CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[katie565]

Taking children from their homes under nothing more than mere suspicion, would be a scary road to go down.

I am a CASA - court appointed special advocate. My title has different names, eg guardian ad litem and different legal roles in each state. We don’t take children from their parents and even when there is abuse, we work towards reunification. I can’t begin to tell you how difficult it is to take a child from a parent even with cause. Even with a court challenge, it would be hard to take that child away from
him

 

[PrairieWind]

It's amazing the lengths some people will go to make others - missing or not - look bad.
(Also, off topic but the dog in your picture is absolutely adorable.)

Its also a lesson about how completely innocent posts someone makes to their Pinterest or Instagram or FB can be taken out of context by a third party, (intentionally or inadvertently) and used to make you look like a total piece of crap.

 

[gitana1]

I tried to take a break after the Watts case because it was truly draining, but now I'm hooked on this and it has taken me days to catch up; it's moving fast.

I just want to say that I'm quite stunned at the insinuations that the police haven't done everything in their power and have sort of just sat on any info they've had thus far. What is the basis for this? Because they didn't have probable cause to search the property until now? That's not THEIR choice. They have to have enough to get a judge to sign off on it. It's a high threshold and a 4th Amendment violation that will result in the inadmissibility of potentially imperative evidence needed for a conviction. Why would they risk that??

The FBI and CBI were called in to this tiny town to help. It seems that the local police know they need the outside help and haven't closed ranks or tried to keep it to themselves as we sometimes see. They clearly want to utilize any and every resource available to them to try and get to the bottom of this.

Please, if there are questions about the criminal/legal aspects of this case, ask! I'm an open book. I will do my best to help, even though these threads are moving fast.

I have every ounce of faith in law enforcement here.

The defense attorney on the other hand......

Thank you!!!

 

[Seattle1]

It will be a brand new day when people aren’t so willing to find a f’ing word to blame a woman for being disappeared

This ^^^ 5 stars!!

 

[Jennifer17]

Its also a lesson about how completely innocent posts someone makes to their Pinterest or Instagram or FB can be taken out of context by a third party, intentionally or inadvertently) and used to make you look like a total piece of crap.

My google searches would definitely be incriminating if someone close to me disappeared.

 

[gitana1]

That is exactly the impression I got of him from the encounter with reporter at his property gate. One cold fish. I am sure that his mother adores the grandchild.

Can you link that?

 

[BRRI]

Kesley's mom (CB) has stated on the official fb page that KB had plans to go to dinner with PF (I don't know where to find it but I'm sure PommyMommy has quoted it several times). CB was not as direct in her media interviews, however. I think we might be looking at the reason for the baby being picked up in the afternoon all wrong. I wonder if the plan was to go to dinner with PF-- but without the baby? CB has never mentioned they were going to take baby K with them as far as I have seen. PF could have picked up the baby in the afternoon in order to take her home for his mom to watch. That would also give KB time to change clothes and do her hair and make-up. Maybe the plan was a romantic evening, just the two of them? With KB's work schedule, they might not get to do that very often. Maybe when CB said "There was the possibility of going out to dinner" she meant-- going out to dinner was possible for them on this particular evening. Or maybe she was hinting at something more-- Could KB have been expecting PF to finally set a date for their wedding? Could she have been expecting big news or an important development that evening? Or maybe the plan was PF was going to surprise KB with where they were going--perhaps that would be why CB might not know specifics of the restaurant or the exact plans KB had with PF. IDK, but I'm trying to piece together what we know in a way that makes sense. MOO.

I think the opposite is more likely-that they broke up and maybe were going to discuss custody. They would “get through” thanksgiving because plans had been made already.

 

[BRRI]

It is more than a 12 hour drive to Gooding, ID from the Woodland Park/Florissant area. That is just driving not counting any stops for gas, eating, or bathroom purposes. The ping in Gooding was at 5:13pm so the only way it would be possible for the texts to be sent from Colorado and then have that phone ping in Gooding is if the texts were sent around 5:00am or thereabouts. I am reasonably confident that didn't happen (at least not from the same phone).

