CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[Deleted member 102539]

He overestimated her loyalty to him when her own freedom and Sonic visits were at stake.

bbm
I love it!

 

[Livelove61364]

For any of you still hanging around, do you think PF burned KB's remains or do you think he could have disposed of her elsewhere reinforcing the thoughts of "no body, no case' if that was indeed his thought.

I believe items were burned with the tote at the Franch, but I'm not 100% convinced it was KB's remains. I can't even articulate why I'm feeling uncertain about it?! Maybe PF even led KK to believe it?

I can't say definitively that KB's body has been burned. The tote being burned, sure, I'll buy that theory all day long. As for the contents of it, I'm leaning towards item's used in the murder & items used to clean up. The "lump" KK seen could have been anything! For the fire to get hot enough to burn a human body & bones, more than gasoline & motor oil would need to have been used. Much less, it's odd to me that there is so much description in KK's "story" about the clean up & other events, but not much about the "lump" in the fire, how long the fire burned, the smell of burning human flesh etc! THESE ARE RED FLAGS!

If anyone here has ever witnessed a car blow up, or a house fire where people don't make it out, the smell of burning human flesh is so dang putrid, that its a smell you cannot forget! It's far from any nightmare, and nothing you can ever forget.

As for why the dogs hit on the places where the tote was stored; simple. Any minute fragment of rotting flesh attached to what was inside the tote would give off the gases of a cadaver.

As morbid as it sounds, Lye mixed with water and some heat, over a few hours, can liquify a human body to the consistency of mineral oil. Given the locale, and nature of surrounding stores, lye should be readily available for pretty cheap. As gruesome as this is, given the fact that PF had many areas to do it in, it is a possibility I do not believe has been explored.

***SIDE NOTE*** I'm not a closet case serial killer, I promise! I realized how bad this looked after I typed it in a notepad. I do feel this is a plausible theory, although disgusting. I mean no harm.

ETA: spelling

 

[Seattle1]

I feel confident KK felt sure KB's body was in the tote.

She would have noticed that the tote was heavy as PF lifted it into the trough, much heavier than just towels and such. (She also knew he had to use the forklift to remove it from the hay bale.) bbm

She described the "lump" as they watched the fire burn away the tote.

Towels, her own coverings and the purse would have burned in a very short time while the body would have taken much longer. (I think PF fed that fire all night long.)

I believe PF wouldn't have been concerned about removing the remains of the fire if KB's body had not been there.

I also have some confidence that KB's DNA has shown up in the black melted plastic.

I recall in the documents that KK said she held the ladder for PF while he moved the tote and rest it on top of a bale.

I believe PF told KK that he used the tractor when he put the tote in the barn but not when he was with KK. It's one of the reasons why I'm unsure that KB was inside the tote when he took it to the Franch. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I still don't know, when and how PF denied CB seeing her grandchild.
Can someone inform me, please?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ick-frazee-monster-ex-girlfriend-says-n980721
Vanessa Curie:
“He's a very, very complicated individual. And he's very, very smart. And, like I said, he can read people really well. And he knew how to press people's buttons.”
-.-
Cline does not believe his friend is capable of murder. Cline says there has been a rush to judgment. “We're supposed to be in a country where you're innocent until proven guilty,” he said.

“I'm not going to speculate. I'm going to wait and see what kind of evidence is presented," he said. "If the evidence comes out, OK, and I'm going to be shocked and amazed. But if it comes out the other way, there's a lot of people that are going to have to eat a lot of crow.”
-.-
CC should thoroughly overthinking the years, PF is known to him and should prove, whether he/his friendship was used by PF for his personally advantage (jobs/fees+wages/clients/loan/etc.). IMO

 

[pcrum12]

is it just pure jealousy?

I think so. Pure jealousy. Just my take on it however.

 

[1mtroyal]

I still can't imagine PF using 5 gallons of gas and setting it on fire in the trough. That would make a tremendous explosion. If I use 1/2 cup of gas to start a fire, it is a rather scary situation.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I recall in the documents that KK said she held the ladder for PF while he moved the tote and rest it on top of a bale.

