CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[dixiegirl1035]

There's so much confusion between the AA and the tweets from the preliminary hearing. Is there any chance that there will be a transcript released from the Feb. 19th hearing? It really would help clear up a few things, or not

I doubt it very much. I see it mentioned often here, but I don't see that happen very often.

 

[Julia966]

Yes indeed. This makes NO sense whatsoever, building a rapport with someone you're supposed to poison, all at PF's direction no less. She's still a liar in my books.

KK has spun a few tales and the defence will "have at her" for it. I recall either in the AA or the tweets from the courtroom (can't remember which) it was stated that KK's timeline was a bit jumbled. No doubt. She was running on empty with almost no sleep. I'm still trying to figure out why they had to go back to KB's to pick up a truck Has anyone here sorted that out? I do recall it was stated that they loaded the "black plastic tote with the silver handles" (just a reminder ) into PF's red pickup at Nash Ranch to transport to the ranchette for burning. Any ideas? Or has this already been sorted out?

I don't know, I could see it being useful to PF to have a second person who could get close to KB. I'm not saying KK is not lying about some things, but it doesn't seem ridiculous to me that he would suggest this idea to KK.

 

[ilovechili]

There's so much confusion between the AA and the tweets from the preliminary hearing. Is there any chance that there will be a transcript released from the Feb. 19th hearing? It really would help clear up a few things, or not

It would sure clear up what was really said. Assuming the court reporter had good acoustics

 

[ilovechili]

I doubt it very much. I see it mentioned often here, but I don't see that happen very often.

I do not understand why. If it was some secret hearing that would be different but it was not. The press was present, members of the public were present. All tweets are based on it. And if there was any portion that had any reason to be sealed, they just would not provide that part. The information is out there anyhow (tweets). I am surprised the press has not obtained it just to verify and correct any of their own tweets... imo.

 

[PommyMommy]

Summary of this morning's hearing:

1. Consumptive Testing Motion is deferred until after arraignment.
2. There are 22 search warrants with returns and 6 without returns (have not been executed). The 22 (with some redactions) will be released this week - the majority of them are Facebook, Google and Verizon records, dating back to Dec. 19.
3. Exhibits (photos and audio) from the preliminary hearing will not be released to the public. Prosecution and defense in agreement.
4. Judge reschedules arraignment for 8:30 a.m. at April 5. PF will enter plea and trial date will be scheduled.

 

[PommyMommy]

Search warrants in Kelsey Berreth murder investigation to be made public
Search warrants in the Kelsey Berreth murder investigation will be made public, a judge announced Monday.

11 News reporter Ashley Franco live-tweeted during the proceedings: (see article for Ashley's tweets)

More documents in Frazee case to be released later this week
While Sells allowed the release of 22 of the 28 warrants, he did not allow the exhibits displayed at the preliminary hearing to be made public. Both the prosecution and defense agreed that they did not want those released ahead of the trial.

[...]

In addition to those decisions, the state and defense agreed to move a decision about consumptive evidence testing until after Frazee’s arraignment.

Consumptive testing involves evidence that can only be tested one time, likely due to the size of the evidence or the material in question.

That piece of evidence remains unknown following Monday’s hearing.

Frazee’s arraignment is now scheduled for Friday, April 5 at 8:30 a.m., when he could enter a plea.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I do not understand why. If it was some secret hearing that would be different but it was not. The press was present, members of the public were present. All tweets are based on it. And if there was any portion that had any reason to be sealed, they just would not provide that part. The information is out there anyhow (tweets). I am surprised the press has not obtained it just to verify and correct any of their own tweets... imo.

I don't think they have any reason, as far as the press, to update. They were there and they did the reports even though some were misleading and or correct. Some of them corrected later.

It is rarely done that I have ever seen in any trials that I have followed.

Moo.

They would have to do the payment for transcription, that would take a couple of months, and then perhaps they would try to share it with other news organizations. By then, it is old news.

I don't think they have a reason to pay that information right now. We saw today there were only a few reporters.

ETA transcriptions of proceedings are not part of public information in my opinion. In other words, it is not free like all the other things that we see. Someone has to pay for it. In my opinion.

I'm trying to remember which trials in the past have had exact transcriptions which are a day's worth or the whole trials worth released?

does anyone recall a trial where that has been done lately? Far and few between if I cannot even recall one

 

[ilovechili]

I guess things are different everywhere and in each and every trial. I do not understand the exhibit photos either and both sides do not want them released. One big reason is they could be taken out of context. Not really if one has the transcript, I would imagine they were introduced with each subject they matched.

The prosecution probably did not even need to introduce them at preliminary so just hold them.

No expert but it is like nothing I have ever seen.

All that being said, I would not want an appeal but it still is odd to me.