I really would still like to have a tech expert chime in about pings, VPNs, text spoofing, and remotely accessing a phone (turning it on from another location)....

 

[Charlot123]

My question would be, how close were KB’s mom and her fiancé? Did they often/ever see each other, did they talk on the phone, and how often?

On one side, there is a religious family, on the other, an unwed couple, living separately but raising a child together. Could it create a certain tension between the sides? Lack of proximity, unless the couple gets married?

I saw several posts criticizing PF for not getting in touch with KB’s mom. Being a mother, I immediately rolled several different scenarios in my head.
One of them was, PF and KB’s mother could be not on close terms, simply because they didn’t know each other too well.

P.S. an adult kid and her SO living in another state makes a huge difference.

 

[Mom24]

Did Kelsey's mother call PF on the 25th? I keep looking for some proof of that, and I've read it here, but do we have a link from a MSM article that states that?

 

[BuySellTrade]

There's no reason to remove them.

Her mother didn't wait to report her missing, she didn't know she was missing. Why didn't Kelsey's fiance' report her missing? Clearly, he knew.

Why do you say it sounds like this has happened before? Every family member who has spoken about her said it's completely out of character for her. Her mother said she's never gone away without sharing her plan.

MOO

Recall that PF received a text message from KB on 11/25 that explained her absence, the same day she texted her work that she would be gone and did not text her Mom or anyone else (and her phone pinged in Idaho). See Bold. Am being more than a tad sarcastic.

Perhaps if a cover-up, the cover-up is too complicated. May take time to figure out. One has to wonder if PK is the culprit, has he been helped by anyone in his family?

 

[BRRI]

Well, I don't specialize in criminal law, but I do a fair amount. If such a client came to me and retained my services, my first instructions would be to not talk to LE (or anybody) about the case until we can get together to fully discuss things. Then we would have a long discussion about the case to decide where we want to go. But what happens from there would vary from case to case based upon a lot of factors. If the client expresses a desire to really help the investigation and it seems he has relevant info, we would schedule a meeting with law enforcement. But that interview will be on my terms. If the client is scared, threatened, emotionally weak or otherwise overly nervous or unstable, there will be no interview. I would never consent to a client agreeing to a polygraph exam, unless its one that I have arranged for defense purposes only.

So basically everything his attorney is doing, and what we are seeing, would be pretty normal and standard? Do you typically think that someone innocent would be following the same patterns to protect themselves? Assuming that the spouse or significant other is usually prime suspect, is this behavior unusual?

 

[MassGuy]

I really would still like to have a tech expert chime in about pings, VPNs, text spoofing, and remotely accessing a phone (turning it on from another location)....

I truly don’t believe that any fancy techniques were employed to throw off law enforcement here.

We just don’t see murderers or kidnappers doing things like that, not with any regularity.

When all is said and done, I think the text messages were sent via standard means. Somebody had her phone and physically sent those texts.

That person was also in Idaho, for whatever reason.

This part won’t be complicated.

 

[Snow Flower]

Either her mother likes to put a good spin on everything or she doesn’t know her daughter as well as she thinks she does.
I am very close to my daughter. Two weeks before she and her partner broke up they were here on vacation. Looked to be happy and in love to me. Two weeks later my daughter calls and tells me it’s over. They had been together for 5 years. She then proceeded to tell me how abusive, emotionally, her ex was. For five years all I heard about was how happy they were, blah, blah blah. My point is that I think KB might have been putting a good spin on the whole thing when she spoke with her mom. Was PF abusive? Is that why they were living apart, I mean even if she is a Christian they had already slept together because they have a child. This whole thing is as full of holes as Swiss Cheese. How old is PF? Living with his mom yet having a child and “fiancé? That’s a recipe for trouble in any relationship.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

One thing that bothers me the most, if PF was involved how is the stone cold silence a good approach to come across as innocent? (I’ve watched a ton of true crime stories for over 25 years and don’t recall one like this ) if he was involved , as many have mentioned, he had a HUGE head start to cover it up. One would think he’d have his story ready .

