CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

PF is a cattle rancher, horseman and farrier. I wouldn't think of his fingers as fat as much as thick from doing hard work JMO. Finger size is irrelevant because the floor vents either lift right out, or require a screwdriver for 2 or 4 little screws. A floor vent can be seen in KB's home here between the door mat and furniture, from zillow.com:

I don't think he even tried to get the tooth, or clean any of the crimes scene for that matter. He left all that for KK.
I believe he used the wipes to clean himself or maybe the outside of the tote after he put her in it.
I believe he also took a shower and may have washed the body before he placed her inside the container.
Looking at the picture it's easy to see why blood would have been everywhere even with just one blow to the head. Imo

 

[acutename]

[

PF is a cattle rancher, horseman and farrier. I wouldn't think of his fingers as fat as much as thick from doing hard work JMO. Finger size is irrelevant because the floor vents either lift right out, or require a screwdriver for 2 or 4 little screws. A floor vent can be seen in KB's home here between the door mat and furniture, from zillow.com:

it is another incredibly weird thing to me is that he would:
a. knock out a tooth
b. know where it went
c. tell KK to retrieve it

it is potentially easy enough to get the cover off the vent, but it is a vent- should be long and "going some where" so if you miss the item, not easy to get it out.

A supremely creepy aspect of this murder, IMO.

 

[SandyQLS]

I still can't imagine PF using 5 gallons of gas and setting it on fire in the trough. That would make a tremendous explosion. If I use 1/2 cup of gas to start a fire, it is a rather scary situation.

I have burned 5 gallons of gas, by slow drip. No way is that going to ever be hot enough in a thin steel water trough to consume a human body. IMO KK made that up because she doesn't know how dumb it is.

A ranch is going to have gas cans for various equipment, like a generator or bobcat.

In theory, KK may have run into PF at the Conoco in Florissant 11/24 at 4:30PM where she saw him with the red gas can and a black tote in the bed of his truck. She's been to his ranch at some point, when she wasn't locked out at the gate, and saw that he uses those black totes for storage. He has an area at the ranchette that he uses for burns. Point is KK may have simply incorporated what she saw into the tale she weaved, none of which can be proven.

PF was never seen leaving KB's with a black tote. PF was seen several times on camera with "white box" "white object" "crate" that morphs somehow into black tote because... eyes are lying and KK's tale of the black tote must somehow be achieved?

 

[ajaylee]

as per KK, if you believe her, she picked up KB's keys at the locked gate to the ranch. she parked at the Community Center and walked with her clean up stuff to KB's. when leaving, she put her garbage at the curb, and then got her car, drove around and picked up the bags. (thus a cadaver dog hit there). some of us asked if she took all the bags. also seems then that a cadaver dog would have hit on the borrowed VW (Jetta/Passat- various in the affidavit) if it had been checked. no one understands the sock in KB's Toyota corolla. maybe not related to the crime. there is also a mention, I think, of KK driving PF back to pick up his truck... guess they drove to Nash together in the VW and then back (?). Fuzzy about that because it seemed unclear when the truck was dropped off initially.

BBM

Yet another one of those pesky little details that don't make sense (yet). I had the impression that PF's truck was at KBs. I can understand them deciding to only take one car to Nash Ranch, but KK's car already had half a dozen trash bags - and was a borrowed car. However, it was also a car not known in the area, and the contents would be better concealed than in the bed of PF's truck.

 

[ajaylee]

I don't think he even tried to get the tooth, or clean any of the crimes scene for that matter. He left all that for KK.
I believe he used the wipes to clean himself or maybe the outside of the tote after he put her in it.
I believe he also took a shower and may have washed the body before he placed her inside the container.
Looking at the picture it's easy to see why blood would have been everywhere even with just one blow to the head. Imo

This is another confusing part of the timeline (for me, anyway). It's bad enough that Baby K was likely in the condo while her mother was being murdered and her dad was putting her mother's remains into a tote and cleaning himself up before heading off to Thanksgiving dinner.

