CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[Kapua]

But how plausible is it to visit someone 700 miles away without taking your own vehicle. If there were any indication that she rented a car or got someone to take her or left on a bus, seems like LE would have uncovered that and released that information.

How plausible is it to visit someone more than 800 miles away by car (13 hours) without your own vehicle, suitcase, toothbrush, makeup, etc. and without bringing those delicious cinnamon rolls you just baked?

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

Guys, if you google ANY criminal defense attorney’s website on communicating with police, they advise against it.

Many state that police are not your friends and their MO is to make an arrest.

The fact that PF isn’t talking is not suspicious. What’s suspicious to me is that he did not report her missing.

Here is an example given by a criminal defense attorney’s website regarding cooperating with police:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gr...ate-with-the-police-won-t-they-just-clea.html

“I'm innocent. If I cooperate with the police won't they just clear me?
It's possible, but not something you should count on especially not without an attorney present. In fact, if you are being investigated by the police, unless you have a lawyer by your side, answering police questions is more likely to end up with you being charged with a crime than clearing your name.”

 

[PommyMommy]

Being a mate, or even an ex-mate puts one under suspicion immediately in a missing person case. Depending on how public the case goes one can be very scrutinized by public opinion. It can ruin people's lives. SM has attacked perfectly innocent people when they have spoken up, taring apart their every word. I do think PF needed and needs an atty instead of trying to manage this himself. I think he could well need an attorney for other reasons too, but time will tell. Remember too, he has LE in his family and I believe they would advise such.

Well said kk, and I completely agree that he needs an attorney. That he has hired one is not the only reason (or even the main one) that many of us find his behavior suspicious. The reasons have been posted over and over by numerous members but we seem to dwell on this one. Weird.
MOO

 

[whoizzit]

I never had kids, but I still suffered a very-unexpected breakdown right at K's age.
I'm very open about it. I was working and doing very well in almost every aspect of my life. Still don't know what caused it.
I definitely suspect the BF but there is always the long-shot of "taking a break". Even my immediate family members never saw it coming.
Headed to work, then it just "broke".
So we can't say for sure, and in this entire scenario, it would be so much better if that were the case than a death.
I'm sure the VI can (or choose not to and I completely respect that) speak to this.
No disrespect at all. Mental issues carry no stigma with me.
Chi

OT: This reminds me so very much of one of my favorite lines from "Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood." Vivi explains her break by saying "I dropped my basket." To me, it says everything in 4 simple words. I'm so glad you're ok, Chi!

 

[Elley Mae]

The police chief spoke to the public just hours after a search warrant was executed on the property belonging to Kelsey's fiance Patrick Frazee. Police said they could spend up to three days searching the property. Information on why the search warrant was obtained is sealed off from the public. 11 News was just outside the property when they saw Frazee's vehicle towed away.

"Why did it take so long to search the home? There are a number of other things that we have done up to this point that have led to us to be able to search the residence at this point," Chief De Young added.

Authorities believe missing Woodland Park mom could still be alive

 

[chihuahua]

He didn't report her missing.
Her mom did on December 2nd after she was last sighted at the Safeway. It's near her home on East Lake Ave.
What happened in between???
Really wondering,
Chi

 

[KSinMT]

I do wonder where her purse is too.

If I had to take a wild guess I would say wherever her phone is, the purse is too.. possibly somewhere between Colorado and Idaho.

 

[Falcon500]

Question: Can a search warrant include a drone to fly over private property and may that have been done prior to LE breaking into the gate? Thanks!

Great question. I believe that some courts have already ruled in cases where helicopters were in the air and spotted nefarious behavior on property and then used that as the probable cause for a search warrant.

I don’t believe that a drone case has ever reached the Supreme Court. The major question for the justices to decide is who owns the sky, how far aloft does ownership go, and whether law enforcement can go on fishing expeditions with a drone.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I'm going to muse a bit here. As a flight instructor for folks who will become "tomorrow's warfighters" she would have come into contact with numerous young men and women in the course of her duties. I sure hope there's been a thorough screening of those contacts.

I don't know a LOT about pilots, but I do know that many of the prefer to fly rather than drive when taking a trip of several hundred miles. What are the chances she hooked up with someone (coworker, friend, Craigslist Rideshare) flying to the Pacific NW and took the opportunity to split fuel cost, flying time, etc. Maybe Idaho was a refueling stop.

Hopefully, law enforcement has checked out all non-commercial flights that stopped in Gooding or vicinity between November 22nd and November 25th and all non-commercial flights that flew over or very near to where the ping was on November 25 at or around 5:13pm.

 

[whoizzit]

Thank you for saving me the time to find that, much appreciated!
MOO

You're so welcome, but I was actually posting that at the same time you were! Serendipitous, I guess. (I recalled that her brother had stated that the rolls had been cooked for/partially eaten as breakfast, so had gone on a hunt for your post.)

