night 11/21. If she had worked that day before TG, she would have been dog tired after getting home and going out with PF shooting her gun, checking on the cattle and then running out to get poor sensitive stomached PF his tummy meds, and not back to the townhouse until 3-4 am.

KB spoke to CB a couple of times that morning. There are some vague plans about TG and a request for a recipe. KB goes out to Safeway with baby K, and either PF was waiting for her or followed her from Safeway bc they all showed back up entering KB's door around 12:45ish. PF and Baby K leave around 1 pm and return shortly back to the KB's.

What happened within that 15-20 minute timeframe. Did KB and PF argue <I think they did>? Did PF tell KB to shower, relax and he'd take baby K so she could rest up a bit before going to MamaF's? Did PF run out to Walmart, grab that dreaded Tote, and sneak back in with those items while KB was showering or napping and begin to beat her with the baseball bat?

OR, did he kill her before he even left the townhome with baby K to go to Walmart? Runs there to get the tote, loads KB's body in and carries it out. I know KK has said PF killed KB with a baseball bat, but what if he didn't.

He could have beaten her with his fists, he could have shot her. I know the gun theory isn't popular, but her next door neighbor was gone and would anyone really notice 1 single gunshot on a busy TG afternoon? That could cause a traumatic facial/head injury with lots of pooling blood, spray pattern and tooth loss.

The gun and the talk of PF returning KB's gun, and them out target shooting Wed night has my hinky meter way up, maybe PF was trying to establish that KB had her gun back, <KB's text to CB about having it and being safe??, PF stating he returned her gun>, and was despondent and could have killed herself with it after they 'exchanged custody' of Baby K. IOW, PF really wanted to associate KB's access to her gun again for some reason.

I don't believe KK told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I just don't. However, there is no doubt that PF did this and did this alone. KK came in and cleaned it up, but PF did the deed.

All MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm struggling here folks, for 3 days I've been searching for the affidavit that everyone is taking clips from and I can't find it! Could someone please provide me a link?

Edit/add I want all the details that KK gave up please!

I found it in the media thread posted on the 20th.

https://media.krdo.com/npg-krdo-med...est Warrant_1550677282748_35101921_ver1.0.pdf

Here is the media thread itself in case you want to subscribe to it for the future.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Julia966]

Don't mean to be picky, but It's "Ent Federal Credit Union". It's named after Major General Uzal Girard Ent, US Air Force. During the Cold War, Ent Air Force Base in Colorado Springs was the center of the nation's atomic defense. Many people grew up listening them track Santa Claus every Christmas Eve on the "Big Board Map of the World". The decomissioned grounds are now the headquarters of the United States Olympic Committee and the State Games organization.
Uzal Girard Ent

Interesting. All I can think of when I see the credit union mentioned is Treebeard and his compatriots attacking Isengard.

 

[lindaromas]

I found it in the media thread posted on the 20th.

https://media.krdo.com/npg-krdo-media-us-east-1/document_dev/2019/02/20/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant_1550677282748_35101921_ver1.0.pdf

Here is the media thread itself in case you want to subscribe to it for the future.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

Thank you so much dixiegirl!

 

[girlhasnoname]

This.

I've also wondered if KB was coming off a failed relationship, feeling the biological clock ticking, and PF was something of a rebound. IIRC, her parents weren't smitten - they thought he was a bit of an 'odd duck'.

Personally, if I see a 32-year-old single man who still lives with his mother and has never been married or had children, I don't just see an eligible bachelor; I see warning flags. Sometimes if something seems too good to be true, that's because it is.

IMHO

BBM
ITA, but with the new population related reports, it's not as uncommon these days. I still see it as a 'failure to launch' in PF's scenario, but I guess there's something to be said about the socioeconomic nature of running a ranchette LOL. JMO

More young adults are living at home, and for longer stretches

 

[Julia966]

BBM
ITA, but with the new population related reports, it's not as uncommon these days. I still see it as a 'failure to launch' in PF's scenario, but I guess there's something to be said about the socioeconomic nature of running a ranchette LOL. JMO

More young adults are living at home, and for longer stretches

Do we know if he ever left home?

 

[PommyMommy]

But this was according to KK, right?