That doesn't make sense. PF wouldn't have loaded the tote into the open bed of his pickup, put Baby K in her carrier, and driven to the ranchette. I'm missing something here.

 

[NWLady]

KK acquired an anonymous burner phone (the number previously assigned to completely cleared SR) before KB vanished. KK had that phone before, during and after KB vanished, then she destroyed it. These are physical acts indicative of KK's premeditation.

In AA item#50, CL provided LE with KK's gmail account info. LE obtained a SW and found that location data was available for most of November and December 2018, except "the dates surrounding the murder of Berreth contained no location history." The word "surrounding" implies before, during and after KB vanished. This is also evidence of physical actions taken by KK indicating premeditation.

From the Prelim, Thread#39, page 79:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Around 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 22, Frazee texted Kenney asking for her to call him. Frazee eventually called, saying, “You need to get out here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.” Kenney interpreted that as Kelsey Berreth was dead. @KOAA

First off, KK is repeating alleged spoken words which cannot be proven. This is not a text. Secondly, this is presented as a surprise to KK, as though she never expected to hear such a thing, a sudden demand. But that flies in the face of her direct actions before, during and after KB vanished showing KK had premeditation.

I cannot find a single action taken by PF indicating premeditation. All I find is KK's accusations, and there is no evidence supporting her words. JMO

Good post and BBM (the part mentioning "dates surrounding the murder of ....")- This is just 1 of the reasons why I am not convinced that KK was not in Colorado when KB was murdered. Unless there is solid proof provided by LE/investigators that KK was not in Colorado, I will always have a hard time believing it and would just guess that the defense is going to tear it apart as well. And I am not saying I don't believe PF is guilty because I do believe that, but rather I am just saying I don't see any proof yet that KK was not in Colorado when it took place (although there is lots of things none of us know yet). After all, we know KK lied to LE/investigators the first time she was questioned, then decided to spill the beans in an attempt to save her own hide. And, if she was in Colorado when KB was murdered, is KK going to admit that?! I doubt it. And since she has legal representation, wouldn't her attorney/legal counsel check/verify per discovery, etc whether there is proof that KK was or was not in Colorado during the time the murder took place? My guess would by yes, because I would think there's a possibility that in PF's defense, his legal counsel/attorneys would want it proven also that KK was not in Colorado at the time of the murder. And yes, I do believe KK's testimony plays a huge role in conviction of PF, otherwise why offer her a plea deal for her testimony? (and a sweet plea deal at that) We know, per her own admission, that she was involved before AND after, but somehow just happened to not be present and/or in Colorado during the time KB was murdered...............And as I have said before, I could very well be proven wrong once this goes to trial as obviously there is a lot that none of us yet know, and I will gladly admit I was wrong about her not being in Colorado then, but until that time, I will still have doubt... This is all JMO, guesses, theory, etc.

 

[SandyQLS]

Speaking of the smell of a burning body:
My family was camping and a pull behind trailer next to us caught fire with 2 children inside. My dad was able to pull one of the kids through a window and put her inside our car and rush her to the hospital where she later died.

I will never forget that scene and more importantly I will NEVER forget the smell. We never drove that car again and it still gives me nightmares.

If PF was burning a body within sight distance of his family home, there is no way everybody at the Franch was not aware of what it was IMO.

Sorry about your poor experience, but you make such a valid point.

PF phone pings south of Florissant tower 11/24 6:19PM. By the time PF and KK (whose phone is not pinging?), arrive to the F ranchette and get this fire going, it is no earlier than 7:00PM.

We are to believe that after this 3-4 burn per KK, a fire that wasn't long enough or hot enough to eliminate a body, smelling of bloody cleanup, 2-day old corpse, now a plastics-gas-oil-cadaver fire... they ran out for pizza at the only place pizza is available at 10-11PM in Florissant.

Then adding pizza smell to all of the above, no later than 11:00PM KK jumps in MG's car with KB's gun that still smells of dead body after being in the tote for two days, and drives nonstop to get to Cisco, Utah by 4:11AM so KB's phone can ping.