I believe PF told KK that he used the tractor when he put the tote in the barn but not when he was with KK. It's one of the reasons why I'm unsure that KB was inside the tote when he took it to the Franch. MOO

I feel the same. PF wanted to be make sure KK was fully invested in the murder, and that her hands would be almost as dirty as his. Having her believe she was moving the body would accomplish that, along with cleaning the horrific scene at the condo.

Entirely possible that PF knew as early as 11/22 that KK would balk at transporting the body back to Idaho as originally planned. So, he got rid of it himself, took the tote with clothing and the weapon to Nash Ranch, and let KK believe the body was in there. All my own speculation, of course.

What I don’t get at all... IF the body was in the tote, why not just burn it at Nash Ranch? Why risk moving the body back to the Franch at all?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I still don't know, when and how PF denied CB seeing her grandchild.
Can someone inform me, please?

Here’s one MSM source:
“Police said Friday that Berreth's parents had not been allowed to see the baby.”
Missing Colorado Mom Kelsey Berreth: 5 Fast Facts

 

[girlhasnoname]

I feel the same. PF wanted to be make sure KK was fully invested in the murder, and that her hands would be almost as dirty as his. Having her believe she was moving the body would accomplish that, along with cleaning the horrific scene at the condo.

Entirely possible that PF knew as early as 11/22 that KK would balk at transporting the body back to Idaho as originally planned. So, he got rid of it himself, took the tote with clothing and the weapon to Nash Ranch, and let KK believe the body was in there. All my own speculation, of course.

What I don’t get at all... IF the body was in the tote, why not just burn it at Nash Ranch? Why risk moving the body back to the Franch at all?

Great points here and this is why I've had that nagging little suspicion about KB's remains. PF removed KB from the townhome, drove her to Nash Ranch to drop her off. Went back to Nash Ranch with KK to retrieve the tote and transport it back to Franch to burn. It seems like a lot more unnecessary risk involved.

Then again, we are speaking of Dumb and Dumber here. I can see merits to both sides and I wonder if we will ever really know the truth. I think PF is a lot more devious than folks give him credit for.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Speaking of the smell of a burning body:
My family was camping and a pull behind trailer next to us caught fire with 2 children inside. My dad was able to pull one of the kids through a window and put her inside our car and rush her to the hospital where she later died.

I will never forget that scene and more importantly I will NEVER forget the smell. We never drove that car again and it still gives me nightmares.

If PF was burning a body within sight distance of his family home, there is no way everybody at the Franch was not aware of what it was IMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Speaking of the smell of a burning body:
My family was camping and a pull behind trailer next to us caught fire with 2 children inside. My dad was able to pull one of the kids through a window and put her inside our car and rush her to the hospital where she later died.

I will never forget that scene and more importantly I will NEVER forget the smell. We never drove that car again and it still gives me nightmares.

If PF was burning a body within sight distance of his family home, there is no way everybody at the Franch was not aware of what it was IMO.

Wow. I couldn’t bear to hit the like button, that poor family. What a horrible experience to witness. Thank you for sharing the first hand perspective of the sadly distinctive smell. I guess it actually may give credence to KK’s certainty that she was witnessing a “human bonfire” (a term another poster coined), which provides a disturbingly accurate mental picture of the scene.

 

[Julia966]

I feel the same. PF wanted to be make sure KK was fully invested in the murder, and that her hands would be almost as dirty as his. Having her believe she was moving the body would accomplish that, along with cleaning the horrific scene at the condo.

Entirely possible that PF knew as early as 11/22 that KK would balk at transporting the body back to Idaho as originally planned. So, he got rid of it himself, took the tote with clothing and the weapon to Nash Ranch, and let KK believe the body was in there. All my own speculation, of course.

What I don’t get at all... IF the body was in the tote, why not just burn it at Nash Ranch? Why risk moving the body back to the Franch at all?

I think burning a body, or anything, on someone else's property would raise all kinds of problems. I think you don't just burn things on another's property.

Interesting theory that the body was not in the tote. Under that theory, what did he do with her? Bury her somewhere?