Initially, yes. Then CBI obtained another warrant and took KK to KB's home on Dec. 21 where she pointed out the blood "she left." They also found blood that had seeped through the floorboards, white residue on the couch, and a film on appliances that had been cleaned. The DNA testing had not been done at the time of PF's arrest, however.
MOO

 

[Noharg]

FYI -Blood splatter article-easy to read
Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Principles
Discusses gun shot splatter, splatter from an object being swung, and transfer blood.

 

[PommyMommy]

This comment I find interesting

The statement in the affifavit can only be from the interview with KK, her claiming PF told her that. So multiple teeth were dislodged - what did he do with them?

And she claims she picked up the one tooth he mentioned that was in a vent.

I wonder if LE actually found another tooth.

If LE found a tooth, that would have been included in the affidavit IMO. I think PF collected anything in clear view but suspected one tooth may have gone down the vent and left that one up to KK to find.

New Year’s Day 2017 is Jan 1, 2017. Baby K was born in Oct 2017 so KB would not even be pregnant on Jan 1 2017.

It makes more sense as New Year’s Day 2018 (Jan 1, 2018)

It does make more sense but it's doubtful to me that this ever happened at all.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Do we know if he ever left home?

I don't think he did.

Patrick Frazee 'was having an affair for months' with Idaho nurse | Daily Mail Online
The mother-of-three is at all of her son's hearings, filed the custody motion and for the past 20 years has lived alone with Frazee on her 35-acre ranch.

MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The two bolded statements are problematic to me. I think KK is lying about some things in her story to LE. She had not been to Nash Ranch yet, but she told cops she was "going back." Then the bit about going to KB's townhome with PF to get PF's pickup truck which KK said was at Nash Ranch backing up to the haystack to get the tote with the body!

If indeed a pickup truck of PF stayed at KB's place, it would have been the red one, I think. So it would have been like always and the neighbor would have mentioned nothing extraordinary, when s/he returned from TG-visit.
If so, then the red one of PF's truck couldn't have been the Toyota Tacoma.
The Toyota Tacoma was used for the transport of the tote to Nash Ranch.
That bank video was on Nov. 22. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney
Two more exhibits from the state. First is a still of him on the surveillance at the bank showing him. Second shows the back of his truck, with a black tote in it. He says they learned that tote played a big role in what happened to Kelsey Berreth. @KOAA#KelseyBerreth
Did the surveillance show a Toyota Tacoma? Which colour?
-.-
Cheryl thought it was Westcliffe but wasn’t sure. Slater says, per that convo, Frazee had what was believed to be a stomach ulcer. Kelsey dropped off Frazee, went to the WP Walmart to get meds & then went back to Florissant to give him the meds. @KOAA#KelseyBerreth

IMO: The night of 21st KB and PF looked after cattle with one of PF's vehicles (Toyota Tacoma?), then KB dropped him off at the ranchette, then went back to the ranchette with the meds from Walmart, then drove home to WP probably, without PF. - So, one car of him stayed at KB and the next day -TG- he had to come with another one of his several cars. It must have been the red pickup truck, which he parked behind KB's 2 cars, when he arrived in WP at noon.
-.-
KB had a Toyota Corolla (green) and a pickup truck (red), standing in her parking lot.

State gives Adams a DVD. He says it’s a recording of a phone call with Patrick Frazee. It was recorded by WPPD officers that made first contact with him. They’re going to play it for us. @KOAA#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
“She was sane...” He (PF) says he tried to tell her everyone has bumps in the road, and that she wasn’t suicidal. He says she “just had enough of the arrangement.” @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee
Frazee says he took her vehicles back to her place. I couldn’t make out what he said about her gun. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee

I wonder, which vehicles (plural) PF took back and when exactly. How did he manage it, to drive his own car and "vehicles" (in total at least 3) to WP ...
-.-
I think, you are as confused now as I am. Too many cars in the play.

I think there are two Toyota trucks belonging to PF involved. The one mentioned as bringing the body from the hay barn to the ranch was "ancient". I don't think anyone would refer to the red 2008 pickup we saw in the news clips as 'ancient', so I believe there's an older truck involved, a 90s or even 80s/70s era truck. (of course anything before '95 is not a Tacoma but rather just a Toyota pickup, but in my life experience as a fan of Toyota trucks I can say that people are generally careless about the use of the name Tacoma to all Toyota pickups).