Also we don’t know if the very first officer who spoke to PF immediately accused him in a very abrasive manner and caused PF to shut down.

There is a reason PF isn’t talking voluntarily (though I know lots of people who would never speak to media about anything, good or bad ) and it’s possible he feels he HAS told police everything he knows. jMO

My niece has an extremely poor short term and long term memory. If she was in PF’s shoes I’d lawyer her up myself. She would be horrible at stating what she did hour by hour 3 weeks ago. She’d seem like she was hiding something or lying even if 100% innocent. And she is a college grad with a successful career which make it harder for LE to believe she really doesn’t remember. PF might be similar. MOO

There is also a reason KBs mom isn’t being allowed to see baby K. We have no clue what she said to him on 12/2 when she found out he hadn’t heard from KB since 11/25, it could have been VERY nasty. Even people here are like “KB’s the mother of his child and even if PF barely knows her , it’s his duty to know her whereabouts and report her missing” If they just recently broke up he might have just thought she was avoiding him. And him having their daughter the majority of the time was normal for them evidently. JMO

We also have zero clue how often KB’s mom has ever seen baby K . Maybe it’s hardly at all and PF is thinking ‘now you want to see her?’ My child has an absent grandparent who , if in this situation, would be all over media saying we are close (we aren't) and bemoaning not being allowed to see her. He hasn’t seen her in almost 3 years and we have offered. He lives 3 hours away. My BF’s mom has not met her newsest grandson and he’s 10 months, she only lives in the next state is retired and in great health. My child’s other grandpa didn’t meet her for 16 months....again only a 4 hour drive away.... and ALL of these grandparents claim they are extremely close to their kids and love their grandkids more than anything, especially on FB. And yes I’m projecting but not all families behave the same as a ‘normal’ family , even if they claim to be close.

All that said I very well may regret trying to figure out where PF may be coming from with his behavior, and thinking that there must be WAY more to this story than we know. MOO

I do know if my ex, we have a kid, went missing I would never speak to the press. Everyone says I have a blunt *itchy tone, especially when stressed. WS and everyone else would have me in the gallows within hours , even if my albi was I was on live TV the entire time he’s been missing (like being a Big Brother contestant for example)

 

[moonlessnight]

not when you look at statistics and profiles of these cases. it's textbook. when crimes against women and children are considered to be worse than the inconvenience caused to the men who commit them by punishing them, and when protecting children is more important than a man's entitlements, this day will come.

Taking children from their homes under nothing more than mere suspicion, would be a scary road to go down.

 

[moonlessnight]

in this day and age this is true. one day it will not be this way.

I am a CASA - court appointed special advocate. My title has different names, eg guardian ad litem and different legal roles in each state. We don’t take children from their parents and even when there is abuse, we work towards reunification. I can’t begin to tell you how difficult it is to take a child from a parent even with cause. Even with a court challenge, it would be hard to take that child away from
him

 

[scdiv]

Alright, I think I’m all caught up on the 5 threads. I have a question and maybe I just missed it.. does the Safeway not have parking lot cameras? I’m curious if someone has seen or heard of that footage. I go weeks without speaking to my mother, I love her.. but if she didn’t hear from me it wouldn’t raise eyebrows. If my husband can’t reach me for hours he’d be worried and call people. I post all sorts of things on sm. Has anyone thought maybe she was posting things but not about herself? I never post, so sorry for the long ramble!