KK has been constantly awake doing something, often something smelly, without a shower, for 34 hours at this point in her story (6:30PM 11/23 to 4:11AM 11/25), and she has a long way to drive to make the pings in SLC and Idaho on time.

KK is not telling the truth. That's my opinion. MOO IMO JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

as per KK, if you believe her, she picked up KB's keys at the locked gate to the ranch. she parked at the Community Center and walked with her clean up stuff to KB's. when leaving, she put her garbage at the curb, and then got her car, drove around and picked up the bags. (thus a cadaver dog hit there). some of us asked if she took all the bags. also seems then that a cadaver dog would have hit on the borrowed VW (Jetta/Passat- various in the affidavit) if it had been checked. no one understands the sock in KB's Toyota corolla. maybe not related to the crime. there is also a mention, I think, of KK driving PF back to pick up his truck... guess they drove to Nash together in the VW and then back (?). Fuzzy about that because it seemed unclear when the truck was dropped off initially.

bbm
3:27 p.m.

Slater says a cadaver dog used during a search of the home showed interest in a pair of Kelsey Berreth’s underwear, and also alerted near her Toyota. The car was searched. Investigators used a chemical process to test for any contents for blood, a sock reacted positively.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[BOSCOE]

I need proof KK was not in Colorado at time of murder because at this point I believe she was. To have not committed or been there at the time of the murder she supposedly knows too much.

People are to believe she made all these trips with intent of committing murder and she wasn't present all of a sudden.

I've said it before this was a BAD deal. Jurors aren't always so willing to buy testimony. We have seen it over and over and been surprised with verdicts. I just want justice for Kelsey. Plain and simple.

 

[BOSCOE]

DBM - duplicate

 

[SandyQLS]

Another Junior Sleuther here, too. I know LE has evidence that supports much of KK’s narrative, but what about parts of her story that cannot be supported by evidence? I am thinking about the sweater over KB’s head and the scented candles for example-would a jury be allowed to hear this part of the story or would the defense have a sustainable objection?
TIA
Just my own wondering and wandering mind

You're not a junior anything!
Do you know who sells scented candles? Gee, I wonder about that. KB's friends? It doesn't seem that PF bought any at Walmart, and the SW executions do not report any. Hmmm, I am stumped. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I need proof KK was not in Colorado at time of murder because at this point I believe she was. To have not committed or been there at the time of the murder she supposedly knows too much.

People are to believe she made all these trips with intent of committing murder and she wasn't present all of a sudden.

I've said it before this was a BAD deal. Jurors aren't always so willing to buy testimony. We have seen it over and over and been surprised with verdicts. I just want justice for Kelsey. Plain and simple.

She knows a lot, likely because PF trusted her.

She was up to her eyeballs in this, and he would have zero reason to hold anything back from her.

The DA would not have made this deal, unless they could verify her alibi on the day of the murder.

When PF left Kelsey’s house with her phone (and likely her body), his movements were tracked via his and KB’s cell phones.

He made two phone calls, one of them was to KK.

So law enforcement would know where her phone was, when she conversed with PF on the phone.

All signs point to them have verifying that the location was Idaho.

 

[BOSCOE]

Yes she was up to her eyeballs. I sincerely hope LE has enough ducks in a row because it's not a guarantee guilty vote putting KK on the stand. You never know what a juror will think or what evidence they pick apart. That's all I'm saying.

JMHO

 

[MassGuy]

Yes she was up to her eyeballs. I sincerely hope LE has enough ducks in a row because it's not a guarantee guilty vote putting KK on the stand. You never know what a juror will think or what evidence they pick apart. That's all I'm saying.

JMHO

That’s true, but they really only need her to provide some clarity to the rest of the evidence.

They could bury this guy on his lies and deception alone.

His mistake was trying to sell this as a non crime, and that required him to maintain contact with a dead person.

Fortunately, this idiot didn’t realize that you can’t sell that story, if both phones are in the same place.