We know PF was at KB's midday Thurs in the 2008 red Tacoma, and the tote was seen in that truck in the bank video, but was that video pre or post killing?

It sounds like he used the 2008 red truck to get from WP to Nash, and then the 'ancient' Toyota to get from Nash to ranchette 2 days later, this time with KK present and some other truck of his having since been left in WP and needing to be shuttled back to the ranchette in some logistics we don't yet know details of.

Late Thanksgiving night, Cheryl Berreth said she received a text message from her daughter saying that Frazee had returned her gun and she had gone shooting that night.

I question the use of the words "that night". If the text actually said or implied "tonight" that would mean that the target shooting never happened, because KB was already dead by then. I was confused earlier thinking this text message, while sent Thursday post-death by PF posing as KB, was actually referring to events on Weds night (same night as cattle checking and ulcer medicine). If it was actually pretending to refer to events on Thurs night then it makes a lot more sense to me! Someone please set me straight...

 

[ajaylee]

I will feel a whole lot better about the case when we get clarification of kk's whereabouts 19+20+21+22 nov.
the omission is troubling.
why would she have turned off google location on her phone in the days BEFORE and of KBs murder ?????while she is just living life??

wouldn't be that difficult to give your phone to a friend and get them to use it for you.
kk was very happy using burner phones at free will.

dads word and phone pings are not enough for this cynical mind.

I pray kk was in Idaho as she states. we need her to be.
but this evidence so far is not enough,there HAS to be more.imo

BBM

She lied to her husband about where she was going to be over Thanksgiving weekend. He apparently had access to her google account and her cellphone at times.

That excuse does have holes in it. KK sent a fake text to MG asking to spend the night because she'd had too much to drink and couldn't make it home to Idaho. That was a lie - supposedly it was in case her ex-husband saw her texts? Really? What about all the texts between KK and PF? Did she immediately delete them so her ex-husband wouldn't see them?

Access to her google account? It appears to have been a reasonably amicable divorce, because it seems they were still living under the same roof two years later. Post-divorce, even an amicable divorce, I think its perfectly reasonable to change passwords to anything your ex had access to while you were married.

Like so much of KK's account, there's nothing really specifically wrong, but it just smells ever so slightly off.

 

[MsJosie]

Here’s my issue with the tote leaving the house.
.....

The cross-examination went on to detail the surveillance photos that captured Frazee entering and exiting Berreth’s apartment. Adams said Frazee was not seen leaving with a black tote, and that he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Adams said it did not show Lee (Krystal Kenney) inside of Berreth’s apartment, and that after she disappeared, no one came to the door except someone who works for a utility company and a friend of Frazee’s who was picking up a package.

....

Pk wasn’t seen leaving w/tote.
Kk wasn’t seen “inside” Kelsey’s apartment.

Is there a second door, (sliding)? Or was a window left open.?

In an earlier thread/post, someone showed a picture of the townhouse and said there was a window which looked out the side, where the land grass was higher. The tote could have been pushed out the window and anyone could have climbed out it. The window as I remember was a large sliding window, but not a sliding door.

If someone saved the townhouse pictures could you please repost it? Thank you.

 

[ohio2013]

Former FBI profiler discusses Patrick Frazee's murder charge

I think this is allowed. It's an interesting read.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think there are two Toyota trucks belonging to PF involved. The one mentioned as bringing the body from the hay barn to the ranch was "ancient". I don't think anyone would refer to the red 2008 pickup we saw in the news clips as 'ancient', so I believe there's an older truck involved, a 90s or even 80s/70s era truck. (of course anything before '95 is not a Tacoma but rather just a Toyota pickup, but in my life experience as a fan of Toyota trucks I can say that people are generally careless about the use of the name Tacoma to all Toyota pickups).

We know PF was at KB's midday Thurs in the 2008 red Tacoma, and the tote was seen in that truck in the bank video, but was that video pre or post killing?