I wonder what exactly is in them that they worry they would be taken out of context. That is the real food for thought.... I mean we know about a few like Walmart, the bank, KB's house... Hmmm. The same with his recording, one has to wonder...

 

[?mysterian?]

Good question. Not sure why they had to go back.

Wanted to add that something that is easily overlooked is didn't PF indicate he used some type of tractor or something to put the tote up on the hay bales and remove it from there? So doesnt that mean PF had access to a tractor of some kind at Nash Ranch? Tractors usually can dig really deep holes in a flash.

Just another thing to consider as KK conveniently says she never took a peek into the tote and claims she thinks KB was in there when they burned it back at PFs ranch.

There was something mentioned about hay forks being adjusted on a tractor at Nash Ranch IIRC. And the tractor being used to somehow lift the tote up to the highest level of the hay bales, IIRC. I don't remember if the forks were on the front or to the rear of the tractor, though. Was any of that information about the Nash Ranch tractor disputed or confirmed?

Tractors can dig deep holes quickly if they have the right attachment(s).

 

[ilovechili]

I don't think they have any reason, as far as the press, to update. They were there and they did the reports even though some were misleading and or correct. Some of them corrected later.

It is rarely done that I have ever seen in any trials that I have followed.

Moo.

They would have to do the payment for transcription, that would take a couple of months, and then perhaps they would try to share it with other news organizations. By then, it is old news.

I don't think they have a reason to pay that information right now. We saw today there were only a few reporters.

ETA transcriptions of proceedings are not part of public information in my opinion. In other words, it is not free like all the other things that we see. Someone has to pay for it. In my opinion.

No argument there, it is paid for without a doubt. That is because of court reporters and transcription. It is however, publicly accessible, at least in states I am aware of. The other information is not free either most places, you pay for so much per page.

Maybe MSM has no reason but I mean even beyond that, I am surprised no one has. For instance, the first ones that generally request it are both sides attorneys for their records and to review.

I could be wrong and like I said, maybe states differ as well... Most preliminary hearings are short and contain little info and so there is no reason generally to get the transcript... Like in the JC case, there basically was no hearing. In others, they are minutes long up to tops of an hour maybe.

From what I have seen.

Just wish it was out there I guess.... sigh...

 

[Hatch]

Marking

 

[PommyMommy]

No argument there, it is paid for without a doubt. That is because of court reporters and transcription. It is however, publicly accessible, at least in states I am aware of. The other information is not free either most places, you pay for so much per page.

Maybe MSM has no reason but I mean even beyond that, I am surprised no one has. For instance, the first ones that generally request it are both sides attorneys for their records and to review.

I could be wrong and like I said, maybe states differ as well... Most preliminary hearings are short and contain little info and so there is no reason generally to get the transcript... Like in the JC case, there basically was no hearing. In others, they are minutes long up to tops of an hour maybe.

From what I have seen.

Just wish it was out there I guess.... sigh...

The link to order a transcript is in the post below. FWIW, one hour of testimony = approx 50 pages of transcript.

I'm pretty sure we determined that it's not standard procedure for the transcript to appear on the docket. IIRC, it is/will be available for a fee of $3 per page, $3.75 if expedited (10 days).

If news media ordered the transcript immediately and paid the expedited fee, that 10 days is up today. Otherwise, it would be received within 11 days and up to 30 days, or as agreed upon by the requesting party and transcriber ($3 rate).

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/PDF/JDF 4 - Transcript Request Form.pdf
MOO

 

[ilovechili]

Link to order transcript in post below. FWIW, an hour of testimony = approx 50 pages of transcript.

Thanks Pommy.

I saw that a thread or so ago when you posted it. I want it but not that badly lol. Happy to contribute though for sure. It kind of makes my point though, it is available and therefore I am surprised even if not shared, that someone has not obtained it, like a press member or even alternative media and shared some of what is in it...

And from what I understand, once the first person pays to have it transcribed, the price goes down for copies for others...

Maybe all are waiting for someone to pay for the first expensive copy lol.

 

[SandyQLS]

What in the world is this mystery about the consumptive testing? Not a peep from investigators as to what it is, where it was found, why it matters so much. And the only thing I can think of why the Defense expert cannot observe a certain stage of the testing process is that it occurs in a small chamber where only one person can fit? Anyone know about lab procedures?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

When I inquired to my local court about transcripts for court proceedings in a case I am interested in, I was told that if I request transcripts that someone else has already requested (such as the DA), it was considerably cheaper per page than if I were the first one to request them. Like maybe $1 per page rather than $3? Something of that magnitude.

What in the world is this mystery about the consumptive testing? Not a peep from investigators as to what it is, where it was found, why it matters so much. And the only thing I can think of why the Defense expert cannot observe a certain stage of the testing process is that it occurs in a small chamber where only one person can fit? Anyone know about lab procedures?