It’s rare that a case has this much incriminating digital evidence.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I think KK believes KB's body was in the tote. See AA linked below page 10 number 71.
The more I think about it, the more it makes the most sense that it is probably true however sad it is.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

Even with human body cremation in a professional crematorium, which I understand is at a higher temperature than a bonfire, the bones are not burned, they have to be ground into small pieces. The ones I saw were described by the worker at the crematorium as resembling "broken seashells." I think it was a pretty apt description. What would PF have done with the skeleton after everything else was burned? Would he have had the means to dissolve or crush it? If so, he would still have had to dispose of the liquid or fragments. As I mentioned in a previous post, Tara Grinstead's body was burned in a bonfire in an orchard over "days." I don't know if what didn't burn was ever described, or what, if anything, was done with the unburned remains. Is there any evidence PF kept the bonfire going for days? MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

Even with human body cremation in a professional crematorium, which I understand is at a higher temperature than a bonfire, the bones are not burned, they have to be ground into small pieces. The ones I saw were described by the worker at the crematorium as resembling "broken seashells." I think it was a pretty apt description. What would PF have done with the skeleton after everything else was burned? Would he have had the means to dissolve or crush it? If so, he would still have had to dispose of the liquid or fragments. As I mentioned in a previous post, Tara Grinstead's body was burned in a bonfire in an orchard over "days." I don't know if what didn't burn was ever described, or what, if anything, was done with the unburned remains. Is there any evidence PF kept the bonfire going for days? MOO.

Nope, we don’t know how long this fire went on, but it couldn’t have been more than several hours.

There may be quite a bit left of her at that landfill, if that’s where she is.

 

[ajaylee]

I really hope PF testifies, although I am doubtful he will. If not, I hope we get to see tapes of his interrogation.

I'm really curious to see how he spins his story to fit the indisputable facts while laying as much as possible of the blame off on KK.

One other point in the timeline that I find confusing: the last time KB's phone pinged was shortly after 5 PM on the 25th. KK was pretty close to home by that time. Working backwards from that ping, and allowing around 12 hours for the drive, that would mean she left Colorado very early on the morning of the 25th. If that's correct, then she did have time to watch the fire for 'hours', eat pizza, and take a pill for her headache. She even had time for a few hours of shuteye and access to a much-needed shower.

 

[MassGuy]

I really hope PF testifies, although I am doubtful he will. If not, I hope we get to see tapes of his interrogation.

I'm really curious to see how he spins his story to fit the indisputable facts while laying as much as possible of the blame off on KK.

One other point in the timeline that I find confusing: the last time KB's phone pinged was shortly after 5 PM on the 25th. KK was pretty close to home by that time. Working backwards from that ping, and allowing around 12 hours for the drive, that would mean she left Colorado very early on the morning of the 25th. If that's correct, then she did have time to watch the fire for 'hours', eat pizza, and take a pill for her headache. She even had time for a few hours of shuteye and access to a much-needed shower.

I can’t imagine this guy ever testifying, although it would hurt him so much that I would pay to see that.

Unfortunately, there was no interrogation, as PF lawyered up before he was able to be formally interviewed.

Her timeline certainly does seem to fit.

 

[ManicMuggle83]

I honestly dont know if I can post this here or where to post it if not!

Body found in metro Denver waste facility

 

[SandyQLS]

I need proof KK was not in Colorado at time of murder because at this point I believe she was. To have not committed or been there at the time of the murder she supposedly knows too much.

People are to believe she made all these trips with intent of committing murder and she wasn't present all of a sudden.

I've said it before this was a BAD deal. Jurors aren't always so willing to buy testimony. We have seen it over and over and been surprised with verdicts. I just want justice for Kelsey. Plain and simple.

I do wonder if over the months, PF and KK planned it so that would be each others' reasonable doubt. KK has her deal, her lawyer was with her for the 4.5 hour video testimony and will prep her and keep her on track at trial. KK will be the source of multiple reasonable doubts perhaps resulting in a hopelessly hung jury or even a Casey A. acquittal. It could be KK does her 3 years, PF spends 3 years in county jail, and that's it.