It sounds like he used the 2008 red truck to get from WP to Nash, and then the 'ancient' Toyota to get from Nash to ranchette 2 days later, this time with KK present and some other truck of his having since been left in WP and needing to be shuttled back to the ranchette in some logistics we don't yet know details of.

I question the use of the words "that night". If the text actually said or implied "tonight" that would mean that the target shooting never happened, because KB was already dead by then. I was confused earlier thinking this text message, while sent Thursday post-death by PF posing as KB, was actually referring to events on Weds night (same night as cattle checking and ulcer medicine). If it was actually pretending to refer to events on Thurs night then it makes a lot more sense to me! Someone please set me straight...

The text message sent Thursday night stating PF had returned the gun and that she went shooting is assumed to have been sent by PF.
However, I think the reason it is so confusing is because we have only heard bits and pieces of the text messages and phone calls between Kelsey ( and/or) and her mother.
Slater also stated that CB also told him that Kelsey had said PF returned the gun and she felt safe now. I'm not sure if he indicated whether or not that was contained within the same text, or a phone call, or a different text.
Either way, I'm sure when or if we ever hear about all the communication in context it will probably be more clear. There is reportedly a huge amount of cell phone data we haven't even heard yet. Imo

 

[kay74]

This case will eventually be turned into an episode of "Evil Lives Here." Two people, possibly three, developed a diabolical scheme and none are capable of telling the whole truth. PF has serial domestic abuser written all over him and I think he has his mother to thank for it.

My money is on PF's mother who didn't like the custody arrangement and didn't like KB or her parents. Perhaps she didn't respect their religious practices or was upset the baby's birth certificate didn't carry PF's name. She'd find a way to blame them for something and everything.

Mother Frazee wanted PF (and herself) to have full custody. The only way to do that is to convince a court that KB was unfit such as drugs/alcohol abuse. But KB's stint in the depression treatment center was a year earlier. That wouldn't be recent enough or serious enough to satisfy a judge the baby was unsafe. Thus, they launched their campaign to smear KB's good character and KK was ready and willing to take it to the next level.

JMO

I hope it's not true.We just get done with Ma Watts so maybe we are all getting paranoid. I think Ma Frazee made him miserable with her money woes but KB would have been the perfect daughter-in-law, she worked, she owned her own place. She paid her own way. Maybe Ma Frazee didn't want him to leave her house, she needed him to work on the ranch and bring in money thus no marriage for him. I still do not see the reason for killing her. She wasn't going anywhere with her little daughter, she owned her home there. It's crazy. Even if they broke up they could share custody.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think there are two Toyota trucks belonging to PF involved. The one mentioned as bringing the body from the hay barn to the ranch was "ancient". I don't think anyone would refer to the red 2008 pickup we saw in the news clips as 'ancient', so I believe there's an older truck involved, a 90s or even 80s/70s era truck. (of course anything before '95 is not a Tacoma but rather just a Toyota pickup, but in my life experience as a fan of Toyota trucks I can say that people are generally careless about the use of the name Tacoma to all Toyota pickups).

We know PF was at KB's midday Thurs in the 2008 red Tacoma, and the tote was seen in that truck in the bank video, but was that video pre or post killing?

It sounds like he used the 2008 red truck to get from WP to Nash, and then the 'ancient' Toyota to get from Nash to ranchette 2 days later, this time with KK present and some other truck of his having since been left in WP and needing to be shuttled back to the ranchette in some logistics we don't yet know details of.

I question the use of the words "that night". If the text actually said or implied "tonight" that would mean that the target shooting never happened, because KB was already dead by then. I was confused earlier thinking this text message, while sent Thursday post-death by PF posing as KB, was actually referring to events on Weds night (same night as cattle checking and ulcer medicine). If it was actually pretending to refer to events on Thurs night then it makes a lot more sense to me! Someone please set me straight...

To your last point, this is my understanding:

Thanksgiving morning at 9 am: KB and CB talked on the phone for about 5 minutes. KB said she and K were with PF Wed night and KB was up until 4 a.m. because they were checking his cattle, then she went to Walmart to get him some medication and took it to him at the ranch.

Late Thanksgiving evening: CB received a text from KB's phone that PF returned her gun and they had gone shooting Thursday night. I believe this text was sent by PF.

MOO