 

[playthe361]

I am new to this site but, I have been following this sad case and this particular thread since day one. I always stay up to date with current events and as I read more and more about this whole thing the less I understand. I have been able to read almost every post, every question, every comment, etc. here. I may have missed a few here and there which means the questions I have may have been asked. If so, I apologize. Something the police chief responded with during the press conference yesterday kind of bugs me. When asked if it was "wise" to leave the baby with PF he answered with, "'I have no information at this time that I need to take that child away at this point." I don't understand how they had enough information to gain and execute a search warrant but, none of the info that made that possible raised concern for the welfare of the baby? That doesn't sit well with me. Makes me wonder about how strong their evidence or reasoning was/is.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I am new to this site but, I have been following this sad case and this particular thread since day one. I always stay up to date with current events and as I read more and more about this whole thing the less I understand. I have been able to read almost every post, every question, every comment, etc. here. I may have missed a few here and there which means the questions I have may have been asked. If so, I apologize. Something the police chief responded with during the press conference yesterday kind of bugs me. When asked if it was "wise" to leave the baby with PF he answered with, "'I have no information at this time that I need to take that child away at this point." I don't understand how they had enough information to gain and execute a search warrant but, none of the info that made that possible raised concern for the welfare of the baby? That doesn't sit well with me. Makes me wonder about how strong their evidence or reasoning was/is.

They can suspect him however, they cannot take the baby away unless they have evidence that he is harming her.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Why is it thought that PF and KB were separated?

Hasn’t it been said PF is the fiancé?

I am suspicious of PF, of course, but we can’t let the Watts case give us a biased opinion. We need to see the facts for what they are without the lens of the Watts case, please.

I’ve seen some refer to KB as a “loner” because none of her friends have spoken out. Keep in mind that Shanann Watts was an extremely unusual case because her employment was with an MLM where she communicated multiple times a day with her team. Her team consisted of not merely colleagues but were all personal friends of hers, that she recruited into Thrive and new friends that she made from Thrive. Thus, SW had many people speaking out how it wasn’t like her to not communicate. She communicated with them nearly 24/7 for work and socially. In addition, her job required her to be visibly active on social media. Her visibility helped her case because people knew it was unusual for her not to be heard nor seen.

Lawyering up in itself is not enough to put the blame on PF because we all know they look at the significant other first. The glaring elephant in the room is that he never reported her missing. If she had the baby most of the time him having the baby for 10-11 days would have been highly irregular, what did he tell the mom he lived with? I don’t know if his mother works but I noticed he is joined at the hip with the baby. He evidently doesn’t say, “Mom will you watch the baby a minute while I do whatever.” He is not letting KB’s mom see the baby. For my money he is acting highly suspicious.

It seems pretty clear that he had the baby most of the time. It has been reported that he had the baby during the week while she was working and her work schedule was described as being a 70-mile commute each way, long hours, and sometime 6 or 7 days a week. It was described, by Kelsey's father, that sometimes she would stay at Patrick's during the week and sometimes take the baby to her place.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Thanks. I wonder if her mom was guessing this or if Kelsey has actually mentioned she made them that day. If it’s the latter, that does help more with the timeline IMO.

Thread #4, Post #179 by Pommy:

“Kelsey don’t go out in public without a shower, hair done, and makeup applied. All these items remain untouched. We know she made cinnamon rolls for breakfast on Thanksgiving, the remainder are still on the stovetop.”

Colorado mom missing since Thanksgiving

 

[chihuahua]

Hopefully, law enforcement has checked out all non-commercial flights that stopped in Gooding or vicinity between November 22nd and November 25th and all non-commercial flights that flew over or very near to where the ping was on November 25 at or around 5:13pm.

Yes being instrument rated like she was there would be a flight plan on file. Unless someone took off under the cloak of darkness.
We didn't always file a flight plan because we often used rural airports, some that didn't even have anyone there.
Certainly no air-traffic control.
jmo and I'm thinking that's a long-shot for sure in K's case.
There would be a plane missing if she flew away.
Chi

 

[Esma]

I want to know why they won’t officially call him a person of interest if they have established enough evidence to execute a search warrant. The sherrif saying he doesn’t want to take that leap to label anyone in the case at this point. That’s not meshing.

 

[NanZDrew]

It seems pretty clear that he had the baby most of the time. It has been reported that he had the baby during the week while she was working and her work schedule was described as being a 70-mile commute each way, long hours, and sometime 6 or 7 days a week. It was described, by Kelsey's father, that sometimes she would stay at Patrick's during the week and sometimes take the baby to her place.

This would be understandable. I would rather have the father watch the child than a childcare facility.

 

[NanZDrew]

Yes being instrument rated like she was there would be a flight plan on file. Unless someone took off under the cloak of darkness.
We didn't always file a flight plan because we often used rural airports, some that didn't even have anyone there.
Certainly no air-traffic control.
jmo and I'm thinking that's a long-shot for sure in K's case.
There would be a plane missing if she flew away.
Chi

Air space is not considered private property.

 

[LietKynes]

I do wonder where her purse is too.

Agreed !
Wonder if LE were looking for it , as well as other evidence during their search yesterday ?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

That’s a non-starter for me bc others, including my brothers who live nearby, would not be able to look at my house and know for sure if I had another suitcase, additional makeup, more clothes, or another toothbrush. I have all these things, including a second set of makeup and toiletries I take to the gym or when traveling.

How plausible is it to visit someone more than 800 miles away by car (13 hours) without your own vehicle, suitcase, toothbrush, makeup, etc. and without bringing those delicious cinnamon rolls you just baked?