I've been trying to think of situations where the nature of one specific test among many the state wants to run on the mystery evidence, would reveal a trial strategy they don't yet want to reveal. Don't have any realistic ideas yet, but that's the only reason I can think of for the objection.

 

[Kapua]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge says he’d like to move the arraignment from April 8 to a Friday, because it’s easier on the court. Defense chose April 5, and it is so ordered. Frazee’s arraignment is now Friday, April 5, at 8:30 a.m. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
Judge reschedules #PatrickFrazee's arraignment for 8:30 a.m. at April 5. That's when defendant will enter plea and receive trial date. #KelseyBerreth @csgazette

Ashley Franco‏ @AshleyKKTV
Arraignment for #PatrickFrazee has been moved to Friday April 5th at 8:30 am. @KKTV11News #KelseyBerrerh

@Tippy Lynn, @Niner, please see new date of arraignment.

Thanks, PommyMommy, for the great job of posting all of the tweets! You rock!

So... should we assume that the defendant will enter a plea of not guilty? Because if he pleads guilty, he doesn't get a trial by jury, only a sentence by the judge.

 

[ilovechili]

When I inquired to my local court about transcripts for court proceedings in a case I am interested in, I was told that if I request transcripts that someone else has already requested (such as the DA), it was considerably cheaper per page than if I were the first one to request them. Like maybe $1 per page rather than $3? Something of that magnitude.

I've been trying to think of situations where the nature of one specific test among many the state wants to run on the mystery evidence, would reveal a trial strategy they don't yet want to reveal. Don't have any realistic ideas yet, but that's the only reason I can think of for the objection.

With regard to the court transcript, that is the way it works where I have obtained them. If they have never been transcribed, it both takes longer and costs more.

Just a response to the consumptive testing too, it is interesting the prosecution recently said a few weeks back that that evidence if not as critical as once thought. Is this a strategy or was it? I prefer to think they have something with a good chance of coming back positive though...

 

[Snowsnake]

Is it possible that PF traded services or worked for other cattle ranchers over the Thanksgiving weekend since he was staying in the area? I had thought maybe he would visit his own cattle even twice daily in Nov after they've been brought in - but you have verified PF's were already moved off to Westcliffe. Maybe the cattle owned by others were at Nash Ranch, needed feeding, check pregnant ones, owners out of town for holiday? Gives cat and dog sitting a new perspective, cattle sitting.

It is my opinion that PF had cattle on the Nash Ranch and a Ranch in Westcliffe. The Nash Ranch was a large operation at one time covering two Counties and some 40,000 acres. Portions of the ranch have been subdivided but other remote portions still have grazing and facilities to handle cattle and barns for hay storage. The Westcliffe pasture may not have been as well equipped but remember PF leased what he could get. PF took KB with him on the 21st to feed at both places. This would have been after she worked in Pueblo all day and then drove back to WP. She more than likely got up around 4AM to get ready for work, drop the baby off for the prearranged day care and then drive one and half hours to work. Reverse that time driving home to WP and then being asked to help PF feed that night so they could enjoy TG together. PF keeps KB out and up until 4AM on the 22nd. In other words he makes sure she doesn’t get sleep for 24 hours plus take care of the baby.
The Nash Ranch lies below Cripple Creek and has many dead zones for cell service. Westcliffe is located south of the Arkansas River and is a hour and half hour drive through the mountains from the Nash Ranch. Westcliffe also has many dead zones for cell.
PF had full access to the barn and Tractor at the Nash Ranch. My guess is it was his hay in the barn. He needed no help getting the tote to the top of the hay so I can see no reason he needed KK to help him get the tote out and to the front yard of mom’s for burning. I see no reason for KK to set around and watch the fire when she has 800 miles to drive and she hasn’t sleept in over a day. Mom even joins in watching the fire. In fact it is almost a little rutualistic the way it is handled. I can’t help but wonder if they threw KB’s Bible splattered with her blood on the fire.

It is just so unusual to let so many people know about your plans for a murder and nobody really thinks enough about it to warn anyone.

 

[Seattle1]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge says he’d like to move the arraignment from April 8 to a Friday, because it’s easier on the court. Defense chose April 5, and it is so ordered. Frazee’s arraignment is now Friday, April 5, at 8:30 a.m. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

7:54 AM - 4 Mar 2019 pst

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There was something mentioned about hay forks being adjusted on a tractor at Nash Ranch IIRC. And the tractor being used to somehow lift the tote up to the highest level of the hay bales, IIRC. I don't remember if the forks were on the front or to the rear of the tractor, though. Was any of that information about the Nash Ranch tractor disputed or confirmed?

Tractors can dig deep holes quickly if they have the right attachment(s).

Time ago I did understand, PF used a ladder to climb up with the tote (and wondered about his strength/power) and he used the tractor, to bring the tote down from above. - What is the ladder-thingi? When did he use it?