I just don't think even the quote itself was about addiction. The hashtag words are why it is being referenced now, but those could have been put on by a person hundreds of pins ago. And if you pin any type of motivation/inspiration/religious whatever kind of quotes - other similar pins/quotes are "suggested" for you as well. It's not like she would have to be searching those particular hashtag topics to come across those pins. They are on all kinds of boards of people pinning quotes.

 

[Mom24]

One thing that bothers me the most, if PF was involved how is the stone cold silence a good approach to come across as innocent? (I’ve watched a ton of true crime stories for over 25 years and don’t recall one like this ) if he was involved , as many have mentioned, he had a HUGE head start to cover it up. One would think he’d have his story ready .

Also we don’t know if the very first officer who spoke to PF immediately accused him in a very abrasive manner and caused PF to shut down.

There is a reason PF isn’t talking voluntarily (though I know lots of people who would never speak to media about anything, good or bad ) and it’s possible he feels he HAS told police everything he knows. jMO

My niece has an extremely poor short term and long term memory. If she was in PF’s shoes I’d lawyer her up myself. She would be horrible at stating what she did hour by hour 3 weeks ago. She’d seem like she was hiding something or lying even if 100% innocent. And she is a college grad with a successful career which make it harder for LE to believe she really doesn’t remember. PF might be similar. MOO

There is also a reason KBs mom isn’t being allowed to see baby K. We have no clue what she said to him on 12/2 when she found out he hadn’t heard from KB since 11/25, it could have been VERY nasty. Even people here are like “KB’s the mother of his child and even if PF barely knows her , it’s his duty to know her whereabouts and report her missing” If they just recently broke up he might have just thought she was avoiding him. And him having their daughter the majority of the time was normal for them evidently. JMO

We also have zero clue how often KB’s mom has ever seen baby K . Maybe it’s hardly at all and PF is thinking ‘now you want to see her?’ My child has an absent grandparent who , if in this situation, would be all over media saying we are close (we aren't) and bemoaning not being allowed to see her. He hasn’t seen her in almost 3 years and we have offered. He lives 3 hours away. My BF’s mom has not met her newsest grandson and he’s 10 months, she only lives in the next state is retired and in great health. My child’s other grandpa didn’t meet her for 16 months....again only a 4 hour drive away.... and ALL of these grandparents claim they are extremely close to their kids and love their grandkids more than anything, especially on FB. And yes I’m projecting but not all families behave the same as a ‘normal’ family , even if they claim to be close.

All that said I very well may regret trying to figure out where PF may be coming from with his behavior, and thinking that there must be WAY more to this story than we know. MOO

I do know if my ex, we have a kid, went missing I would never speak to the press. Everyone says I have a blunt *itchy tone, especially when stressed. WS and everyone else would have me in the gallows within hours , even if my albi was I was on live TV the entire time he’s been missing (like being a Big Brother contestant for example)

But the two points are, why didn't he report her missing, and now knowing that she is missing, isn't at least putting a missing poster on his social media account?

 

[PrairieWind]

So basically everything his attorney is doing, and what we are seeing, would be pretty normal and standard? Do you typically think that someone innocent would be following the same patterns to protect themselves? Assuming that the spouse or significant other is usually prime suspect, is this behavior unusual?

Yes to your first question. I don't understand (from a lawyer point of view) why some posters here are so upset with the attorney. He has done nothing that improper here. I understand that everyone hates lawyers, except their own lawyer. But I assure you, that your personal family lawyer that you've known and loved for years would be giving the exact same advice to a client.

To the second part, is it normal? Its certainly not unusual, especially in this day and age. We increasingly see reports of criminals later exonerated because of false confessions, etc, and we how aggressive and selective in reporting that media can be. And, based upon passed experiences perhaps, many people have an extreme distrust of law enforcement. We have seen a lot of posts on these threads about PF's family in LE and the insinuation that they have helped him cover it up. But that cuts the other way too. What if there are officers on the local law enforcement that PF has had problems with in the past and he is worried they will try to railroad him.