If she was in the tote, the only thing I can think about the smell is that the oily smell of the plastic and the other things in the tote disguised the smell, at least from a distance. The assumed burn area is some distance from the house and there is a stand of trees between the area and the house. Besides, wouldn't the mother have been the only other person to possibly notice a weird smell? Maybe she couldn't discern it from that distance. Or, maybe she could.

 

[Noharg]

I'm just a Junior Sleuther here to learn from the wise.

Another Junior Sleuther here, too. I know LE has evidence that supports much of KK’s narrative, but what about parts of her story that cannot be supported by evidence? I am thinking about the sweater over KB’s head and the scented candles for example-would a jury be allowed to hear this part of the story or would the defense have a sustainable objection?
TIA
Just my own wondering and wandering mind

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think burning a body, or anything, on someone else's property would raise all kinds of problems. I think you don't just burn things on another's property.

Interesting theory that the body was not in the tote. Under that theory, what did he do with her? Bury her somewhere?

If she was in the tote, the only thing I can think about the smell is that the oily smell of the plastic and the other things in the tote disguised the smell, at least from a distance. The assumed burn area is some distance from the house and there is a stand of trees between the area and the house. Besides, wouldn't the mother have been the only other person to possibly notice a weird smell? Maybe she couldn't discern it from that distance. Or, maybe she could.

You make a good point about burning on another’s property. Then again, storing a body on another’s property isn’t problem-free.

I consider a possibility that PF dumped the body elsewhere, even into a body of water. He hinted at other locations he visited between 11/22 and 11/24, Lake George and Cracker Barrel. He could have lied about either, or both, but there seems to be a smidgeon of truth regarding his whereabouts in the information we have heard, based on the bank and Walmart photos.

And if he did take the tote and body to Nash Ranch, I’ve also considered that someone else removed the body from the tote and disposed of it, prior to his return trip with KK.

Above is just speculation by me. There are many things I want to know, but the number one for me is:

Where is Kelsey?

 

[sun16]

I do think KB’s body was in the tote (leaving her home and then also stored in the barn). I guess I just can’t decide if PF took her out of the tote and disposed of her somewhere else/somehow. And of course the dogs hit on the tote because KB had been in it at one time. But not necessarily because she was burned in the tote. Part of me thinks just a bunch of other atuff was burned together in the tote, and KB’s body was long gone somewhere else by then. Sigh.

 

[Uninformant]

I just realized if someone completely cycloned through everything in my house, they’d probably find at least 5 teeth in envelopes and baggies. When the tooth fairy swaps out teeth for $ in the middle of the night, she randomly stashes the tooth in a place she thinks the kids won’t find. And she doesn’t remember all those places. (I just remembered my kid lost a tooth while we were on vacation visiting my parents and I stashed the envelope between towels in a stack in the bathroom and never retrieved it!)
All this to say, before I realized this, I was thinking it was odd they found teeth like they did. Now I’m more aware the inventory list isn’t simply items they found sitting around, or even deliberately hidden. They probably tore the place apart and completely destroyed any storage or organization system that existed. Also not saying the teeth aren’t relevant, but it’s an interesting change in perspective. I’d also been imagining the papers and checkbooks and such as sitting on a desk, or recently filed.

 

[Julia966]

It's definitely possible KB is somewhere else. Still, PF is brutally stupid, I could see him burning a body out in the open like that. What is amazing is that at least three people are willing to cover for him.

 

[Irmese]

I am thinking of KK driving to CO to clean up and I wonder where she parked her car. Did she go to the Franch and PF dropped her off at KB's with a bag containing the cleanup suit and supplies? That doesn't seem likely. Did she park nearby and walk to KB's carrying a bag with the cleanup suit and supplies? The mop and bleach bottle found with blood traces at the Franch indicates she either left her own stuff there or PF borrowed it from Ma and returned it. Where was KK's borrowed car when she was cleaning up? Maybe she drove KB's car and that's why the bloody sock was in there? I wonder if PF had made copies of KB's keys to her townhome and maybe her car nd given them to KK earlier. How else was she expected to kill KK with a pipe except to be able to let herself in and wait in hiding to ambush KB?

 

[dalsglen]

I wonder if kk merrily sang along to the radio on her road trip to co.